Three Philosophers clone help

[MisterTipsy]

This is an old thread but I'll add to it for posterity. Stardate -310506 (used an online calculator).
Attempted to brew a Rare Vos clone 8 weeks ago. After 4 weeks primary with WLP510, and then 2 weeks secondary with Brett C I bottled. 2 weeks out, after bottling with dry Champagne yeast, my brew tastes faintly familiar to the 3P that I am now consuming. For those who read this, realize that getting a vial of WLP510, which comes out once yearly, is in your best interests. Over.

This is a really puzzling post.

Why are you using Brett C in a Rare Vos clone attempt?

Rare Vos and 3P aren't too similar in flavor. Did you use a Kriek in your Rare Vos clone attempt?

 

[JoeLindley]

It was an evolution kind of thing. WLP510 is the yeast for Orval and Rare Vos. So...I thought I would Brett-ify my Rare Vos clone and see if I came out somewhere around Orval. I gave up on Orval after a few weeks. As far as the flavor goes it was really amazing. Tremendously fruity with dark fruits, cocoa, etc. Not much Brett, as to be expected in short amount of time. I washed the yeast from secondary, thinking it would be primarily 510 from the taste and made a singel. I was surprised that the flavor of the singel/enkel was so mild. Since then, I have dry hopped a Chouffe clone with Citra hops and this has a great flavor. I think I will also dry hop my enkel with Citra and see what it is like. I am new to this stuff.

 

[MisterTipsy]

It was an evolution kind of thing. WLP510 is the yeast for Orval and Rare Vos. So...I thought I would Brett-ify my Rare Vos clone and see if I came out somewhere around Orval. I gave up on Orval after a few weeks. As far as the flavor goes it was really amazing. Tremendously fruity with dark fruits, cocoa, etc. Not much Brett, as to be expected in short amount of time. I washed the yeast from secondary, thinking it would be primarily 510 from the taste and made a singel. I was surprised that the flavor of the singel/enkel was so mild. Since then, I have dry hopped a Chouffe clone with Citra hops and this has a great flavor. I think I will also dry hop my enkel with Citra and see what it is like. I am new to this stuff.

Brett C produces a mild sour/rotten pineapple note, mostly in the aroma. I don't detect it in any of the beers ITT.

Orval uses Brett B which is a leathery/horsey aroma and flavor.

And L'Chouffe doesn't use Citra.

I admire your quest to duplicate stellar Belgians, but you are creating something quite different from the originals which I hope are all happy accidents.

 

[JoeLindley]

And L'Chouffe doesn't use Citra.

I admire your quest to duplicate stellar Belgians, but you are creating something quite different from the originals which I hope are all happy accidents.

I went with the Citra just to give it a try, like Duvel did in their 2012 Tripel Hop. It turned out great. I'll try for a straight L'Chouffe again.

 

[MisterTipsy]

I wasn't busting your chops either. Just trying to be accurate.

 

[JoeLindley]

Brett C produces a mild sour/rotten pineapple note, mostly in the aroma. I don't detect it in any of the beers ITT.

Orval uses Brett B which is a leathery/horsey aroma and flavor.

That was a typo on the Brett C. It was Wyeast 5112 Brett B. The enkel I'm making with the washed yeast of it smells/tastes slightly pineapplish, but I guess that's the difference between using it in primary and secondary.

Sorry to hijack this thread. Didn't mean to. Back to the WLP510. That's the one to get when you can for 3P.

 

[tedclev]

Not sure how we stepped over to Brett on this thread... but just wanted to clarify a couple things. First of all, 3P doesn't use Lindemans, they use Liefmans Kriek. For hops, I can't detect the Columbus/Sterling profile at all, and Ommegang says they use Spalt Select and Styrian Goldings. Gonna brew this soon. I'll let you know this winter how it is.

 

[redbone]

Like so many threads that start off good... no results... hijacked...nothing.

 

[eulipion2]

Like so many threads that start off good... no results... hijacked...nothing.

Unfortunately unemployment has dashed my brewing plans at the moment, but I promise you this: If/when I procure employment, this will be my celebratory "Not going to die in the gutter" brew!

 

[redbone]

So much for "Hope and Change" eh? Good luck out there. I know it can be difficult to get a job right now. I was surely thinking that between 2010 and now that someone had tempted to have brewed this. I guess not.

 

[eulipion2]

I know, right? Two years, no brew. I kept coming up with other (cheaper, easier) things to brew. Honestly I think I was trying to save enough bottles to cork and cage, but then I'd need a corker.

Besides, this gives me the opportunity to research the current recipe.

 

[Hamsterbite]

Why wait to add the sugar? And why not more sugar so you can hit your target ABV (which is about 10% if I remember correctly).

I beleive it's a technique used to maximize overall attenuation on HG beers.

I seem to recall this being discussed durring one of the brew strong high gravity episodes...can't remember which guest brewer was talking it up, but the idea is to hold off because simple sugars are easiest for yeast to consume, and those will go first if given the choice. You want to give them the toughest part of the job early on, so they don't run out of steam.

Also, mentioned on part 2 of the BNA 2011 awards I think. Forget who again, but one of the brewers nominated for an award was talking about this trick as a way to get Saison's to finish very low and dry.

 

[rrayriver]

I am currently brewing the Three Philosophers. I have the quad in the secondary and am adding sterilized (not boiled) cherries to condition for a few weeks. My plan is to add Lindeman's Kriek to the last portion in the bottling bucket, just in case I get exploding bottles. I may also experiment with different levels of bottling sugar due to the sugar present in the Kriek and maybe some in the cherries. I dont expect it to taste just like the Three Thinkers, but it cant be bad. Maybe I will give an update in a couple months, being that this clone is such a mystery.

 

[buzzny]

I am currently brewing the Three Philosophers. I have the quad in the secondary and am adding sterilized (not boiled) cherries to condition for a few weeks. My plan is to add Lindeman's Kriek to the last portion in the bottling bucket, just in case I get exploding bottles. I may also experiment with different levels of bottling sugar due to the sugar present in the Kriek and maybe some in the cherries. I dont expect it to taste just like the Three Thinkers, but it cant be bad. Maybe I will give an update in a couple months, being that this clone is such a mystery.

How'd it turn out?

 

[EverydayDiesel]

I made this recipe which is a 3 phils clone
http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/three-philosophers-clone-1

It is my second beer to make so I am unsure how good it will be but I am looking foward to it.

How close does that recipe compare to the one on here?

 

[eulipion2]

That's my recipe. Didn't realize I'd made it public. Oops! It's more or less the same recipe, just adjusted to try to match the proportions in the book.

After almost four years, this one will finally be brewed THIS SUMMER! Hooray!

 

[EverydayDiesel]

That's my recipe. Didn't realize I'd made it public. Oops! It's more or less the same recipe, just adjusted to try to match the proportions in the book.

After almost four years, this one will finally be brewed THIS SUMMER! Hooray!

Nice! Thanks For Sharing!

So when do I transfer to the second fermentation bucket?

 

[eulipion2]

Nice! Thanks For Sharing!

So when do I transfer to the second fermentation bucket?

Honestly, I've pretty much given up on secondary. Most of my beers are 3 weeks in primary, then bottle. For this one, maybe 4 weeks fermenting around 75 F, then bottle or keg.

 

[MikePote]

That's my recipe. Didn't realize I'd made it public. Oops! It's more or less the same recipe, just adjusted to try to match the proportions in the book.

After almost four years, this one will finally be brewed THIS SUMMER! Hooray!

Did you brew it yet? Certainly you found a job a couple years ago and had reason to celebrate. Plus this year its summer!

 

[eulipion2]

It certainly is summer, and I've been planning a quad. Perhaps I'll do this one. For whatever reason I always forget about this one. Really need to pay closer attention when I make off-the-cuff "promises." Of course, I have the grains for the one I was planning, so we'll see.

EDIT: The biggest problem I'm having brewing this recipe is that my LHBS sells by the pound for all specialty grains. If I brew this recipe, I'll have a lot of leftover grain. My other recipe is much simpler: pils, Belgian pale, and D-180 syrup.

 

[MikePote]

What is the new recipe? What do you think about brewing it and adding the kreik as a three philosophers "inspired" brew? I also have an issue spending a bunch of money on specialty grains and having half or more of them left over so I understand the logic behind not brewing it. Id love to do a good quad and try adding the kreik. The malty, Belgian, cherry, is fantastic and even if not a clone of Three Philos I think it would be great.

 

[eulipion2]

What is the new recipe?

It's a recipe out of BeerAdvocate from a few years ago called "Simplicity at Noon."

11 lb Belgian Pils
5 lb Belgian Pale
2 lb D-180 (or D2 depending on brand) candi syrup

.75 oz Magnum (14%AA) - 60 min

WLP535 Abbey Ale or Wyeast 3787 Trappist High Gravity

Mash 150 for 60 min
It doesn't specify boil time, but I'd go with 90 minutes.

What do you think about brewing it and adding the kreik as a three philosophers "inspired" brew?

I think I'd split the batch, do 2.5 gallons straight, 2.5 with kriek. That way I can see which I prefer.

 

[adam01]

That recipe was identified here as a Westvleteren 12 clone.

 

[eulipion2]

Yup. The intent of the BA article was that you don't need complex grain bills to make complex beer, citing the rumor that the brewers at Westvleteren use a recipe similar to the one above. Since I'm a big fan of simple, I've been eyeing this one instead of the Three Philosophers clone. But what MikePote was asking is, could you add kriek to it to make a Three Philosophers 'inspired' beer, not a clone with that recipe.

 

[sikkingj]

Has anyone made this beer?

I'm just finishing a 3P and want to put this into my brew schedule.

Thanks.


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