Three Month Hiatus: Suggestions for long fermenation

[zahmzwickler]

Hi All,

I am about to hit the road for three months. I am looking for some suggestions on starting a batch then leaving it in a temperature controlled refrigerator for three months until I return. Any suggestions.

5 Gallon: All or partial grain, fruit, whatever?

 

[d3track]

Good time for lagers or aging big beers

 

[Chadwick]

Do a big barleywine. Get one of those nifty controllers where you can adjust the settings online. After the first 4 weeks of fermentation you can start slipping the temp up into the low 70's to help with attenuation.

 

[giraffe]

Three months on the yeast in the primary? Well ive heard 6-8 weeks with success, but I dont know anyone I trust thats gone 12 weeks. But, regardless, go high gravity and malty. Quad, beire de garde, old ale, barleywine, RIS, weizenbock; A doppelbock might work, but id want more temp control then set once and forget.

 

[zahmzwickler]

Thanks for the response.

I was assuming a big beer, I will have limited temperture control ex. ask the wife to read the thermomter and twist the Johnson dial. Although I'd prefer that she didn't have to open the lid.

I've never tried a sour, would this extended time be of any value?

 

[Chadwick]

Three months on the yeast in the primary? Well ive heard 6-8 weeks with success, but I dont know anyone I trust thats gone 12 weeks. But, regardless, go high gravity and malty. Quad, beire de garde, old ale, barleywine, RIS, weizenbock; A doppelbock might work, but id want more temp control then set once and forget.

I did a barleywine that I put in the primary in August of last year. It stayed there until I bottled it this January. It tastes wonderful.

 

[brewmax25]

A sour would be a great idea! A nice saison fermented with some brett or even a brett Ipa. You may loose some hop flavors but the brett should shine nicely and when you get back dry hop it to freshen it up a bit! I like the Brett drei strain. Very fruity, lots of tropical fruit.

A good sour brown (Oud bruin) with the Roselare blend from wyeast would also be nice. Throw in some oak cubes to give it a real authentic flavor.

 

[zahmzwickler]

Ha! I spelled fermentation wrong in the post, so if you have any suggestions for Fermenation I'd like those as well?

 

[cernst151]

I'd do a sour. They benefit from long aging. I'm reading the book American Sour and he points out how Brett loves working on the byproducts from the autolysis (death) of your primary yeasts.

Go with very low hops, and just toss in the primary yeast and Brett at the same time, possibly Lacto too, though leaving lacto to sit that long might make it too sour. You might want to add that later. As your primary yeast finishes it's work and dies off it will release chemicals that the Brett can get to work on. Maybe throw in some maltodextrine so you're left with some long chain starches that you can feed to the Lacto when you get home. Give it another month or two on that and then decide whether you want to add fruit or something to it.

 

[zahmzwickler]

brewmax25 & cernst151

I like the idea of trying a sour because I feel the time away lends itself to experimentation. Any common pit falls that I should avoid? Would a high starting gravity be benificial or necessary? I could have my assistant make additions along the way in needed?

Thanks again, I ship out March 17th so I'm eager to get started.

 

[zahmzwickler]

Sorry again for all the typos, my fingers must be drunk.

 

[brdb]

brewmax25 & cernst151

I like the idea of trying a sour because I feel the time away lends itself to experimentation. Any common pit falls that I should avoid? Would a high starting gravity be benificial or necessary? I could have my assistant make additions along the way in needed?

Thanks again, I ship out March 17th so I'm eager to get started.

If you are going to use lacto, keep the IBU levels down (I'd recommend <10). If you are brewing all grain, mash high, that way after your sach strain is done fermenting, there are some longer chain sugars left behind for the brett and bacteria to munch on. Also, regardless of what type of beer you make, have your wife check the sanitizer/vodka in your airlock from time to time to make sure it doesn't dry out.

 

[zahmzwickler]

If you are going to use lacto, keep the IBU levels down (I'd recommend <10). If you are brewing all grain, mash high, that way after your sach strain is done fermenting, there are some longer chain sugars left behind for the brett and bacteria to munch on. Also, regardless of what type of beer you make, have your wife check the sanitizer/vodka in your airlock from time to time to make sure it doesn't dry out.

Thanks, I am researching now. I am a bit confused about the pitch, it looks like I could pitch the yeast and the bugs before I leave and not have my wife bothered by those additions? The low alpha acid makes sense for the lacto, should I be concerned about alcohol tolerance? Also, do you age your hops?

thanks for the post!

 

[brdb]

Thanks, I am researching now. I am a bit confused about the pitch, it looks like I could pitch the yeast and the bugs before I leave and not have my wife bothered by those additions? The low alpha acid makes sense for the lacto, should I be concerned about alcohol tolerance? Also, do you age your hops?

thanks for the post!

Some prefer to do a clean fermentation in primary (sach only, no brett/bacteria) and then pitch the bugs in secondary. Some just pitch everything at once, I am in this camp. What kind of OG are you aiming for and what kind of yeast/bacteria do you plan on using? It is hard to say whether alcohol tolerance should be a concern until you know what you're shooting for. I do not age my hops, simply keep the IBUs low and let the microbes/malt bill create the characteristic flavors.

 

[zahmzwickler]

Some prefer to do a clean fermentation in primary (sach only, no brett/bacteria) and then pitch the bugs in secondary. Some just pitch everything at once, I am in this camp. What kind of OG are you aiming for and what kind of yeast/bacteria do you plan on using? It is hard to say whether alcohol tolerance should be a concern until you know what you're shooting for. I do not age my hops, simply keep the IBUs low and let the microbes/malt bill create the characteristic flavors.

Honestly, I haven't opened BeerSmith yet? I'd assume 1.060, no clue to yeast and bacteria Brett Drei was mentioned although I'll be researching that as well. This will be my first foray in this world. The idea is I have to set it and run off hoping for positive results, after the three months I can decide what to do with it?

 

[brdb]

Honestly, I haven't opened BeerSmith yet? I'd assume 1.060, no clue to yeast and bacteria Brett Drei was mentioned although I'll be researching that as well. This will be my first foray in this world. The idea is I have to set it and run off hoping for positive results, after the three months I can decide what to do with it?

My recommendation would be a Flanders Red or Oud Bruin (Jamil's recipes are solid references) fermented with WLP665 or Wyeast Roeselare, although almost any sour will take longer than 3 months.

 

[cernst151]

brewmax25 & cernst151

I like the idea of trying a sour because I feel the time away lends itself to experimentation. Any common pit falls that I should avoid? Would a high starting gravity be benificial or necessary? I could have my assistant make additions along the way in needed?

Thanks again, I ship out March 17th so I'm eager to get started.

I think brdb is spot on. Keep the IBU's low and either mash high or add maltodextrine or lactose to add unfermentables for your Brett or Lacto. I'd say go midrange on the alcohol content. If you go too high the lacto may not be able to develop. It's not as alcohol resistant as brewers yeasts.

Here's a BIG thing I almost forgot to mention. DO NOT ferment a sour in a plastic bucket unless you want that to be your sour bucket forever. Only ferment sours in glass or the microbes can permanently infect your plastic bucket and make all future beers sour.

Don't rush it either. 3 months may not be long enough. I think my last sour took 6 months start to finish, including a month on the strawberries and rhubarb. I didn't age my hops but I've heard it can really add a lot to the flavor. If you've got the time leave them out in the open air for a month or two in the warmest part of your house.

I'm not super experienced at this but I'd pitch your brewers yeast (whichever strain you want) and Brett at the beginning and wait until you get home to add the lacto. I suspect that if you pitch the lacto up front the 3 full months on it might make it too sour. Alternatively, you can do what we did once which was to skip the lacto and just add lactic acid to taste at bottling time.

 

[zahmzwickler]

I think brdb is spot on. Keep the IBU's low and either mash high or add maltodextrine or lactose to add unfermentables for your Brett or Lacto. I'd say go midrange on the alcohol content. If you go too high the lacto may not be able to develop. It's not as alcohol resistant as brewers yeasts.

Here's a BIG thing I almost forgot to mention. DO NOT ferment a sour in a plastic bucket unless you want that to be your sour bucket forever. Only ferment sours in glass or the microbes can permanently infect your plastic bucket and make all future beers sour.

Don't rush it either. 3 months may not be long enough. I think my last sour took 6 months start to finish, including a month on the strawberries and rhubarb. I didn't age my hops but I've heard it can really add a lot to the flavor. If you've got the time leave them out in the open air for a month or two in the warmest part of your house.

I'm not super experienced at this but I'd pitch your brewers yeast (whichever strain you want) and Brett at the beginning and wait until you get home to add the lacto. I suspect that if you pitch the lacto up front the 3 full months on it might make it too sour. Alternatively, you can do what we did once which was to skip the lacto and just add lactic acid to taste at bottling time.

Thanks for this tip regarding the plastic, that makes a lot of sense. I guess that goes for the racking cane, bung and everything else plastic.

When you did add your fruit addition, after final gravity?

I have no problem waiting six months, did you age six months in the carboy prior to bottling?

I was thinking about a simple grain bill although mashing higher and a 90min boil. Pilsner, wheat possibly oats, with Saaz?

 

[zahmzwickler]

My recommendation would be a Flanders Red or Oud Bruin (Jamil's recipes are solid references) fermented with WLP665 or Wyeast Roeselare, although almost any sour will take longer than 3 months.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into those. Are there any common pitfalls I should be aware of? How do you feel about pitching lacto early?

 

[cernst151]

Thanks for this tip regarding the plastic, that makes a lot of sense. I guess that goes for the racking cane, bung and everything else plastic.

When you did add your fruit addition, after final gravity?

I have no problem waiting six months, did you age six months in the carboy prior to bottling?

I was thinking about a simple grain bill although mashing higher and a 90min boil. Pilsner, wheat possibly oats, with Saaz?

Do you really use a racking cane? I highly recommend an auto siphon. So much easier! I didn't worry too much about the siphon and hoses and bottling bucket because the beer was in contact so briefly with each. I definitely soaked them in sanitizer more thoroughly than I usually would but I don't think you need a whole extra set of everything else.

I did a primary, racked onto fruit in the secondary then racked into a new carboy for a few weeks in a tertiary to let the fruit junk settle out. You definitely lose some of your beer in all this, I think I bottled under 4 gallons, but it was so good. I put mine on 7.5 lbs of strawberries and 2.5 lbs of rhubarb but if I do that one again I'd add more rhubarb.

I read in American Sour that Brett can make unpleasant flavors from wheat malt. I'm sure Pilsner is fine. I don't have my recipe in front of me but I think it was a pretty simple pale ale kind of malt bill.

 

[IslandLizard]

Do you really use a racking cane? I highly recommend an auto siphon. So much easier! [...]

Do you really use an auto siphon? I highly recommend a racking cane. So much easier!

 

[zahmzwickler]

Do you really use a racking cane? I highly recommend an auto siphon. So much easier! I didn't worry too much about the siphon and hoses and bottling bucket because the beer was in contact so briefly with each. I definitely soaked them in sanitizer more thoroughly than I usually would but I don't think you need a whole extra set of everything else.

I did a primary, racked onto fruit in the secondary then racked into a new carboy for a few weeks in a tertiary to let the fruit junk settle out. You definitely lose some of your beer in all this, I think I bottled under 4 gallons, but it was so good. I put mine on 7.5 lbs of strawberries and 2.5 lbs of rhubarb but if I do that one again I'd add more rhubarb.

I read in American Sour that Brett can make unpleasant flavors from wheat malt. I'm sure Pilsner is fine. I don't have my recipe in front of me but I think it was a pretty simple pale ale kind of malt bill.

That's interesting about the wheat, I'll look into it? I use an auto siphon but was thinking if I needed create a sour equipment profile the cane would suffice. Thanks for your input!

 

[TheMilkMan]

I'd probably go for an oktoberfest style or some other dark lager.

 

[schematix]

I'd probably go for an oktoberfest style or some other dark lager.

This was going to be my suggestion as well. I've left lagers on the yeast for 2 months before and they tasted fantastic.

 

[cernst151]

Do you really use an auto siphon? I highly recommend a racking cane. So much easier!

HA! Indeed. To each their own.

 

[IslandLizard]

HA! Indeed. To each their own.

Glad you can see the humor in that. I hoped you would. 2 parallel camps.

I got an auto siphon in a bunch of equipment that came free with a 20# CO2 tank, double regulator and stuff off CL.

After a few weeks I finally tried it and I got the hang of but not until I squirted good beer all over the floor (the hose was too short, doh!). I could not see it being all that much easier than my old venerable stainless racking cane except there were now 2 long pieces, one with a plunger, and longer tubing to clean.

I must say in the auto-siphon's favor, it doesn't need that tricky sanitary suck to get started.

 

[syd138]

"Three months on the yeast in the primary? Well ive heard 6-8 weeks with success, but I dont know anyone I trust thats gone 12 weeks."

I did a Belgian Dubbel last year and kept it in the primary for about 3 months. It is a fantastic beer and I could not taste any negative affect by having it in the primary that long.

 

[brdb]

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look into those. Are there any common pitfalls I should be aware of? How do you feel about pitching lacto early?

As far as common pitfalls, I think myself and others have covered most of them pretty well thus far. The recommendation to add lactose or maltodextrin is a good one, especially if you are an extract brewer and don't have the ability to mash at higher temperatures. Lactose and maltodextrin are both non-fermentable sugars to regular sach yeast, but brett is able to convert these sugars which means once the sach have fermented out your wort, the brett still have sugars to consume (as far as recommended amounts I would probably start with .25lb, you can always add more of either of these sugars post brew day). I pitch all the microbes at once. I think this is more an issue of personal preference. I would not worry about the lacto making your beer too sour if you pitch it with everything else all at once. I will also say that I have made sours in plastics and then fermented "normal" beers in the same plastic afterwards with no harm, although, the previous poster is correct in saying that plastics will harbor microbes better than glass. Here is a good article (written by the author of American Sour Beers) about sours I would recommend reading:
http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2009/11/brewing-sour-beer-at-home.html

 

[cernst151]

Glad you can see the humor in that. I hoped you would. 2 parallel camps.

I got an auto siphon in a bunch of equipment that came free with a 20# CO2 tank, double regulator and stuff off CL.

After a few weeks I finally tried it and I got the hang of but not until I squirted good beer all over the floor (the hose was too short, doh!). I could not see it being all that much easier than my old venerable stainless racking cane except there were now 2 long pieces, one with a plunger, and longer tubing to clean.

I must say in the auto-siphon's favor, it doesn't need that tricky sanitary suck to get started.

I'm very good about getting humor even (especially) at my own expense.

I've only tried using the racking cane once and had a hell of a time getting it started without getting my hands and everything in my beer. Once I got it going I too had a big beer spill. Both of us would have probably had better luck with a longer hose. (That's what she said!)