So I was recently in a single bbl nanobrewery... the brewer was kind enough to so me his set up and I noticed that the BK had three 5500w elements running from the kettle to the wall. I asked how he controlled them and he showed me that he used the breaker as a power switch. My question is with all the reading I've done on here it is suggested that you have something control the power to these elements so you don't scorch the wort in the BK. He clearing is not scorching his wort(beers were excellent) and all 3 elements are running at 100% during the boil.:rockin:
Three 5500w element BK question.
- Thread starter J311gonzo
- Start date
Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:
brrman
Well-Known Member
For me - in a Keggle I run one 5500w element connected to a PID for element control.
Perhaps his combination does not push enough for a boilover? I guess he uses all three to get to boil and kills all but one (or two?) element at 100% to maintain the boil?
Perhaps his combination does not push enough for a boilover? I guess he uses all three to get to boil and kills all but one (or two?) element at 100% to maintain the boil?
jeffmeh
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2009
- Messages
- 2,145
- Reaction score
- 216
If one matches the wattage to the wort volume, then sure it can work. In his case, he likely has close to 35 gallons of wort pre-boil, and he only gets the full 5500w times 3 if each is truly at 240v (not 220v, not 208v, etc.). That said, a controller allows one to adapt the power output to the system, which eliminates the need to match the elements to the system precisely, provides flexibility for different batch sizes, and enables lower output in most cases.
I would be interested in knowing whether he recirculates (or agitates or manually stirs) while the wort is coming up to boil temperature. Doing so generally avoids scorching issues.
I would be interested in knowing whether he recirculates (or agitates or manually stirs) while the wort is coming up to boil temperature. Doing so generally avoids scorching issues.
Interesting. I would think he would want some type of controller instead of just on and off. But hey, if it's working...
Even if we could select an element wattage that could run nicely for a consistent boil without overdoing it, that means you're compromising on your ability to quickly get up to a boil. It stands to reason that if he's got 30 gallons of wort boiling, three 4500 watt elements would be about right if not a little overpowered.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
I agree and think even 3 4500w ones are overkill. he likely has crazy boiloff amounts...
With 11.5 gallons and my pid set at 75% My single 4500w element makes an extremely vigorous boil... I figured 4500w is just less likely to scorch and still plenty for 5 and 10 gallon batches plus I can still run my rims and one element off of 1 30amp circuit at the same time with pumps and be safe...
I have another question? this was a licensed nano brewery? I was under the impression that these water heater elements could not be used in a commercial brewery? Thats great if its not the case...
They might be individually switched. So he has 3 power levels (besides OFF), 5500, 11000, and 16500 watts.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Yes very likely... this would make more sense for sure.
also one couldnt tell the difference from 4500 and 5500w by just looking at them so perhaps they are different or smaller than 5500w...
jeffmeh
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2009
- Messages
- 2,145
- Reaction score
- 216
I know of at least one nanobrewery (Lone Wolf in Wolfeboro, NH) that uses a modified Kal style panel to run a RIMS system. Given that they are on the main drag in Wolfeboro, I suspect they have met all necessary BS regulations. However, it is NH, "Live Free or Die," so those regulations may be less stringent than elsewhere.
augiedoggy
Well-Known Member
Ahh...
I'm in New york... next to the commonwealth of California we have the least amount of freedoms and more bureaucracy than any other state it seems.... well at least we can homebrew and drink.... isnt UTAH still a dry state? of course they dont care how many wives you have if I remember right....... weird priorities. Ive been to new Hampshire for work many times... Dont they have crazy taxes on everything to make up for no income tax or something?
anyway I know even bango burners are illegal on a commercially operated brew rig because they are not ul listed and approved for that use.... So I guess I assumed elements intended for industrial or hot water tank use would need "testing" and approval and all the shady garbage that goes along with it these days for foodstuff production....
J311gonzo
Well-Known Member
I asked him what size they were and they were in fact 5500w. I was there for most of the boil... his BK is big enough (roughly 55 gallons) that he won't need to worry about a boil over. And yes all three elements appeared to be on separate breakers... however I didn't see him kick on off during the boil.
As far as agitation, he moves enough wort into the BK to cover all 3 elements and kicks them on. after that he continues to pull from his MT and add more. That's all the agitation it really got. But towards the end, basically all of the aroma additions, he would have to stir the BK to keep it calmed down.
As far as agitation, he moves enough wort into the BK to cover all 3 elements and kicks them on. after that he continues to pull from his MT and add more. That's all the agitation it really got. But towards the end, basically all of the aroma additions, he would have to stir the BK to keep it calmed down.
kal
Well-Known Member
No need to stir. Wort is not thick and the heating stirs things enough.
They can. Many commercial breweries are using electrical elements like this.
Yup. I have some friends who have been brewing for 20+ years with a couple of elements this way. They run two to get to boil and then turn one off to maintain boil. The trick is matching the element size with the batch size, and then always brewing the same batch size. Or not, and just living with a more vigorous boil if you end up brewing a smaller batch sometimes.
I bet he's running them at 208V however. When run at only 208V a 5500/240V element only outputs 4160W and draws 20 amps.
Kal
My home brewery is one barrel or 30 gallons. My BK has two 4500 watt elements. My preboil volume is 39 gallons. I run my elements at 100% until it comes to a boil and then decrease to 90%. I would think he could run all three elements until it reaches a boil and then turn off one of the elements.
Three elements seems like overkill. My 1Bbl commercial nano setup used two 5500W elements. Both at full power to achieve boil and then one is reduced using the Still Dragon dial controller. I can manage the boil in any batch size by using either or both elements. Main control panel has simple on/off switches and one element cable is interrupted with the dial controller. I never use much more than 35% of the controlled element (plus 100% of the other) once the boil is achieved.
kal
Well-Known Member
+1
I know many 1bbl brewers who only use one 5500W element. I recommend 2 to speed up heating wort and water however. Up to the brewer to decide what sort of rise time they deem acceptable, and the more heat you have, the less you wait. Nobody else can answer that question for them.
Kal
I know many 1bbl brewers who only use one 5500W element. I recommend 2 to speed up heating wort and water however. Up to the brewer to decide what sort of rise time they deem acceptable, and the more heat you have, the less you wait. Nobody else can answer that question for them.
Kal
I am surprised that one could boil a one barrel batch with 5500 watts. I run 9000 watts at 90% - about 8000 watts. My boil is adequate but far from raging.
Of course it's all about how much power you have easily available. If you are brewing near a half full main panel, why not crank it to 11? A 60amp spa panel can run a pair of 6000 watt elements. When you're production brewing, time is money literally. I see nothing wrong with 500 watts per gallon in a boil kettle when you can throttle it back. You know, 11000 watts in a RIMS tube-like assembly can deliver over half a gallon a minute of on-demand sparge water.
Similar threads
