Tip Draw Floating Dip Tube Issue

[pvpeacock]

TOP DRAW FLOATING DIP TUBE PROBLEM
https://www.williamsbrewing.com/Top-Draw-Beer-Pick-Up-Tube-P4643.aspx
Let me start by saying I love these floating dip tubes. This is particularly true since I started Spunding in kegs to naturally carbonate the beer and no longer have to worry about sediment. However, after outfitting 5 kegs, I am encountering a problem. When I tapped by last 2 kegs, all I got was CO2 coming out. When I opened the kegs, the flexible tubing was floating on the surface of the beer with the the end of the tube on its side. It was not hanging down in a "U" like in the picture below. Instead, the tubing was floating and hugging the sides of the keg. As a result, the open end of the tube connected to the floating ball was not submerged. So, when I opened the tap, I was just getting CO2 from the headspace.

To fix the problem, I use a sterilized SS spoon to submerge the tubing which fills it with beer and causes it to work like shown in the photo below. After that, I don't have any problems with the keg for as long as it lasts.

I transfer my beer from my fermenter to my keg through the beer out, floating dip tube. so I'm not sure why it would end up floating on the surface. In addition, I spund in the keg, so either transfer before fermentation is complete or I add sugar water to the keg before I close it up and transfer.. It is frustrating having to open the keg to submerge the tube because this defeats one of the purposes for spunding which is to reduce oxygen exposure. I have thought about getting SS washers to weigh the tube down, but question whether there might be a better way.

Given the wealth of knowledge and creativity here, I thought I would ask if any one else has had this problem and if anyone has any potential solutions. If I try washers, I will let you know the results. Thanks.

Ugggh, I can't believe I mis-typed the title and can't fix it now.

 

[day_trippr]

The fact that you were able to get the line to fully submerge with your sanitized spoon suggest the solution to the problem is to fill the keg through the floating line and make sure to stop when there's still beer flowing and the line remains full - and not blow the line out with CO2 after you've emptied your fermentor - which would put you back to square one...

Cheers!

 

[pvpeacock]

You may be on to something.

 

[govner1]

You should try the original Clear Beer Draft system. I’ve been using them for 6+ years without any issues.
You will need to replace the tubing after 4-5 years.

 

[Hoppy2bmerry]

I used the the one from Williams which is about half the price of clear beer, to serve a keg of mead at an event, since I didn’t have the proper brush for cleaning the s dip tube. I attached it to the short and filled the keg with the auto siphon. It worked fine, rode in the car a half hour to the event (kind of noisy) served with no issue.

 

[pvpeacock]

I think I solved my problem. I bought some 7/16" stainless steel nuts at the marine hardware store. I ran the tubing through the nut, inserted the metal tube with the float into the tubing and then slid the nut up and over the rubber tubing/metal tube as far as I could. It was a real tight fit. I may buy a 1/2" nut to see if it fits better.

I filled the keg with water and then lowered the empty rubber tube slowly into the top of the keg. While the tube floated on the top of the water, the nut submerged the metal tube below the surface. As a result, if I had it hooked up to a tap, I would expect the tube to fill with beer when I opened the tap, sinking the rest of the rubber tube. Hopefully it works when I try it for real.

 

[Gozie Boy]

I think I solved my problem. I bought some 7/16" stainless steel nuts at the marine hardware store. I ran the tubing through the nut, inserted the metal tube with the float into the tubing and then slid the nut up and over the rubber tubing/metal tube as far as I could. It was a real tight fit. I may buy a 1/2" nut to see if it fits better.

View attachment 639105

I filled the keg with water and then lowered the empty rubber tube slowly into the top of the keg. While the tube floated on the top of the water, the nut submerged the metal tube below the surface. As a result, if I had it hooked up to a tap, I would expect the tube to fill with beer when I opened the tap, sinking the rest of the rubber tube. Hopefully it works when I try it for real.

Hey PVP, just pinging to see how this worked out for you in beer service? Also, did you try the 1/2" nut, and if so, did that work better? Thanks.

 

[pvpeacock]

It works great and I now have these on all of my 5 gallon kegs -- I have 9. I tried the 1/2" nut, but it was too big.

 

[Gozie Boy]

Great, many thanks for the quick response, as I was wanting to pull the trigger on this today.

 

[Mackster]

I think I solved my problem. I bought some 7/16" stainless steel nuts at the marine hardware store. I ran the tubing through the nut, inserted the metal tube with the float into the tubing and then slid the nut up and over the rubber tubing/metal tube as far as I could. It was a real tight fit. I may buy a 1/2" nut to see if it fits better.

View attachment 639105

I filled the keg with water and then lowered the empty rubber tube slowly into the top of the keg. While the tube floated on the top of the water, the nut submerged the metal tube below the surface. As a result, if I had it hooked up to a tap, I would expect the tube to fill with beer when I opened the tap, sinking the rest of the rubber tube. Hopefully it works when I try it for real.

I recent bought a couple of William's dip tubes and experienced the same issue on the first keg. Luckily I found your post and some ss fittings laying around. cheers to you PVPeacock!

 

[Boobajoob]

I think I solved my problem. I bought some 7/16" stainless steel nuts at the marine hardware store. I ran the tubing through the nut, inserted the metal tube with the float into the tubing and then slid the nut up and over the rubber tubing/metal tube as far as I could. It was a real tight fit. I may buy a 1/2" nut to see if it fits better.

View attachment 639105

I filled the keg with water and then lowered the empty rubber tube slowly into the top of the keg. While the tube floated on the top of the water, the nut submerged the metal tube below the surface. As a result, if I had it hooked up to a tap, I would expect the tube to fill with beer when I opened the tap, sinking the rest of the rubber tube. Hopefully it works when I try it for real.

Thank you for this idea. Going to give it a crack here on my next brew. I recently ran into this problem in my all-rounder of the float sticking to the vessel wall on its side. I’m going to try the addition of the 7/16” nut and cut my tube a little shorter so I just long enough to reach the bottom on it’s own.

 

[akpingel]

Good idea with the nut! Ive had issues with what sounds like happened to Boobajoob in that mid-keg CO2 would dispense and not beer. shaking the keg eventually righted the situation but weighing the tube down might fix the problem too. Someone needs to invent a submarine dip tube that rises, falls and moves around in the keg so you can select exactly where to dispense from!

 

[Boobajoob]

Good idea with the nut! Ive had issues with what sounds like happened to Boobajoob in that mid-keg CO2 would dispense and not beer. shaking the keg eventually righted the situation but weighing the tube down might fix the problem too. Someone needs to invent a submarine dip tube that rises, falls and moves around in the keg so you can select exactly where to dispense from!

Maybe a magnetic bolt would work? Then you can try sliding a rare earth magnetic along the side of your keg so move it around?

 

[Beekeeper]

It works great and I now have these on all of my 5 gallon kegs -- I have 9. I tried the 1/2" nut, but it was too big.

I was having trouble locating SS nuts at an affordable quantity/price/shipping, so I re-purposed one of those idle long dip tubes, and made some weights from 2" (appox. 5cm) sections and linked them together using a short piece of tubing that I end up trimming from the supplied tubing length. Seems to do the job!

 

[jnecessary]

Anyone have a link to reliably food grade stainless nuts or weights for this? Stupidly ruined two batches where I tossed what wasn't stainless nuts into the filter on my floating dip tube. When I dumped them, the nuts were black , beer tastes metallic.

Currently I have a couple glass marbles in one but it has clogged the intake once and I had to open the keg to fix (yay, oxidation...kept gas flowing to hopefully help with that.

Looks like this:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/f...k8BK-9bWPgFE8zYObBewKbxoFwtH8FERoCEwoQAvD_BwE

 

[QTikiBrew]

Anyone have a link to reliably food grade stainless nuts or weights for this?

Looking for the same info.

I seem to recall I've seen some suggest using the swivel nut off of a barb connector, although some of those are just chromed.

 

[jnecessary]

A friend has since suggested ordering quality stainless from McMaster-Carr. I had a floating tube failure as my last keg approached 1 gallon or so left in the keg, it wouldn't stay submerged despite the marbles I had in the filter. I think they just didn't have enough weight. I'm going to see if a ball lock post from a spare keg will fit in the filter without a poppet it should be plenty heavy and food safe while not blocking the pickup tube.

 

[Bad Bubba]

Anyone have a link to reliably food grade stainless nuts or weights for this? Stupidly ruined two batches where I tossed what wasn't stainless nuts into the filter on my floating dip tube. When I dumped them, the nuts were black , beer tastes metallic.

Currently I have a couple glass marbles in one but it has clogged the intake once and I had to open the keg to fix (yay, oxidation...kept gas flowing to hopefully help with that.

Looks like this:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/f...k8BK-9bWPgFE8zYObBewKbxoFwtH8FERoCEwoQAvD_BwE

You should be able to use 316, 304, or 430 SS for beer which would be classified as a slightly acidic fluid. Lowes, Home Depot and Ace all carry Hillman SS nuts which Lowes describes as 316 SS.

 

[dwightr8]

Anyone have a link to reliably food grade stainless nuts or weights for this? Stupidly ruined two batches where I tossed what wasn't stainless nuts into the filter on my floating dip tube. When I dumped them, the nuts were black , beer tastes metallic.

Currently I have a couple glass marbles in one but it has clogged the intake once and I had to open the keg to fix (yay, oxidation...kept gas flowing to hopefully help with that.

Looks like this:
https://www.morebeer.com/products/f...k8BK-9bWPgFE8zYObBewKbxoFwtH8FERoCEwoQAvD_BwE

You might try Bolt Depot. I've dealt with them a fair bit and found the service to be excellent. Here's a link to a metric size nut (12mm) in 316 stainless that should be between 7/16" and 1/2":
https://www.boltdepot.com/Product-Details.aspx?product=23011

 

[yowzers]

I tried the Williams dip tubes as well and it floated without any weight added. This has been a common problem for years, and I can’t understand why the manufacturer has not added a little weight themselves. However, I switched my other kegs to the floating dip tubes from Ballandkeg and did not have the problem. There’s has more weight at the tip so they work right out of the box. Pretty similar other than that except you do have to trim off your dip tube.

 

[The_Antikveik]

Floating ‘dip tubes’ were invented in the UK years ago for casked ales, well before all these ‘alternatives’ appeared on the home-brew market. CaskWidge remain far more effective, in my experience.

 

[jnecessary]

You should be able to use 316, 304, or 430 SS for beer which would be classified as a slightly acidic fluid. Lowes, Home Depot and Ace all carry Hillman SS nuts which Lowes describes as 316 SS.

I went to my local ACE today, their Hillman SS nuts were stamped as 304, so they should be OK to use! Thanks for the tip. First up will be some dry January hop water (still looking for a perfect recipe, but gonna start with 2oz of something from the freezer and filtered water, cheap experiment!). Then I'm gonna brew a Pilsner and use the floating dip tube to eventually rack off to a purged keg for a guys weekend trip in March!

Thanks again!!

 

[odie]

I'm having the same issues with my floating dip tubes. Air getting sucked out.

Usually while filling a growler. What I think happens is that the headspace pressure drops and the surface starts to foam, lifting the float above the beer and is starts sucking foam. If I leave it alone a while I think the foam settles and the intake drops back below the surface. Annoying when mid fill. More often happens with higher carbed beers.

Sometimes I can flip the keg over and that will expel the air from the pickup.

But this time, no matter how long I leave the keg inverted, the hose will not expel the air. You would think, upside down, the float is going to pull the tubing straight and let any air escape and let beer back into the tubing.

frustrating for what should be a trouble free system.

 

[Spetz]

Maybe a magnetic bolt would work? Then you can try sliding a rare earth magnetic along the side of your keg so move it around?

This is such a great idea... I just got my first floating dip tube and immediately ran into this problem like everyone else, as i'd been expecting.
I just ran 3 kegs worth of water to test this magnet idea and it works a treat, combined with a stainless nut.

As day_tripper said above, the key to prevent this problem initially is to make sure the dip tube hose is full. I tested this and can confirm that without liquid inside, it makes the issue far worse since the hose just floats and pushes the inlet above the liquid and kinks itself. This doesn't eradicate the problem alone since the kinks and shape of the hose after filling still don't guarantee submersion of the inlet tube, you still have to make sure the end of the tube is submerged as much as possible... with a stainless nut, I just tried your idea with the magnet - it works brilliantly to kick things off and eradicates the potential for the tube to kink or sit at weird angles - you just pull the magnet down a few centimeters to submerge the end of the tube and the floating ball itself. Probably only required for the first 3-4 liters of beer, at which point the tube will be straight enough to not interfere with the submersion of the inlet.

The only negative I've found is that it wont completely empty a keg, I was left with about 400ml which isn't too bad if you're planning on cold crashing in that keg and moving it to another keg with a dip tube.

It also works as a beer level meter which...i'm not sure that i like, it's always a sad day when a keg finishes, i'd rather not know when that day was due.

 

[lablover]

This is such a great idea... I just got my first floating dip tube and immediately ran into this problem like everyone else, as i'd been expecting.
I just ran 3 kegs worth of water to test this magnet idea and it works a treat, combined with a stainless nut.

As day_tripper said above, the key to prevent this problem initially is to make sure the dip tube hose is full. I tested this and can confirm that without liquid inside, it makes the issue far worse since the hose just floats and pushes the inlet above the liquid and kinks itself. This doesn't eradicate the problem alone since the kinks and shape of the hose after filling still don't guarantee submersion of the inlet tube, you still have to make sure the end of the tube is submerged as much as possible... with a stainless nut, I just tried your idea with the magnet - it works brilliantly to kick things off and eradicates the potential for the tube to kink or sit at weird angles - you just pull the magnet down a few centimeters to submerge the end of the tube and the floating ball itself. Probably only required for the first 3-4 liters of beer, at which point the tube will be straight enough to not interfere with the submersion of the inlet.

The only negative I've found is that it wont completely empty a keg, I was left with about 400ml which isn't too bad if you're planning on cold crashing in that keg and moving it to another keg with a dip tube.

It also works as a beer level meter which...i'm not sure that i like, it's always a sad day when a keg finishes, i'd rather not know when that day was due.

Be careful with that, you may not have a stainless nut. Some stainless is slightly magnetic, but most good SS like 304 and 316 is non-magnetic. You may have a nut that is nickel coated carbon steel and would corrode in beer. Beer is pretty corrosive over time and you would have nickel dissolved in your drink. As an FYI, the Clear Beer system and the Ballandkeg system both do not need weight added to keep them submerged. They have plenty of weight as manufactured and the silicone tubing on those is a little heavier so I find they work great long term. The CB system is pretty expensive, but includes a screen and the Ballandkeg system is under $20. Both still work fine.

 

[Spetz]

Be careful with that, you may not have a stainless nut. Some stainless is slightly magnetic, but most good SS like 304 and 316 is non-magnetic. You may have a nut that is nickel coated carbon steel and would corrode in beer. Beer is pretty corrosive over time and you would have nickel dissolved in your drink. As an FYI, the Clear Beer system and the Ballandkeg system both do not need weight added to keep them submerged. They have plenty of weight as manufactured and the silicone tubing on those is a little heavier so I find they work great long term. The CB system is pretty expensive, but includes a screen and the Ballandkeg system is under $20. Both still work fine.

I was trying to find the 'edit post' button but realized there isn't one. But yes you're totally correct - I actually did the test initially with a non-stainless nut (intentionally) just to see if the process actually worked, then managed to find an actual stainless nut in the house and did the same again, after posting this, assuming it would just be the same. It's very slightly magnetic but not nearly enough to submerge the float.

 

[Boobajoob]

I was trying to find the 'edit post' button but realized there isn't one. But yes you're totally correct - I actually did the test initially with a non-stainless nut (intentionally) just to see if the process actually worked, then managed to find an actual stainless nut in the house and did the same again, after posting this, assuming it would just be the same. It's very slightly magnetic but not nearly enough to submerge the float.

Dang. So that option is off the table for you? I've had pretty good luck with just the bolt as long as you have some give between the bolt/end of the tube and the float

 

[Spetz]

Dang. So that option is off the table for you? I've had pretty good luck with just the bolt as long as you have some give between the bolt/end of the tube and the float

All good, I tried it with just the stainless nut, no magnet in the equation, and it seems to be just fine so far, enough to submerge the dip tube and give me liquid. Living in Indonesia, it's quite hard to find genuine SS 304 (let alone brewing equipment like fancy clear beer systems!) unless you really search around and test them with magnets first, which is why i'm not sure if i'll go ahead with this method at all...it's still slightly magnetic and considering it's gonna sit in my beer for weeks, I'll probably use my time to continue the search for ye olde genuine SS before I go ahead with it...dang

 

[GilSwillBasementBrews]

Just off the top of my head, could you vacuum seal a standard bolt and use that if wanting to go with a magnet to move it??

 

[pvpeacock]

Had an interested experience this weekend. I took 20 gallons (4 kegs) of homebrew to my son's father-son fraternity weekend at college. When I hooked up the second keg to my jockey box, all I got was CO2 coming out of the tap. I assumed that the floating dip tube hose was floating despite having a stainless nut on the hose. So, I depressurized the keg and opened the top to sink the hose (not too worried about oxidation given that the keg would be empty in a matter of a few hours). Despite the gush of foam coming out of the top, I reached in and discovered that the hose had somehow come off of the metal dip tube altogether. I quickly reconnected the floating tube, closed the keg, and we were back in business. I have no idea how the hose came off the metal dip tube in transit and never would have imagined this could happen. However, I now know that CO2 coming out of the keg instead of beer could be caused by this as well as a floating dip tube end.

 

[IslandLizard]

I have no idea how the hose came off the metal dip tube in transit and never would have imagined this could happen.

It jiggled off while in transit. Sloshing beer makes it slick, gravity and continual movement do the rest.

More importantly, how was the homebrew received by the crowd?

 

[pvpeacock]

Coincidentally, there was a beer festival in town this weekend. All the dads and sons who attended the beer festival said that my beer was better that 90% of the beer at the festival. Either that was true or they were too drunk to taste anymore. I'll just assume it was true.

 

[Beekeeper]

So what do most folks do (or plan to do) with all of these leftovers?

 

[jnecessary]

So what do most folks do (or plan to do) with all of these leftovers?

Ha! I keep some serving kegs in the case I want to transfer off the trub (making 10 gallon batches now) or take it on the go, which you can't do when you serve from the fermenting keg.