To hydrate or not Danstar Nottingham Yeast

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Hobo

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Hello, my first post.
Using Danstar Nottingham yeast in a Brewer's Best, Robust Porter kit as my first brew after many year's away from the hobby.

The printed kit instructions read: "Do not hydrate" the yeast. The yeast packet itself shows instruction diagrams and suggests hydrating the yeast? I'd assume Danstar knows best?

Also, is one packet of yeast (11g) sufficient for 5 gallons? I'm confused by some wording on the yeast packet about proportion.

Thanks in advanced!
 
some people rehydrate, some don't. 1 of the biggest debates here. personally, i do not rehydrate. how many packets depends on starting gravity. if it's 1.060 or less, 1 is fine. higher than that, use 2
 
IMO, rehydrate. Without question.

Other yeast brands and strains that are more hearty and can be pitched dry, but Danstar Nottingham is not one of them.
 
When I started out, I rehydrated on every batch. Then I thought, why not try it without rehydrating? My thought process was, how much difference is there between rehydrating in a small vessel with water and a bit of sugar and rehydrating in a larger vessel with water and a bit of sugar?

So, I pitched it dry, and I noticed no difference in the beer.

I have pitched dry Notty on many batches without a problem, and I don't even remember the last time I rehydrated a dry yeast.
 
Hobo said:
The printed kit instructions read: "Do not hydrate" the yeast. I think the kit guys just want to cut out a step in the process and reduce the chance of an infection

The yeast packet itself shows instruction diagrams and suggests hydrating the yeast? I'd assume Danstar knows best?
Click to expand...

Me...I like to rehydrate...if for no other reason, just to "proof" the yeast. I like knowing I'm pitching good yeast into my wort.
 
Agree with mismost. Rehydrating will tell you if you are pitching strong yeast. Also agree with lumpher - above or below 1060 is a good rule of thumb for 1 v. 2 packets.
 
Kit instructions try to be really simple so an inexperienced person can make beer more easily.

Reading the dry yeast websites they even said not to rehydrate for homebrewers, but gave rehydrating instructions for commercial products. They eventually changed their homebrewer instructions to include the rehydrating step.

Some very simple cell counts have shown time and again the you lose a very significant quantity of viable cells by not rehydrating. The simple explanation is that the stuff in wort can easily kill a cell by allowing stuff into the cell before it's had a chance to rehydrate and regulate what passes through it's cell wall. Cells can also burst from the difference in gravity. (There was a video of it happening on here somewhere recently...)

I occasionally pitch a packet straight in IF my gravity is really low compared to the cell count. Otherwise it's a really simple process to rehydrate with bottled spring water or better yet, sterilized canned water in tiny jars. Just open and pitch yeast into it and re-cap. 15 minutes later it's ready to go.
 
Notty is my favourite workhorse yeast and have had some great experiments come out of it. I hydrate mostly out of habit as it's easier to pour into a narrow carboy opening.

Have pitched it dry in the past and still had good batches turn out. Have heard that evidently hydrating wakes up the yeast a little better than dumping it straight into the wort for a sugarshock or some such thing.

Have no idea how true that is or the impact. But either way, would have to do some more uh "research" on that ;)

It doesn't take up any more time in my brew day to hydrate, can be done in between hops additions during the boil. Just boil the water and let cool to the 30-35C as stated on the packet before adding yeast, cover and let sit. Swirl it now and again to urge some lumps to settle out and you're good to go.

EDIT: Homercidal's explanation makes wayyyy more sense than mine ;)
 
Thanks for the replies and information, much appreciated!!
 
I was having trouble with my normal gravity brews stopping at around 1.020. I tried improving lots of things like aeration, rehydration method, dry pitch, pitching temperature, etc. I ended up getting a method that worked well, and now my normal gravity brews ferment down to about 1.009. Rehydration is part of the process. I could experiment further and find out if each change was really necessary, but I'm happy with what I'm doing - plan to stay with rehydration.
 
Rehydrate. It's less of a wild card whether you end up pitching an adequate cell count. When I didn't rehydrate, I've had beer that turns out nice and clean, but I've had beer turn out too estery at best, and solvent like at worst. After rehydrating, the results are much more consistent. It's also not that hard.

As for how many packets, I have started doing this: One rehydrated for less than .060, one rehydrated and one pitched dry for .070, and both rehydrated for more than .080. That certainly changes depending on the beer I am making and whether I think the difference of a second packet is worth the money.
 
Good point about proofing. I haven't had one that failed to ferment yet, but its possible.

Now, I'll double down on discouraged practices. I have harvested the dry pitched yeast using the no wash method from the sticky, and repitched the slurry for two generations with very good results.
 
Rehydrating gets you more viable cells into the wort. Dumping the dry yeast in may kill 50% of the yeast you pitch. That means that you will have to provide the conditions for the the fewer cells to reproduce and wait for them to make up for that fewer cells.

The item you need to provide for the yeast to multiply is oxygen so you aerate with whatever method is best for you. Then you have the lag time as the yeast multiplies to make up for that smaller number of cells. How long does it take for yeast to double their numbers? Only one cycle of reproduction is needed to double the numbers.
 
With Notty I pitch dry into my carboy. I have a house beer I do with Notty.

Brew this beer many many times, I ferment at 58f-60f.

I rehydrated once and noticed a taste difference, all previous were dry and to my liking.

I aerate my wort very well, there is at least 2 inches of foam. My yeast Sits on the foam until it is hydrated and heavy enough to fall and sink.

In my opinion this is much better than hydrating in water
 
I brewed Ed worts house ale that called for 1 pack of Notty yeast sprinkled on the wort. First and last time I will not rehydrate yeast. Fermented at 65. I had such a delayed fermentation and had tons of off flavors. The one and only bath I have ever poured down the drain.
 
gotbags-10 said:
I brewed Ed worts house ale that called for 1 pack of Notty yeast sprinkled on the wort. First and last time I will not rehydrate yeast. Fermented at 65. I had such a delayed fermentation and had tons of off flavors. The one and only bath I have ever poured down the drain.
Click to expand...

This was not due to dry pitching. 100 percent guarantee that.
I brew that same recipe I have pitched the following.

S05 hydrated. S05 dry.
Notty dry. I like to experiment.

My favorite batch was Notty dry
Fermented at 58f.

You cannot ferment Notty at 65f.
That's your problem.

My Notty batch was ultra clean, and very clear.

I use liquid and dry yeast, starters and rehydrated and pitch dry.
I don't advocate bad pratxices.
I just find Notty dry is a workhorse.

Now on a bigger beer I think hydrating might come into play, for dry yeast I use notty exclusively.

Everything else is liquid.
 
Often debated subject. Like most in homebrewing, the only answer is the one that works best for you. Yeast experts like Dr. Cone will say it's essential...

https://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/

On the other hand there have been blind taste tests done by good brewers (wish I could find some of those articles) that suggest it doesn't much matter.

The only thing I'm certain of is that you can make excellent beer using both methods.
 
soccerdad said:
:confused:

:confused:
Click to expand...

That's my opinion. I ferment notty at 58 or 60. I get to much character at anything over 63f.

It could be my setup isn't measuring temp as accurately as I would like.

But the 58 to 60 give me some lager characteristics it's very clean and I never get extremely vigorous fermentation.

Notty at 65f for example I would always blow off.
 
OK understood. I am usually 60 ambient which will settle the beer itself at 64 to 66 and fermentation is pretty vigorous. I always use a blow off tube with notty regardless.
 
Viability shmiability, I listened to the bbr byo experiment on yeast again and as the other experiment I posted it was inconclusive. Furthermore found a PDF of a Dutch homebrewer and beer competition judge who did a serious experiment and this was his conclusion. The bottom line imo based on test after test is that this step is not needed unless perhaps high gravity or other slight variation. Final gravity's, taste, variations have been so small. Feel free to prove me wrong with a true beer experiment. Dont waste your time with initial viability as that is higher but end result has not proven different.


Discussion / conclusion

For quite some years there is a debate amongst home brewers whether or not dry yeast should be hydrated before

pitching. Some even state that sprinkling dry yeast on wort would lead to a decrease in cell viability by 60 to

70%.

Based on the historic data desktop research and the experiments that were performed using different yeasts I

conclude that hydration of yeast is not needed to make a good beer. It does not lead to higher degrees of

fermentation. On the contrary, the historic data research showed that the average brewer obtained lower degrees

of fermentation upon hydration of dry yeast. The historic data research showed that for 9 out of 12 yeast

hydration lead to significant lower degrees of fermentation.

The experiments also showed that when hydration is carried out under exactly the same conditions that it useful

for some strains and not useful for other strains with respect to degrees of fermentation and taste. The

experiments showed that for the Safale US-05 there was a positive effect of hydration on the degree of

fermentation whereas the historic data research did not show a significant effect for the same yeast on the degree

of fermentation. This might indicate the importance of the “home brewer”effect.

The experiments did not show a significant effect of hydration temperatures of 27°C and 40°C on the degree of

fermentation for the Safale S-04. However the historic data research showed a significant lower degree of

fermentation upon hydration. This might be due to non-controlled hydration temperature, either be too low

(20°C) or too high (>40°C).

Based on the described data it is recommended not to hydrate dry yeast since this may cause risks when not

carried out in the proper way. Even when hydrating the yeast one might wonder what the benefit will be over the

extra effort and risk.
 
Just brewed a IIPA with a OG of 1.076 on Tuesday. I rehydrated 1pack of Notty and sprinkled 1pack on top for ****s and giggles. As of today the gravity is down to 1.016 and still active. Sample tasted great and I suspect this will be a fabulous beer. Pitched yeast @60* and placed the bucket in my cold room @58*. Temp on the bucket strip climbed to 66 on day 2 and currently sitting @62. No off flavors detected
 

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