Time to Debunk Guidelines on Mash Temperature Impact on Body?

[kanzimonson]

Thank you skw!

 

[hunter_le five]

A lot of old-school homebrewing practices have been debunked or updated over the years.

But many things haven't changed, and for good reason.

I swear, sometimes it seems like people are just trying to be controversial for the sake of controversy. Not everything we've learned about brewing is waiting to be debunked. Sometimes facts are facts.

 

[kanzimonson]

The problem in all of the talk about malty/sweet/attenuation/dryness is that we frequently say "If you're making a big beer and you want a lot of body, then mash high" but then we also say, "If you're making a Belgian beer, you want to make sure it fully attenuates so it's dry as possible, so mash low."

These two statements are a bit incongruous, or at least the second statement leads to people making the assumption that "high mash equals high finishing gravity equals sweeter." Damn language

 

[JustLooking]

Hm, my copy of "Yeast" says:

Originally Posted by White, Chris; Zainasheff, Jamil (2010-02-01). Yeast: The Practical Guide to Beer Fermentation
Higher mash temperatures do not develop more malt character or flavor, nor does it really result in much sweetness. The long-chain dextrins created at high mash temperatures are at most only very slightly sweet.

Hm, my copy of "Yeast" says:

Poor recipe formulation is responsible for many too sweet beers, but what do you look for when a trusted recipe turns out too sweet? Most often when a beer turns out overly sweet, it is an attenuation problem.

In other words there are residual sugars left in the beer.

Hm, that's what I said.

 

[kanzimonson]

Hm, my copy of "Yeast" says:
In other words there are residual sugars left in the beer.

Hm, that's what I said.

But in this case, they're referring to poor fermentation, not mash temperatures.

 

[JustLooking]

I stand by my statement that a higher finishing gravity does not definitively mean that a beer is sweeter.

OK. I cop to poor reading comprehension. Or maybe selective reading comprehension. My first take on this ignored the "does not definitively mean" part and mistakenly took it as higher finishing gravity never means that a beer is sweeter. Sorry for going off track.

 

[kanzimonson]

Awww, I wanted to argue more!

 

[JustLooking]

Awww, I wanted to argue more!

AG is better than extract!

 

[hunter_le five]

AG is better than extract!

 

[smizak]

AG is better than extract!

You must leave your beer in primary for 3 weeks!

 

[Rev2010]

Wow, this thread has gone from a topic about "only mashing between 148-152 PERIOD" to an argument about sweetness based upon the use of the term by what? 3 of us posters in here?

Why not get back to the ridiculousness of the original statement that dictates we only mash at that range *period*. Whether or not some of us do notice higher mash temps in some beers lead to a sweeter taste, others are discussing differences in mouthfeel or thickness to the beer - which I too also note mashing higher vs lower. As for sweetness, the last thing I will note since I've seen a porter mentioned not being sweet... I never said this applies to all grain bills. Of course the malt bill can make a dramatic difference. Roasted malts for example are well balanced with a little extra sweetness or fuller body to the beer. Mashed very low they can tend to be a bit too bitter but mash a little higher everything balances out quite smoothly. I think as brewers this is pretty obvious and common sense. The only point I was making was using *the same exact grain bill* in my time brewing using the same recipe I've noted that malt taste-wise (omitting the obvious alcohol attentuation/flavor differences) mashing lower produces a drier crisper beer with a thinner mouthfeel. Mashing higher produces a more malty, thicker mouthfeel, slightly sweeter tasting beer. And from a large amount of brewing books/texts I've read this seems to be pretty accurate. If you don't agree, sorry, not sure what else to say.


Rev.

 

[Brettomomyces]

I just made a super dank SNPA clone with a 153 mash, guess I messed up...

Anyone in new england that's ever had Ten Penny Ale (classic CT beer) already knows this is a goofy statement. I've been told that beer is made with a 158F mash, and you can really notice the affects in the ridiuclously good body the beer has.

 

[masonsjax]

I believe Lagunitas mashes many of their beers in the low 160s and we all know how great their stuff is.

 

[VladOfTrub]

There are two things in the make up of malt that need to be considered. They are amylose and amylopectin. Amylose is a single long chain of starch with one non reducing end. Amylopectin is a long chain of starch with many branches and many non reducing ends. When alpha and beta cannot reduce amylopectin, A-Limit and B-Limit Dextrin are left. Limit Dextrins are responsible for body and mouthfeel, so is protein.

The single conversion temperature used in the English method, limits formation of amylopectin. Because of limited formation of amylopectin, higher conversion temperatures won't necessarily create body and mouthfeel.

The body and mouthfeel in beer made with the English method partially comes from carried over protein. During aging, the protein drops out and the hops and mouthfeel go with it.
The mouth feel and body in beer brewed using the decoction method comes from Limit Dextrins. Protein gum is boiled out during the decoctions. That is part of the reason that beer brewed using the method has greater stability and shelf life, than beer brewed using the English method.

The various temperatures that are called ideal and the only temperatures a brewer needs to use, "period", came from the tri-decoction process. Brewers that use the tri-decoction or Schmitz method control enzymatic action by controlling temperature and mash pH. In both processes the mash is boiled. When mash is boiled, the hard starch will burst and amylopectin is released. The mash jells rapidly when it boils. The brewer takes advantage of the action by employing beta and alpha. When beta is active, amylopectin will be converted to maltose and B-limit dextrin. When alpha is active, non-fermentable sugar and A-Limit dextrin are formed.

So, the guy that wrote that a brewer only needs to use temperatures within a certain band, is correct. If he uses the decoction or step mash methods.