Thoughts on Secondary Fermenting

[hharborbrew]

Brand new brewers here. Just did our first kit last night (standard IPA) and followed all of the directions exactly. We hit our OG right in the range and now the wort has been fermenting for just under 24 hours.

The directions say that they recommend secondary fermenting but don't elaborate much more. I read there's some danger associated with it. Thoughts? Thanks all...cheers.


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[kharper6]

This topic is discussed pretty frequently around here. If you use the search you'll find the evolving opinions from 2009-present on "yes get it off the yeast cake" and "no that is unnecessary and risks infection".

You don't need to take it off the yeast cake. You don't need to secondary (in 99% of cases). Just check your gravity after 7 days of fermentation, if it is at your desired FG, give it 24 more hours, check it again, then keg/bottle if your results are consistent.

 

[masonsjax]

Unless you have a good reason, you dont need to do it. Just leave your beer in primary for 7-10 days and once you get a gravity reading that hasn't changed over the course of 3 days, you can bottle or keg.
Welcome to the forum and to the obsession!

 

[hharborbrew]

Thanks for the help guys I appreciate the input. I think I'm just going to stick with the single fermentation for now. Cheers all


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[BigFloyd]

Unless you have a good reason, you dont need to do it. Just leave your beer in primary for 7-10 days and once you get a gravity reading that hasn't changed over the course of 3 days, you can bottle or keg.
Welcome to the forum and to the obsession!

This^^^^, except that I suggest to new brewers that they do the first hydro check at 13-14 days, another one 3-4 days later. If they're the same, you're good to prime/bottle.

If you have the means to do so, try cold crashing the primary after fermentation is done. I move mine into the 35-36*F for 5-7 days. It will do wonders for clearing the beer and still give you plenty of suspended yeast for bottle carbing.

 

[Puddlethumper]

While I agree with all of the previous posts in that you don't need to move the beer, there are some advantages, and if done correctly and carefully, will yield a beer with less sediment in the bottom of the bottle.

First understand that "secondary fermentation" is a term borrowed from wine making that really doesn't apply to brewing. The main reason to move a beer to another vessel is to remove it from as much of the trub in the bottom of the fermenter as possible and to then allow further settling while the beer is exposed to fining agents and then cold-crashed prior to packaging. Sometimes we will wait until the beer is in a secondary vessel for dry-hopping. Long-term aging of beers such as imperial stouts is almost always done in a secondary vessel.

But for the normal beer do you need to take this step? Absolutely not. Will it yield a beer with less sediment in the bottle? Most likely "yes".

If you are a beginning brewer my advice would be to skip this step. Your beer will be good without it. But look into the process and consider experimenting with it in the future. You may find that, along with many others of us, this step will become part of your regular process.

 

[hharborbrew]

Thanks for the info all. What positives come from letting the batch ferment 14 days as opposed to a shorter period of time like 10 days.

What exactly is cold crashing?


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[Calder]

Thanks for the info all. What positives come from letting the batch ferment 14 days as opposed to a shorter period of time like 10 days.

What exactly is cold crashing?

I rarely package before 5 weeks.

Once fermentation is done, that is same gravity reading 3 days in a row (and the yeast set the schedule, not you), you can package. Leaving it on the yeast cake for a couple of days will allow the yeast to clean up undesirable esters in the beer quicker than in the bottles.

Leaving the beer longer before packaging will drop more yeast (and other particles), leaving less gunk in the bottom of the beer allowing you to keep it longer (a lot of yeast & trub will create off flavors after a while).

Cold crashing is lowering the temperature of the beer to close to freezing and keeping it there for a few days. This will drop a lot of the yeast, bring out the protriens (chill haze) and allow that to drop, resulting in a clearer beer when packaged. many people (including me) do not have the ability to cold crash.

 

[kharper6]

Thanks for the info all. What positives come from letting the batch ferment 14 days as opposed to a shorter period of time like 10 days.

What exactly is cold crashing?


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Getting your beer pretty close to freezing and holding it there. Most/all sediment and yeast will drop to the bottom of the container. Then you siphon from the top, yielding a cleaner product. Gelatin (I do about 1g/gallon) will aid in this process. Look up "Gelatin Fining Homebrew" on google and you'll find a million how-tos.

 

[gilstein21]

when i first started I thought everything needed to go to secondary. Now, only beers that I'm going to age with oak, or lagers go to secondary. I dry hop my APAs in primary now.

 

[hharborbrew]

Thanks guys. I definitely don't have the ability to cold crash currently but hopefully I'll be able to down the road. Will let you know how my first brew turns out. Thanks for all the advice. Cheers


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[Puddlethumper]

Thanks guys. I definitely don't have the ability to cold crash currently but hopefully I'll be able to down the road. Will let you know how my first brew turns out. Thanks for all the advice. Cheers


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You got an ear-full of somewhat conflicting views. But that is part of what makes this hobby/obsession so unique. There may be a dozen different ways to arrive at the same great beer. For the time being, keep it simple. Make beers you like to drink, learn as you go, and keep your mind open since the learning curve will be pretty steep for a while. But most of all, have fun! The cool thing about beer is that the stuff is amazingly forgiving.

Cheers!

 

[hharborbrew]

You got an ear-full of somewhat conflicting views. But that is part of what makes this hobby/obsession so unique. There may be a dozen different ways to arrive at the same great beer. For the time being, keep it simple. Make beers you like to drink, learn as you go, and keep your mind open since the learning curve will be pretty steep for a while. But most of all, have fun! The cool thing about beer is that the stuff is amazingly forgiving.

Cheers!

Thanks Puddle, appreciate the help.

When taking OG readings at the end of the 7 days, is it best to take a small sample to get my reading (and then discard that sample)? Would you recommend not even taking a reading until a week has passed?

I understand that once I get a constant reading for about 3-4 days I'm good to bottle. I just want make sure I'm dotting my "i"s and crossing my "t"'s so to speak.

 

[stonecutter2]

Thanks Puddle, appreciate the help.

When taking OG readings at the end of the 7 days, is it best to take a small sample to get my reading (and then discard that sample)? Would you recommend not even taking a reading until a week has passed?

I understand that once I get a constant reading for about 3-4 days I'm good to bottle. I just want make sure I'm dotting my "i"s and crossing my "t"'s so to speak.

Just personal preference, I don't even crack open my fermenter until 14 days have passed and it's been several days since I've seen any indication of fermentation going on...unless I'm dry hopping. When dry hopping, I toss the hops in after about 7-10 days of fermentation, and close 'er back up for 7 more days.

Some people recommend not putting your sample back into the fermenter. I generally do and it hasn't messed anything up yet, that I can tell. Excellent sanitation is key. Then again, I brew a lot of 1 gallon batches and one sample can short me by a fair amount with such a small batch.

 

[BigFloyd]

Thanks Puddle, appreciate the help.

When taking OG readings at the end of the 7 days, is it best to take a small sample to get my reading (and then discard that sample)? Would you recommend not even taking a reading until a week has passed?

I understand that once I get a constant reading for about 3-4 days I'm good to bottle. I just want make sure I'm dotting my "i"s and crossing my "t"'s so to speak.

Take the first reading at 13-14 days. Get another 4 days later. If they are the same, it's ready to bottle.

I never return the sample to the fermenter. I pay close attention to sanitation, but why risk a whole batch over a few ounces of beer? Taste it then toss the rest.

 

[hharborbrew]

Take the first reading at 13-14 days. Get another 4 days later. If they are the same, it's ready to bottle.

I never return the sample to the fermenter. I pay close attention to sanitation, but why risk a whole batch over a few ounces of beer? Taste it then toss the rest.

Thanks for the input BigFloyd. Is it safe to say that waiting longer can not hurt the batch? I know the instructions from the kit IPA says 5-7 days but I'd rather wait longer and not rush the batch.

Is it standard to wait that long (2 weeks) or is the constant gravity reading (over a few days time) the green light to move to bottling? Thanks for the help everyone.

 

[kombat]

Will [using a secondary] yield a beer with less sediment in the bottle? Most likely "yes".

How does disturbing the beer by transferring it between vessels mid-process result in a clearer beer at the end, all other factors being held equal?

 

[mcangeli]

How does disturbing the beer by transferring it between vessels mid-process result in a clearer beer at the end, all other factors being held equal?

Because you're getting it off the yeast cake at the bottom of the primary fermenter and reducing the chance of stirring more of the yeast/trub back up

Plus, when you go to rack or bottle from the secondary there will be less trub in the bottom.

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[masonsjax]

From pressing people further that assert that secondary results in less sediment in the bottle, I've discovered that it's a way to minimize the trub picked up during racking for those that haven't figured out how to rack from above the trub line.

Sorry if that sounds aggressive, but I believe in giving out advice based on facts rather than personal preference and it seems like lots of people claim that secondary always results in clearer beer when in fact there is no scientific reason to back up that claim and that careful racking from primary can actually have better results.

 

[BigFloyd]

Sorry if that sounds aggressive, but I believe in giving out advice based on facts rather than personal preference and it seems like lots of people claim that secondary always results in clearer beer when in fact there is no scientific reason to back up that claim and that careful racking from primary can actually have better results.

Especially if one cold crashes the primary, making the yeast cake more firm and less likely to get sucked up in the siphon.

 

[JayDubWill]

How does disturbing the beer by transferring it between vessels mid-process result in a clearer beer at the end, all other factors being held equal?

the goal is to not disturb the beer by using an auto-siphon. I only rack to secondary for four reasons: extended lagering, dry hoping, racking on to fruit, or using gelatin to clear it. I'll typically let it ferment two full weeks before racking to secondary or if I'm not going to secondary I'll let it sit for three weeks to a month just so it can clear a little more on its own.

 

[hharborbrew]

Is my three piece lock supposed to click up and down when it releases the air build up? Cheers


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[Puddlethumper]

Is my three piece lock supposed to click up and down when it releases the air build up? Cheers


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Yup. If you have it filled with StarSan it will actually blow bubbles sometimes.

 

[hharborbrew]

Cheers puddle. That's what I figured just wanted to make sure. So far so good. Thanks for the help all. Never had such a warm welcome for a newbie on a forum haha


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[Puddlethumper]

Thanks Puddle, appreciate the help.

When taking OG readings at the end of the 7 days, is it best to take a small sample to get my reading (and then discard that sample)? Would you recommend not even taking a reading until a week has passed?

I understand that once I get a constant reading for about 3-4 days I'm good to bottle. I just want make sure I'm dotting my "i"s and crossing my "t"'s so to speak.

I tend to start testing my beer at 8-12 days which is a little earlier than some others. But I never test before 8 days. Waiting 14 days is probably the safest. And, like most have suggested, I do not return samples to the fermenter. I see no point in risking contamination of a whole batch over a few ounces. Heck, if the beer is good I just drink it flat!

How long to leave the beer on the yeast-cake is a matter of some debate with some very interesting and well thought out views on both sides. For now I'd suggest you go with the advice given above, 10 - 14 days before testing. Don't try to save the sample. Unless you are making a really big beer or a style that needs to age before consumption you should package as soon as it is ready based on your hydrometer readings.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Cheers puddle. That's what I figured just wanted to make sure. So far so good. Thanks for the help all. Never had such a warm welcome for a newbie on a forum haha


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I agree. There are a bunch of really neat people in this hobby!

 

[cjbalough]

I'm a newby, on batch 10 or so now, so take this for what its worth. I've done it both ways and prefer to transfer to secondary. I think I end up with less gunk in the bottles.

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[BigFloyd]

Here we go again...............................

 

[Puddlethumper]

Here we go again...............................

LMAO - Cheers to you BigFloyd! Hope you are having a great evening!

 

[BigFloyd]

LMAO - Cheers to you BigFloyd! Hope you are having a great evening!

Thanks. It's looking up. Looks like we can go back to work tomorrow after being stuck at home all day (part of it w/o power) due to a nasty ice storm. Pretty bad. Lots of folks got stranded overnight in their cars on I-20.