Timing my Dry Hopping & Cold Crashing

[Iowa Brewer]

Hey all,

About to dry-hop a NEIPA. I've read that dry hopping for 3-4days produces the wanted benefits while avoiding grassy off-flavors from dry hopping for too long.

How does cold crashing factor into this? If I dry hop for 4days and then cold crash for 2days, do I risk unwanted flavors?

Thanks!

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I have been following the dry hop recommendations of Scott Janish, doing a "soft crash" to 50°F then a 2 day dry hop before a 2 day hard crash and then kegging.

I'm getting all the character of a 4 day dry hop while cutting 2+ days out of each brew...

Cheers!

 

[IslandLizard]

fwiw, I have been following the dry hop recommendations of Scott Janish, doing a "soft crash" to 50°F then a 2 day dry hop before a 2 day hard crash and then kegging.

Do you agitate in some way, during the 2 days?
I do.

I'm getting all the character of a 4 day dry hop while cutting 2+ days out of each brew...

Have you done a side by side comparison?

 

[day_trippr]

I will admit I am relying on memory of the "baseline" character of my prior dry hopping routine, but honestly this is across numerous hop heavy recipes that I have brewed for many years and I feel well tuned to their character intensities.

I think I once read that 85% of the desirable hop character is extracted in the first 24 hours. I expect 48 hours would get close to the practical maximum.

I don't swirl as I ferment in glass and want to avoid disturbing the crashed yeast. Instead, I pulverize the pellets in a Cuisinart prior to adding to the carboys...

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

fwiw, I have been following the dry hop recommendations of Scott Janish, doing a "soft crash" to 50°F then a 2 day dry hop before a 2 day hard crash and then kegging.

I'm getting all the character of a 4 day dry hop while cutting 2+ days out of each brew...

Cheers!

Fantastic! Thanks, day_trippr!

 

[IslandLizard]

I think I once read that 85% of the desirable hop character is extracted in the first 24 hours.

Me thinks, rousing or another form of agitation, must be part of the process, certainly in larger vessels.
Larger breweries use a "Hop Gun" or similar equipment for dry hopping, after they've dropped the yeast.

I don't swirl as I ferment in glass and want to avoid disturbing the crashed yeast.

Understandable!
Transferring the beer to a keg (or other suitable closed vessel) for dry hopping would make agitation possible.

I pulverize the pellets in a Cuisinart prior to adding to the carboys...

That process won't make the compressed hop particles smaller, but you are exposing them to tons of air (oxygen).
Do you think spinning them in a food processor makes a difference vs. just dropping the pellets in whole? They'll fall apart as they soak up the beer, within a few (4-12?) hours.

 

[day_trippr]

If you are presuming an oxygen ravaged beer...

I'm away from home until Monday evening, but if I remember, I will post a picture of a freshly poured neipa that I kegged in February that will look like it was brewed yesterday...

Cheers!

 

[HM-2]

For big dry hops such as NEIPAs, I soft crash where possible and keep contact time down to 48 hours. I won't rouse as IME that tends to promote grassy flavours or aroma being lost due to off gassing (if not dry hopping under pressure). These days I tend to run a spunding valve fully open into a jar of chemisan and then turn it up to 5-8 PSI after I've dropped in my dry hopping charge and purged with carbon dioxide a couple of times.

I tend to drop most of my yeast out before I dry hop to avoid hop creep, especially when I can't soft crash. When done with the fermenter slightly above atmospheric pressure and with a CO2 purged collection jar I've seen no negative impact to shelf life indicative of oxygen exposure.

I would think that, in addition to massively increasing oxygen exposure, blending up hop pellets will cause the powder to float on the top of your beer and significantly reduce extraction. Case in point, the early generation cryo hop powder versus cryo pellets.

 

[day_trippr]

I would think that, in addition to massively increasing oxygen exposure, blending up hop pellets will cause the powder to float on the top of your beer and significantly reduce extraction. Case in point, the early generation cryo hop powder versus cryo pellets.

Experience matters. Powdered pellets don't float...

Cheers!

 

[Bobby_M]

This question starts pretty simple but the actual best practice seemingly has a pretty large flow chart of conditions leading to a final answer. I probably can't lay it all out in perfect detail, but some of the main followup questions are: Do you have:

1. precise temp control of your fermentation?
2. a fermenter that can accept a CO2 input?
3. a fermenter that can handle at least a few PSI of CO2 pressure?
4. access to Lupomax or Cryohops in the varieties you want to use for dry hopping?

Temp control comes into play for a few reasons. Whether you double dry hop or not, the ability to do a quick diacetyl rest and soft crash for the post ferment dry hop. This prevents the hop creep refermentation which can dry the beer out a bit more than planned, and worse generate diacetyl once again.

CO2/pressure capable fermenter has to do with the ability to perform the soft crash (and final cold crash) without sucking in oxygen (somewhat killing the whole purpose of the dry hop).

The reason I brought up cryo hops is that when all else fails, you can add it at the tail end of fermentation (to let outgoing CO2 to help purge oxygen) and you can let it soak a lot longer without adding grassy flavors due to the reduced vegetal matter.

 

[Iowa Brewer]

If you are presuming an oxygen ravaged beer...

I'm away from home until Monday evening, but if I remember, I will post a picture of a freshly poured neipa that I kegged in February that will look like it was brewed yesterday...

Cheers!

Thanks, day_trippr! If you get around to posting that photo, that'd be great!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

This question starts pretty simple but the actual best practice seemingly has a pretty large flow chart of conditions leading to a final answer. I probably can't lay it all out in perfect detail, but some of the main followup questions are: Do you have:

1. precise temp control of your fermentation?
2. a fermenter that can accept a CO2 input?
3. a fermenter that can handle at least a few PSI of CO2 pressure?
4. access to Lupomax or Cryohops in the varieties you want to use for dry hopping?

Temp control comes into play for a few reasons. Whether you double dry hop or not, the ability to do a quick diacetyl rest and soft crash for the post ferment dry hop. This prevents the hop creep refermentation which can dry the beer out a bit more than planned, and worse generate diacetyl once again.

CO2/pressure capable fermenter has to do with the ability to perform the soft crash (and final cold crash) without sucking in oxygen (somewhat killing the whole purpose of the dry hop).

The reason I brought up cryo hops is that when all else fails, you can add it at the tail end of fermentation (to let outgoing CO2 to help purge oxygen) and you can let it soak a lot longer without adding grassy flavors due to the reduced vegetal matter.

Thanks for this, Bobby!

1. I have precise temp control
2. My fermenter accepts CO2 input
3. My fermenter can handle 15psi
4. I don't have access to Lupomax or Cryohops for this batch

I've done a diacetyl rest and am in the middle of a soft-crash at 55F with about 5-7psi. My hops are already in the fermenter, held by magnets to the inside of lid. Tomorrow I'll remove the outside magnets and allow teh hop bag to drop into the beer. Then I plan to leave it for 2–3 days before cold crashing to 40F (I can't get lower with 5-6gal batches in my Spike CF10). Two days later, I keg. Does that sound like a good plan?

 

[day_trippr]

Thanks, day_trippr! If you get around to posting that photo, that'd be great!

Thanks for the reminder! Thread kinda went mute and I lost track.

So here's is my science experiment: brewed on February 11, kegged on March 3, tapped two weeks later.
On the left is a pour from March 18, and a pour from a couple days ago on the right.
Witness the power of ascorbic acid (and cold side O2 avoidance, of course)...

I think there's maybe two more pours left in that keg...

[edit] Though it doesn't really affect the point, I should note that the pour on the left was from the first of the two kegs from that same ten gallon batch while the pour on the right is about the last from the second keg...

Cheers!

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Thanks for the reminder! Thread kinda went mute and I lost track.

So here's is my science experiment: brewed on February 11, kegged on March 3, tapped two weeks later.
On the left is a pour from March 18, and a pour from a couple days ago on the right.
Witness the power of ascorbic acid (and cold side O2 avoidance, of course)...

View attachment 831423

I think there's maybe two more pours left in that keg...

[edit] Though it doesn't really affect the point, I should note that the pour on the left was from the first of the two kegs from that same ten gallon batch while the pour on the right is about the last from the second keg...

Cheers!

Fantastic! Thanks for the show. Amazing how it kept

 

[adyb]

Thanks for the reminder! Thread kinda went mute and I lost track.

So here's is my science experiment: brewed on February 11, kegged on March 3, tapped two weeks later.
On the left is a pour from March 18, and a pour from a couple days ago on the right.
Witness the power of ascorbic acid (and cold side O2 avoidance, of course)...

View attachment 831423

I think there's maybe two more pours left in that keg...

[edit] Though it doesn't really affect the point, I should note that the pour on the left was from the first of the two kegs from that same ten gallon batch while the pour on the right is about the last from the second keg...

Cheers!

Looks great, gow are you using absorbic acid in your process?

 

[day_trippr]

I dissolve 1 tsp of Ascorbic Acid powder in 30 ml of warm water, load it into a syringe, then inject it through the stem of a gas QD an instant after snapping it onto a keg pre-purged with fermentation CO2. Then I close-transfer the beer on top...

Cheers!

 

[redrocker652002]

Great thread. So, here is what I do. Once I am about 3 or so days away from packaging, either keg or bottle, I will add my dry hops. Unfortunately for me, it means opening the lid of the fermenter bucket and dropping in a sanitized hop bag with a couple of marbles in it to get it to sink. I keep the fermenting bucket in the original fermenting temp then a few days later use a gravity method to do a closed transfer into my keg. My question is, does it help to drop the temp of the fermenting fridge to say 50 after two days of dry hopping and then do the transfer after another two days?

 

[Iowa Brewer]

Great thread. So, here is what I do. Once I am about 3 or so days away from packaging, either keg or bottle, I will add my dry hops. Unfortunately for me, it means opening the lid of the fermenter bucket and dropping in a sanitized hop bag with a couple of marbles in it to get it to sink. I keep the fermenting bucket in the original fermenting temp then a few days later use a gravity method to do a closed transfer into my keg. My question is, does it help to drop the temp of the fermenting fridge to say 50 after two days of dry hopping and then do the transfer after another two days?

As far as I understand, its good to drop to 50F (50–60, depending on who you ask), to get the yeast all sleepy so they don't interact and create hop bite or produce diacetyl, which can be an issue. Cheers!

 

[YeastFeast]

Do you think spinning them in a food processor makes a difference vs. just dropping the pellets in whole? They'll fall apart as they soak up the beer, within a few (4-12?) hours.

Definitely makes a difference from what I’ve experienced. I also turn my pellets into powder.
I soft crash to 50F, pour the hop powder into my dry hopper, purge with co2, then drop it.
I used to do it with whole pellets and they dropped right to the bottom. Almost immediately. Then I went to hand crushing. Anything bigger than powder, yup, right to be the bottom. Powder is the only technique that works for me.
I leave in for 36-48 hours max and then dump them and often do a second charge.

 

[day_trippr]

^exactly^

In "The Before Times" when I dry hopped in the upper 60s°F for 3 or 4 days and often two rounds and could swirl the fermentors, I didn't think twice about dumping pellets right in. Some really dense pellets would sink straight to the bottom, but eventually with time and swirling they'd turn into mush just like the less dense pellets and all would be just fine.

But then I started doing the soft-crash to 50°F to drop the yeast, then dry hopping for just 48 hours and avoiding any swirling to keep the yeast dropped, there were still evidently solid pellets sitting on the bottom after two days, much to my chagrin. And the eventual beer reflected mediocre extract - it definitely had lost some zip.

SO...the very next batch I pulverized the pellets, dumped the powder straight in and let it eventually sink without any disturbances. Much more satisfying, and the result is indistinguishable from the old way...

Cheers!

 

[MerlynMagus]

I just dry hopped over the top (in a sanitized weighted bag) and purged the headspace instead of running CO2 through the beer itself from the bottom.

Hoping this works well. I've gotten some hop bite before and after reading this thread I think it was from stirring up the yeast and waking them up. I've never soft crashed before dry hopping either.

Thanks to all who posted ITT.

 

[kurds_2408]

^exactly^

In "The Before Times" when I dry hopped in the upper 60s°F for 3 or 4 days and often two rounds and could swirl the fermentors, I didn't think twice about dumping pellets right in. Some really dense pellets would sink straight to the bottom, but eventually with time and swirling they'd turn into mush just like the less dense pellets and all would be just fine.

But then I started doing the soft-crash to 50°F to drop the yeast, then dry hopping for just 48 hours and avoiding any swirling to keep the yeast dropped, there were still evidently solid pellets sitting on the bottom after two days, much to my chagrin. And the eventual beer reflected mediocre extract - it definitely had lost some zip.

SO...the very next batch I pulverized the pellets, dumped the powder straight in and let it eventually sink without any disturbances. Much more satisfying, and the result is indistinguishable from the old way...

Cheers!

I haven't done much dry hopping over my years brewing as I didn't used to like those types of beers much. So when I did was just using the old toss it in for a week through the lid method. Now my tastes and equipment have changed and I've got a hoppy beer I brewed Sunday I need to dry hop and want to try this method to make sure I get that dankness I want. I'm was wondering if I could get some more info on the whole process though? My beer is fermenting with WLP001 at 68 right now, purging a keg with fermentation, and I can add a few psi to my keg on cold crash. I've read up on these techniques but still need help.
1. What day do I start diacetyl rest? What temp do I raise to and over how many days?
2. What day to start soft crash and how fast do I drop to that temp?
3. How fast do I then do the cold crash after dry hop?

Thanks for the help.

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, my procedure:

- When the SG doesn't change over 3 days I start the diacetyl rest. I like 68°F for all the yeast strains I use, raise the 10 gallons of fermenting beer to that temperature quickly, and then leave it there for a couple/few days, before moving to the next step.

- Once I've gotten through the D-rest I immediately set up the fermentors for a soft crash (which means attaching bungs with CO2 hoses attached and the gas pressure set to ~0.4 psi) and set the BrewPi controller I use for 50°F beer temperature. It doesn't take more than a day to get 10 gallons of beer from 68F to 50°F in either of my fermentation fridges. At that point I quickly drop in the hops, and leave them there for 48 hours before the next step.

- After 48 hours I hard-crash down to 36°F, which takes a little over a day, and leave the beer there for two days minimum. Then keg sooner than later...

Cheers!

 

[YeastFeast]

Of course it depends on the yeast, but I raise my temp throughout the fermentation to the range of the yeast (usually 68º-72ºF over a 14 day period), I typically use a white labs "hazy" yeast that specifies 68-72ºF range. Not sure I'm really doing a "diacetyl rest"?
I start the soft crash right after at 55ºF for about 36 hours.
Then I almost always dry hop twice at 55ºF for 24-36 hours.
Finally, cold crash to 35ºF for 48 hours, then move to keg.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

fwiw, I have been following the dry hop recommendations of Scott Janish, doing a "soft crash" to 50°F then a 2 day dry hop before a 2 day hard crash and then kegging.

I'm getting all the character of a 4 day dry hop while cutting 2+ days out of each brew...

Cheers!

I always dry hopped at fermentation temps x 2 days (hop slurry, basically learned at Goose Island), then hard crashed and off the hops. But I am intrigued by your method, as you mentioned in the other thread. Is this in his book on hop science, "The New IPA?"

 

[day_trippr]

I read about it on line but I expect the content was essentially from The New IPA.
https://scottjanish.com/a-case-for-short-and-cool-dry-hopping/
Cheers!

 

[HM-2]

I read about it on line but I expect the content was essentially from The New IPA.
https://scottjanish.com/a-case-for-short-and-cool-dry-hopping/
Cheers!

It is basically verbatim from The New IPA.

It's also worth remembering choice of yeast might influence your dry hop regime. I use Lallemand Koln frequently in my hazies and do 1/3 of my dry hop at high krausen; Koln is reported to be a very biotransformative yeast and my experience has been that it throws some huge pineapple and stone fruit esters with a smaller biotransformation dry hop at usually day 2 that I don't get with a single DH after a soft crash and trub dump.

 

[AlcheMania]

Thanks for this, Bobby!

1. I have precise temp control
2. My fermenter accepts CO2 input
3. My fermenter can handle 15psi
4. I don't have access to Lupomax or Cryohops for this batch

I've done a diacetyl rest and am in the middle of a soft-crash at 55F with about 5-7psi. My hops are already in the fermenter, held by magnets to the inside of lid. Tomorrow I'll remove the outside magnets and allow teh hop bag to drop into the beer. Then I plan to leave it for 2–3 days before cold crashing to 40F (I can't get lower with 5-6gal batches in my Spike CF10). Two days later, I keg. Does that sound like a good plan?

Sounds so good im gonna try that myself. Ill be adding the hops n mags on day 3rd when krausens coming down but still safe to open keg fermentor. Drop hops at soft crash crash. Full crash 48 hrs later. Close transfer. Sas y sas.