To EZboil or not

[szwab]

I've been reading through the forum and have come across some very passionate responses supporting EZboil vs "regular" PIDs. I'm getting ready to convert to electric and build my eherms system but with no real life experience to compare it to I can't decide. My understanding is PIDs are more manual whil the EZboil are more automated but require more programming. Is that accurate? Also while I'm at it is it worth DIY'g or buying a kit or preassembled. Leaning toward buying components rather tan a kit. (pricing things out now). Also if anyone has a solid parts list I'd love to check it out.

 

[Bobby_M]

Any given PID that has SSR control outputs are going to come in two flavors; ones that only do temperature control and ones that do both temp control and are able to be put into manual pulsing mode (PWM). The former may be used for HLTs but the latter is required for a boil kettle. PIDs need their P, I and D values set to avoid oscillation at the temp set point and most PIDS have an auto-tune function that sets these values for you based on a test run of your system.

The EZboil platform is KIND OF a PID. That is, it's a temp controller that uses anticipation logic to avoid oscillation at the set point. You do not have control over the P,I and D values but it uses a simple overshoot correction setting that is quite easy to arrive at and just about works perfectly right out of the box. All EZboils have the required pulsing mode for boil control.

I've learned that it is extremely difficult to convey the advantages to the EZboil for people who have never had a controller or even to people who currently use a PID based controller. Duh, the controller works just fine and it does everything I need it to do. A lot of the functions you get out of the 1/16th DIN EZboil would require several other panel components to achieve.

1. It has timers built in for both the mashing and boiling phase.
2. It has an extremely short cycle time for element pulsing which makes for a very smooth, non pulsed boil even at lower settings.
3. It has a boil acceleration mode that runs the element at 100% output and then backs off to your predetermined boil power at whatever threshold temperature you wish (I use 209F which is just before boilover point).
4. It has a built in beeper/alarm to tell you when the set temp has been achieved or when the timer is over).
5. It has a very intuitive and responsive knob for setting values and controlling boil power, just like how a radio's volume control should be.
6. Models that start with 3xx can do delayed start and step mashing that previously could only be done with Arduino/mini computer controllers in the past (or with an extra timer module).

I personally prefer the DSPR-120 which is very user friendly and I have no need for the automatic step profiles.

There really is no list of pros and cons between the EZboil and other PIDs. There is nothing a PID can do that the EZboil can't. At best a MYPIN TD4 (NOT THE TA4) is about the cheapest functioning PID you can use and it's about half the price of a DSPR-120 but in the scheme of a full build, it's not even close to a factor.

 

[Lager_Goggles]

I can say this. I went EZboil and love the programming, etc.

I mean ya could do the same thing with a simple PID and for that matter as a developer I could even write something. But for the price and utility I'm satisfied.

 

[CodeSection]

@szwab, the above is a very good comparison between the EZBoil and PID. I have a DSPR310D and a DSPR300. As what has been mentioned, the DSPR120 is the basic model and does not allow you to perform step mashes.

Since you are beginning to learn about electric brewing and really do not know what features you may want or need in the future, I would recommend you buy the DSPR320 EZBoil since it will not be limited as the DSPR120 and will allow you to perform step mashes. For only a few dollars extra, it will keep your options open plus it has other features that you may use in the future. You won't outgrow the DSPR320 whereas you could very easily outgrow the DSPR120.

When I first started researching electric brewing, I never considered step mashes. Then after learning from others and reading various materials and posts, I routinely step mash. I bought the DSPR310D since that was the most recent feature filled EZBoil. I'm a believer in keeping options open so as to avoid outgrowing what I'm purchasing. In the end, I believe people spend more when they buy something cheaper only to find later they need something else and end up buying what they should have bought in the first place.

As you will see, it costs only a few dollars more for the DSPR320.....literally pennies when you consider how long you will be using it. Programing step mashes is a breeze. Obviously, there is a very small learning curve to get into the programing menu and set the step mash points. It is easier than programing a radio station in your car's stereo....it really is not that hard at all.

Below is additional information that will assist you with the features of each.

DSPR120 info....https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=560

DSPR320 info....https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=53&products_id=769

Good luck with your search!

 

[augiedoggy]

I first used to use mypin td4 pids in my panel... I switched out my rims pid with the eboil 320 and it does work better for controlling temps without any tuning. Sometimes I would wish I had my pid back though just because I was used to using it and the menu structure... Its kind of like giving a pc or android guy a Mac or Iphone in my mind. If I could do it all over again I might just get ezboils for everything or stick with pids for everything which would have made it simpler to remember... also the bells and whistles of the ezboil were really cool but I found I didnt use many of them after a while, again likely because I found myself fighting with the menus and trying to figure out what symbols and menu screens meant what.

I havent brewed at home in a while but I did put my panel in the closet and replaced both my home and built my brewpub panel to use brewcontrol which I find easier to use since I can use it for all my brewery operations and reconfigure it and add features as I want without having to build new panels or cut holes and replaced enclosures since it uses a touchscreen monitor. I think both types of setups have merit and advantages though depending on the system and how its being used.

 

[Bobby_M]

I kind of agree codesection, but. I step mash all the time. I just don't have the controller step through the temps. I have one step run with the timer set and then come back, change the temp and reset the timer. Essentially I've traded automation for a touch of simplicity. The pause/run concept on the 320 doesn't exist on the 120. I really like the single knob/button interface of the 120.

Whichever you go with, do yourself a favor and print out the instructions or at least the table that describes the menu system and parameter abbreviations. It's not a full color screen with full words so you have to know what you're looking at when you're learning how to use it.

 

[szwab]

Great info thanks for the replies. I was looking for real life/usage experience and got those! Still deciding but leaning towards the ezboils. and now the 320's make sense as well. One of my concerns is not needing to buy something else a year or so down the road. Good to know the ezboils can be used in a "dumbed" down way also.

 

[verboten]

I’ll be replacing the Mypin in my controller with an ezboil very soon. Controlling the boil is nearly impossible and I have to monitor it the whole time.

 

[gavinr]

Agree 100% with Bobby_M. The DSPR120 is an amazing tool for the money. My main requirement for a controller was ease of use with tight mash temp control and simple boil control. Simplicity is key for me. All the other bells and whistles I do not use - built-in audible timers and flashing alarms are often missed if one is not very close to the panel. I use a timer app on my Apple Watch (multitimer). Cranking up the dial for a step mash is no big deal. My only indulgent splurge in the panel was for a 1/16 DIN SYL-2802B meter, which lets me monitor two additional temperatures - very useful for HERMS mashing, and also counterflow chilling operations while whirlpooling or transferring to fermenter.

 

[craigmw]

I've used both, a standard PID controller on a friend's RIMS system and an EZ Boil DSPR320 on my new eBIAB system and I think both types have their merits. I like the fact that the EZ Boil just works and it is not necessary to run an autotune loop to get non-oscillating strike and mash temps. But I built my own system using primarily Auber and BrewHardware parts, and it uses the two alarm dry contacts on the DSPR320 to automate the pump and chiller on my system. It's programmed to pre-heat my strike water to my dough-in temp (usually for a protein rest) and then hold until I press the Run button and times down through that rest, raise the temp to the mash rest and hold that temp for a pre-set time (usually 60 minutes), raise the temp to 172 for mash out/sparge, hold for removing the bag/basket and then bring to a boil (preventing boil-overs as has been described) and hold for a set time (usually 1 hour). At 15 minutes prior to the end of the boil, it activates the pump again to sanitize the plate chiller and at the end of boil, activates the cold water solenoid to chill the wort down. My DIY panel includes two way selector switches to control the pump and solenoid as Auto (AUX1 = AL1 and AUX2 = AL2), Off or On, so I can manually control those circuits when desired.

Clearly, you don't need to go to that level of automation, but there is that possibility if you wish to. Programming the DSPR320 is not particularly intuitive, but it's not too bad once you understand the logic. I would say that the EZ Boil controllers are definitely worth considering, unless you want to control an induction plate. To regulate output, the EZ Boil cycles much faster than a typical PID controller, and that would likely not work well with induction plate circuitry. But if you plan to have it control a standard water heater element or Boil Coil, I think it has quite a few merits.

Auber sells a pre-built "Cube 2E" controller with the DSPR320 EZ Boil controller, so if you are not VERY familiar with electricity and electrical safety, it might be a good way to go.

 

[gavinr]

... At 15 minutes prior to the end of the boil, it activates the pump again to sanitize the plate chiller ...

I have had problems with both my Riptide and Chugger pumps cavitating while sending boiling wort through them. After talking with Bilchmann, I changed my process to sanitize the chiller by recirculating right after flameout for 2 minutes.

 

[craigmw]

I have had problems with both my Riptide and Chugger pumps cavitating while sending boiling wort through them. After talking with Bilchmann, I changed my process to sanitize the chiller by recirculating right after flameout for 2 minutes.

I get some cavitation too on my March 815-PL-C, but never enough to be problematic. I just keep it running for sanitation and then keep it on during chilling and it works great.

 

[szwab]

Starting to over think this and just need to decide. What combination would you go with? I'm currently thinking of 2 Ezboil DSPR320 I like their options and function. Even if I don't use them to their full potential the option is still there (just in case). I don't think it makes sense to go with 3 based on cost. Not doing an induction plate. Thinking of doing the SYL-2802B for the 3rd. Also thinking that it might make sense to stick with all EZboils. Thoughts are appreciated the more I think about it the more I'm confusing myself

 

[Jayjay1976]

I have one of the first generation EZ-Boil controllers, the DSPR-320 I believe, and I love it to pieces. There have been software updates developed in the time since I bought it, and though I could send it in for an update I haven't because I really like it just how it is. Right out of the box it was a great performer and pretty easy to learn; 40+ batches later I wouldn't consider brewing with anything else. As others have said, it does everything a PID can do plus a whole lot more.

 

[doug293cz]

Starting to over think this and just need to decide. What combination would you go with? I'm currently thinking of 2 Ezboil DSPR320 I like their options and function. Even if I don't use them to their full potential the option is still there (just in case). I don't think it makes sense to go with 3 based on cost. Not doing an induction plate. Thinking of doing the SYL-2802B for the 3rd. Also thinking that it might make sense to stick with all EZboils. Thoughts are appreciated the more I think about it the more I'm confusing myself

I would go with the SYL-2802B for additional temperature monitoring, and only use the EZBoils for for heating element control.

Brew on

 

[Bobby_M]

If you're building it as a 30 amp (one element at a time) setup there are three levels of complexity to consider:

1. One EZboil controller, One SSR, Two 2P contactors with a On/Off/On selector switch. One set of blocks is to trigger each contactor to decide which element HLT/BK is getting heat. Then you stack contacts and run the temp probes through the same switch. There is a chance you'll have to calibrate the probe settings in the EZboil to the HLT probe and the BK may read a degree or two off but that's not a big deal.

2. Two EZboils, One SSR, Two 2P contactors to select which vessel gets power. The only advantage to this setup is that each EZboil is fed with its own probe and you always know the vessel temps whether it's getting heat or not.

3. Same as #2 but you can add the dual temp readout unit if you want to watch the mash outgoing and incoming wort temps or maybe one of those would be deep in the core of the mash. I think this makes you feel more like a mad scientists more than anything. After a few batches, you'll realize that your system has a pretty consistent offset between the HLT temp and the mash core and you just know that.

 

[JayDog]

I built a 50 Amp controller from Auber. They sell a DIY Brew Buddy Herms kit. Make sure you buy the wiring kit from them if you go that route. It's my first time using the EZ boil. It has the 320 EZ Boil controllers. Also has the 2802 temp monitor. Honestly I struggled to set it up at first. But after playing with it, going through the menu's for a few hours. It's not that bad, I've only brewed 3 batches on my new system. Going through the menu and changing boil percentages or mash temps is a breeze. I haven't ventured past that. I haven't even tried setting alarms or setting the pumps to turn on automatically. I'm waiting for someone to put a video on YouTube first (Cough Cough, Bobby). I'm more of a learn by watching kind of guy. There is a video online that runs through the menu and setting up mash temps.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Sorry for the OT but I use an EZ-Boil in my control panel and I'm looking to add a second probe to stick into the mash; the existing probe on my kettle has a 3-pin connector while all I can seem to find online are 4-pin probes.

 

[JayDog]

https://www.auberins.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=64_68Is this what you’re looking for?

Sorry for the OT but I use an EZ-Boil in my control panel and I'm looking to add a second probe to stick into the mash; the existing probe on my kettle has a 3-pin connector while all I can seem to find online are 4-pin probes.

 

[Vale71]

Sorry for the OT but I use an EZ-Boil in my control panel and I'm looking to add a second probe to stick into the mash; the existing probe on my kettle has a 3-pin connector while all I can seem to find online are 4-pin probes.

3-pin probes are just 4-pin probes with one of the wires cut off. This means you can connect a 4-pin probe to a 3-pin unit, just pick out a wire (color does not matter) to leave unconnected and you're good to go.

 

[Brewbuzzard]

I use two ezboil 310c controllers in my panel supplied by a 60 amp GFCI breaker. I love my ezboils. Once you work with them they are simple.

 

[Bobby_M]

I haven't even tried setting alarms or setting the pumps to turn on automatically. I'm waiting for someone to put a video on YouTube first (Cough Cough, Bobby).

I'm a die hard DSPR-120 user. Even when I ordered a bunch of Auber's components to build a new wall mount cabinet I stuck with the 120. I fully understand the feature upgrade of the 320 but I have no desire to have my mash step through different temps during my absence. I also don't have a practical use for triggering pumps. You do give up simplicity with the 320 and while I understand everything in the user manual, I don't have the practical experience to explain it well.

 

[matt_m]

I've been running the DSPR-120 as well and am very happy with it. I intended to get the 320 but accidentally ordered the 120. I keep thinking about upgrading but honestly really don't have any reason to for my eBIAB system. I suspect I'd be too lazy to program the step sequences now that I'm used to the 120.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I've used the DSPR-120 for years, the only thing I wish was different is the number display, I liked the 00.0 format with my mypins, but the DSPR-120 only shows 00, I now also have Inkbirds to show some temps and they have the 00.0 format too so matching the probes up isn't perfect