I think mash pH may have been a problem as well. I was talking to a local Brewer who uses our same water source and he mentioned a need for pH adjustment because our water has a high pH. I started with distilled for this brew because of the style, so that may have also been a factor.
German Pils Tiber's Premium Pils (1st Place German style Pilsner)
- Thread starter Tiber_Brew
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk:
OP
OP
The pH of your water has less to do with it than the alkalinity of your water. Water high in alkalinity will result in a higher mash pH. When starting with distilled water, I'd add a couple grams of calcium chloride and gypsum. With the acidulated malt, you should have a mash pH somewhere in the target zone (5.2-5.6)
I suggest using any one of the many free water chemistry calculators out there to help you reach your target pH. With little extra effort, you can get better efficiency and consistency.
Hope this helps,
TB
Tiber, I brewed this beer about 3 weeks ago. Was the first time that I attempted to correct my water and used the profile that I asked for your feedback on. I just cracked the keg last night and I was BLOWN AWAY. The beer has a lovely balance of hop and malt but a nice hop nose. This i the best beer I have made thus far and thank you very much for the recipe. This will always be in my house.
OP
OP
Glad it worked out for you. This beer is on tap at my house just about every day of the year.Cheers!
OP
OP
The amount of salt additions will depend on the volume of water being treated. You can use any one of the various free water calculators to help you reach the water profile that I suggest in the original recipe on page 1. This water calculator from Brewer's Friend is pretty easy to use, and a good place to start. Simply enter the volume of water you wish to treat, then enter your target ion levels. From there you can change the amounts of different salts to add to your water to reach the desired profile.
![Craft A Brew - Safale S-04 Dry Yeast - Fermentis - English Ale Dry Yeast - For English and American Ales and Hard Apple Ciders - Ingredients for Home Brewing - Beer Making Supplies - [1 Pack]](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/41fVGNh6JfL._SL500_.jpg)
Ok thank you, I check the calc you provided and for 16 gal of Spring water it says zero for additions? but -25 on HCO3. But shows no additons needed? using 100% bottled spring water
Ok, I found the water report for the spring water and it looks pretty good.
for some reason my OG came in quite low
1.35, not sure what happened there. will try to boil off some more... I did have a bit of excess water since I do eBIAB and have some losses there... but the others beers I have done have all came out right on or higher. I did do a step mash of 145 for 20 then 158 for 30 then 170 for 10. Thats really the only change I can think of...
View attachment Morganton-Spring-FP-Qtr-1-2014.pdf
Ok, I found the water report for the spring water and it looks pretty good.
for some reason my OG came in quite low
1.35, not sure what happened there. will try to boil off some more... I did have a bit of excess water since I do eBIAB and have some losses there... but the others beers I have done have all came out right on or higher. I did do a step mash of 145 for 20 then 158 for 30 then 170 for 10. Thats really the only change I can think of...View attachment Morganton-Spring-FP-Qtr-1-2014.pdf
OP
OP
Note that the water calculator that I linked to doesn't tell you how much of each salt to add. You have to enter in amounts to reach the calculated total ppm of your desired profile.
I'd also suggest using a complete recipe calculator to estimate your mash pH based on your malts, water profile, and acid(s) in the mash. I typically have to add some acid (I use either Lactic of Phosphoric) to bring the mash pH down to where I want it. This will also help with your extract efficiency.
I'd also suggest using a complete recipe calculator to estimate your mash pH based on your malts, water profile, and acid(s) in the mash. I typically have to add some acid (I use either Lactic of Phosphoric) to bring the mash pH down to where I want it. This will also help with your extract efficiency.
brewdorg
Member
Brewed this up today, my first lager. 10L batch, single step mash @ 64ºC and now fermenting at 10ºC. Will report back with taste notes in 6+ weeks! Thanks for the recipe.
brew703
Well-Known Member
Planning on brewing in a couple weeks. What would be an alternate bittering hop? Would magnum be a good choice?
OP
OP
I like bittering with German Magnum for its low cohumulone content and high alpha, so that'd work just fine for a Pils.
brewdorg
Member
So I've just polished off the last bottle of this batch. I have to say, I really really liked it and it was a great first venture into lager brewing. If I were to brew again, I think I would add the melanoidin malt though. The finished beer was incredibly crisp and clean but I felt it needed just a touch more sweetness and colour. I definitely think it would benefit from kegging too over bottle conditioning as the carbonation was important in the final impression (I managed to get it right thankfully).
daggers_nz
Well-Known Member
OP, did you use 1 pack of yeast or two with the 1gal starter?
OP
OP
Crisp and clean is the German way, but as a homebrewer, you can do it however you want. I felt that my batches with the melanoidin did not taste as authentic when compared to German imports, but it wasn't a bad beer by any means!
OP
OP
I believe I pitched one vial into the starter. I'd use a yeast starter calculator to find out your necessary volumes for your starter, since it will vary with the little details.
brew703
Well-Known Member
Brewing this one on Saturday. Looking forward to see how it turns out. Using 34/70 instead of liquid.
Surfanarchist
Active Member
- Joined
- Sep 4, 2015
- Messages
- 39
- Reaction score
- 2
I need to try this one.
First time brewing a lager! I stumbled upon this thread and it seemed to be the most straight forward for a first timer so I gave it a shot. I use Brewer's Friend for all of my recipes so I dropped this into my recipe builder and for 11 Gallons it called for 20lbs of Pilsner malt and I also ended up adding in 1lb of Melanoidin. I also used WLP800 for my yeast and stepped up one pack for 24hrs and just pitch another pack after brewing to get my cell count up. All went well but my efficiency was way high I assume because of the 90 min mash and my boil off increased too, probably because it was way warmer than the last time I brewed... Anyway I ended up with about 10 Gal of Imperial Pilsner sitting right around 7.2%. My sample from the other day was very tasty and I'm only less than 2 weeks in! Stepping up the temp now to 66 for the diacetyl rest for the next two weeks. Can't wait to get this baby in kegs! Cheers and thanks for the recipe!
OP
OP
A pound of melanoidin? That's quite a bit! I don't use any melanoidin for German Pils anymore, but it can fit for a Czech Pils. Speaking of, you used Czech Pils yeast for this, so what you'll have is an imperial Czech Pils of sorts. Regardless, let us know what you think when it's finished!
Did you target the water profile from the recipe, too?
Last edited:
I've never used Melanoidin before but I misread the recipe and a buddy told me to try it out since he used it in his pilsner. I actually really like the taste of it so far... We shall see how it ends up though! As for the WLP800... That was the only available yeast at my LHBS. I also didn't know it was Czech... But I love all Pilsners so that's OK!
As for water we just used tap water. I still need to get a test done for my local water supply since I just moved to NC 8 months ago. The water is still pretty soft though and quite similar to CT.
As for water we just used tap water. I still need to get a test done for my local water supply since I just moved to NC 8 months ago. The water is still pretty soft though and quite similar to CT.
shoengine
Whale Noun Member
I think I'm going to try this one this weekend (my fermenter is empty! The horror!). Any tips on the yeast starter? I think I have enough time to get the proper cell count. Do you propagate in the 48-50F range as well?
OP
OP
Prop the yeast at room temp, even for lager strains. The sole goal of a starter is to multiply cells, not to control fermentation flavors. It does help to pitch the yeast as close to wort temperature as possible to avoid shock, so I'd recommend chilling the starter prior to pitching in your cooled wort.
DassaGozza
New Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 3
- Reaction score
- 1
I just brewed two back to back German Pilsners, one with Fermentis 34/70 and one with White Labs 833 German Bock. With the first one I decided to use Jamil's hopping rates and timings, but I wanted to give it an extra kick of hop flavour with this second batch, so I stumbled upon your recipe.
I already had my hopping schedule written down, but this looked so tempting I decided to throw my brew sheet away
I'm really glad you shared this one and really enjoyed the rest of the thread. It's great to see a fellow homebrewer being so passionate
and informative about German lagers.
I'll report the results in a couple of weeks.
Prost!
I already had my hopping schedule written down, but this looked so tempting I decided to throw my brew sheet away
I'm really glad you shared this one and really enjoyed the rest of the thread. It's great to see a fellow homebrewer being so passionate
and informative about German lagers.
I'll report the results in a couple of weeks.
Prost!
Last edited:
OP
OP
Glad to help! Looking forward to your results.
I am working on getting the images back up from the recipe via a different host.
I am working on getting the images back up from the recipe via a different host.
Hey I brewed this up yesterday and hit all the gravity points and pitched at 59 degrees because I was short on time. Anyway I got to 54 degrees within the next few hours. I worked up 2wlp833 starters over the course of last week. Ultimately I pitched yeast cake from 16 liter combined starter at 59 degrees for 25 gallon batch. This is my second lager ever in 7 years of brewing. So this morning checked fermenter and there was oh so faint signs of fermentation maybe after 15 hours and temperatures was at 55. I don’t have my brew setup where I live so I can’t check on it until sometime tomorrow. Basically I’m asking for back up strategies if there still is not signs of fermentation since I’m not experienced with lagers. I’m ready to get dry yeast and pitch but am going to hold out atleast 2/3 days. Th last few years I have limited brew times so I brew as big of batches as possible. Any recommendations. I’m not overly concerned but am looking forward to drinking a tasty pils.
OP
OP
Sorry for my late reply. Looks like things worked out for you. I give lagers 3-4 days to show signs of active fermentation before thinking about backup. I pitch at around 50F, so it can take a while.
I don't brew a lot of lagers, maybe once a year, so I don't remember how they typically ferment. I have a German Pils (similar recipe, not exactly the same) in the primary at 50F now using Wyeast 2124. It took a couple of days to show airlock activity and has been a slow and steady fermentation, maybe a bubble every 2-3 seconds, even after 6-7 days after pitching. Does this sounds about right?
At what gravity should I up the temp to 54 and 60, or do you just go by days?
Thanks,
John
OP
OP
That's completely normal.
I just let it go about 2 weeks from first sign of yeast activity. If you give it another week or more at 60F, you'll clean that lager up nicely. I wouldn't concern yourself with gravity too much; just don't increase the temperature too early. My rule of thumb that has yet to fail me is 2 weeks at 48-49F, then 2 weeks at 60-62F, crash to 40F for 3 days, keg, carb, serve.
Last edited:
I'm going to brew this Saturday.
Could you please explain this?
"2 weeks @ 66F (includes diacetyl rest + warm conditioning + carbonation time)"
Do I just rest it at 66 or is there anything else I need to do? I think this means you have simplified the D rest but just wanted to make sure.
Also I'm doing a six gallon batch and Beersmith says I need 421 bil cells. If I do a 1.25 litre stir plate starter I get 220 bil. When I do a step up of the same amount does that double the cell count or are there other factors?
Could you please explain this?
"2 weeks @ 66F (includes diacetyl rest + warm conditioning + carbonation time)"
Do I just rest it at 66 or is there anything else I need to do? I think this means you have simplified the D rest but just wanted to make sure.
Also I'm doing a six gallon batch and Beersmith says I need 421 bil cells. If I do a 1.25 litre stir plate starter I get 220 bil. When I do a step up of the same amount does that double the cell count or are there other factors?
Last edited:
