Top fermenting yeast identification.

[BrewingWisdom]

garbanzo beans? with a super duper spicy thick sauce? maybe cumin, turmeric, paprika, etc, etc...and really good!



then i'd think it's top fermenting....usually lager yeast aren't active enough for those signs.....

Ah got it . Those spicy roasted chicken peas are delicacy here . Newbie drinkers use it here as well to avoid harsh alcohol taste.
Ofcourse it's top fermenting because Angel yeast co said so.

 

[BrewingWisdom]

surprised it didn't paint your ceiling brown too!

My room ceiling you mean?

 

[bracconiere]

My room ceiling you mean?

it happens!

 

[BrewingWisdom]

it happens!

Don't worry its not the diarrhea I am fermenting.

 

[bracconiere]

Don't worry its not the diarrhea I am fermenting.

well now my good man/woman...are the one that has me confused...

 

[BrewingWisdom]

well now my good man/woman...are the one that has me confused...

Man here.

 

[IslandLizard]

if this doesn't suit you...try wine yeast...

You cannot use wine yeast to ferment (beer) wort because she cannot ferment higher sugars, such as those abundant in beer wort (e.g., maltose, maltotriose). They are left behind, unfermented. The resulting beer will be a cloying, sweet mess with low alcohol.

 

[VikeMan]

You cannot use wine yeast to ferment (beer) wort because she cannot ferment higher sugars, such as those abundant in beer wort (e.g., maltose, maltotriose). They are left behind, unfermented. The resulting beer will be a cloying, sweet mess with low alcohol.

This is true. Most wine strains are bad at using maltose and can't use maltotriose at all (with a notable exception of Lalvin K1V-1116).

I suspect @bracconiere didn't have this issue because he ginsu-knife's his wort into a glucose solution using glucoamylase.

 

[bracconiere]

I suspect @bracconiere didn't have this issue because he ginsu-knife's his wort into a glucose solution using glucoamylase.

could be very, very true.

 

[bwible]

could be very, very true.

So you’re making low calorie or gluten free beer?

 

[bracconiere]

So you’re making low calorie or gluten free beer?

technically it's high ABV for the SAME calories?

 

[McMullan]

technically it's high ABV for the SAME calories?

A little bit like a longer piece string the same length?

 

[bracconiere]

A little bit like a longer piece string the same length?

well kinda? but it's actually a shorter string with more calories.....because carbs have 4 calories a gram, but ethanol 7 a gram, but it take more of the carbs to make a gram of ethanol? and it's kinda a wash for actual energy production? but the ethanol has a:

 

[doug293cz]

well kinda? but it's actually a shorter string with more calories.....because carbs have 4 calories a gram, but ethanol 7 a gram, but it take more of the carbs to make a gram of ethanol? and it's kinda a wash for actual energy production? but the ethanol has a:

1 g of carbohydrate (assuming maltose) produces 176.04 / 342.30 = 0.5143 g of ethanol. so your 4 cal of carbohydrate becomes 7 cal/g * 0.5143 g = 3.6 cal of ethanol.

Brew on

 

[bracconiere]

1 g of carbohydrate (assuming maltose) produces 176.04 / 342.30 = 0.5143 g of ethanol. so your 4 cal of carbohydrate becomes 7 cal/g * 0.5143 g = 3.6 cal of ethanol.

Brew on

sounds about right? i lose about 2 calories a pour, but gain 2%ABV? which isn't by weight....

 

[BrewingWisdom]

it states that ale yeast make friends and clump before floccing? and lager yeast don't get along until after they're done with work? and a microscope isn't that hard core? no more so then a stir plate or something?

you've had better luck with baker's yeast then me then!

So after the primary fermentation when added the priming sugar that's what I am seeing in my bottles(image below). Does that krausen at the top meets your ale criteria?

 

[bracconiere]

So after the primary fermentation when added the priming sugar that's what I am seeing in my bottles(image below). Does that krausen at the top meets your ale criteria?

no? but someone who bottles in clear bottles will have to chime in on that... i'd say the yeast have allready 'budded' and now they're just carbonating your drinks? otherwise there would be brown rafts on top?

 

[dyqik]

If using traditional Yorkshire yeast, which are highly flocculant with a tendency to sit under and on top of the wort, i.e. not suspended in the wort, rousing promotes a better fermentation. By getting them back in the wort. The yeast trough automatically traps healthy yeast too, which makes harvesting the freshest yeast a complete doddle.

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Here's a video from the head brewery at Harvey's of Lewes, East Sussex, talking about when they got their house yeast from John Smith's brewery in Tadcaster, 67 years ago. In particular, the supply included the instructions to rouse the yeast after 24 hours.



They haven't cultured the yeast since, with all brews being pitched with top croppings from previous batches.

One of the two very similar strains in the house yeast blend is available as Sussex 1 from Brewlabs (via the Malt Miller). I've just roused my second batch of Sussex Best using it. I used a sanitized spoon though...

 

[Bassman2003]

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@McMullan - is this your setup? Very cool! One question - I am assuming the starting volume is completely in the sanke? The upper pot seems like it would trap too much yeast and not hold any wort leaving the batch with less yeast to do the work. I guess timing is important.

 

[McMullan]

@McMullan - is this your setup? Very cool! One question - I am assuming the starting volume is completely in the sanke? The upper pot seems like it would trap too much yeast and not hold any wort leaving the batch with less yeast to do the work. I guess timing is important.

Yes, the wort, in a traditional Yorkshire square system, is filled to just overflow the 'yeast hole' in the upper vessel (yeast trough). Much of the yeast that get trapped here get washed back into the wort during periodic recirculating of the fermenting wort. With so much yeast trapped at the end of fermentation, the beer is soon ready (almost bright) to be racked off to finish conditioning. Yes, timing is important. Start rousing when fermentation activity peaks, when CO2 limits any noticeable (undesirable) oxidation. Not to be confused with squares used at other traditional English breweries further south (of Yorkshire), and some in the US, of course, where one vessel is used and the yeast benefit from open fermentation in a vessel (wort) with a larger surface-to-volume ratio and what seems to be less vigorous rousing; and where the yeast need to be skimmed off the FV rather than from what more conveniently collects in the Yorkshire square's yeast trough automatically.

 

[McMullan]

I've just roused my second batch of Sussex Best using it.

Excellent. What attenuation did you get for the first batch? It's a beast once conditioned to ferment wort. Try serially repitching (by the cup load for a standard 5G batch), if you have time. Mash high at about >68C and pitch cool at about 17C.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for the info. I use the same kegmenter for ferments but in a medium sized wine fridge. So not much room above. Could this system be effective with a shallow yeast trough? I am looking to top crop hefeweizen yeast. I guess I could just grab cups of yeast with some sort of thief but of course, stainless hardware always captures the imagination!

 

[McMullan]

I think hefeweizen is more like a simpler open square, but round. Just one vessel. I'm not that familiar with how hefeweizen yeast behave, but I suspect you're better off just skimming from a single vessel. The Yorkshire square system only seems to work well with genuine top-cropping Yorkshire yeast strains, which respond quite vigorously to strong rousing. Even closely related strains, now more adapted to southern open squares, can go a bit 'flat' when recirculated Yorkshire style.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thanks for the input. I will look for a nice stainless ladle or wine thief etc... Or do you think something with small holes as to not catch the wort?

 

[dyqik]

Excellent. What attenuation did you get for the first batch? It's a beast once conditioned to ferment wort. Try serially repitching (by the cup load for a standard 5G batch), if you have time. Mash high at about >68C and pitch cool at about 17C.

I didn't pay too much attention to the first batch FG, but I think it went from 1.041 to 1.008.

The second batch has gone from 1.043 to 1.016 in the first 24 hours. This one differs in using a little less crystal and base malt, and adding half a pound of invert #3. Mash was at 154F/68C, and pitch was at 19C.

 

[Bassman2003]

@McMullan - Another question about your process if you would be so kind...

I was on a Zoom call with fellow brewers who have frozen or isotonic yeast programs or are just very knowledgeable about brewing/yeast and I shared your 'small vial stored at fridge temps' approach with the group. Their concern was mutation. Since you are more knowledgeable on this topic than I am, I will just simply ask if you have an opinion and any details on this topic?

Thank you.

 

[McMullan]

Mutations occur primarily during DNA replication, early in cell division. Not a lot of that going on in resting yeast cells stored at fridge temperature.

Freezing (and thawing) can, amongst other things, have a significant damaging effect on exposed mitochondrial genomes producing petit mutants. This can produce wide-scale mutation-like effects on behaviour of the nuclear genome, which mitochondrial genomes interact with at a high level. Why it’s considered good practice to QC brewer’s yeast on agar plates post thawing, to select healthy-looking colonies. The frequency of petit mutant colonies is strain specific (e.g, determined by the level of endogenous trehalose produced) and affected by procedure, biological integrity, cell tolerance, etc., but they can occur at pretty high frequencies. They grow in starters and fermentations, but not necessarily true to strain characteristics. It risks non-numerical under pitching, aberrant fermentations, funny of flavours, etc. I haven’t observed many genuine-looking petit mutants from samples stored in the fridge so far. It’s not so much mutation that’s the problem with storing yeast at pitching volumes or greater in the fridge, it’s the fact they lose vitality and die at a rate over time, soon becoming a risk for under pitching. Not really the case with small samples.

Consider brewer’s yeast remain viable in small samples in beer bottles kept cool in ship wrecks for >100 years.

 

[Bassman2003]

Thank you! Makes sense to me as the brewing activity with the cells is post-thaw, room temperature for all methods of storage. So as long as the cells are not contaminated, the same 'early cell division risk' applies to all attempts to propagate.

 

[McMullan]

So as long as the cells are not contaminated, the same 'early cell division risk' applies to all attempts to propagate.

Only if they’re all comparable (QC’d) to begin with.

 

[Bassman2003]

That is where I fall down as a yeast rancher. I agree with your approach to not make things complicated, but getting a microscope and checking the yeast does sound complicated to me. Not being able to QC the yeast seems counter productive at some level but we often go on anyway.