Thoughts on Grain vs extract for major brewers

[Donutz]

I am a very new home brewer. I never realized about the extract and now I know why people said it was so simple. I then started to think that this isn't what I wanted...I wanted to brew from grains... and then I thought about it and thought about it. I love my coffee...but I don't feel the need to grow OR roast coffee beans...but buy them, grind them, and brew them. Maybe that is kind of like just using the extract. Thoughts on this line of thinking would be great...but my main thought and question here is... What do major brewer's use. I don't want to say such fowl language...but I doubt a crappy company such as Budweiser uses grains.... But what about large good brewing companies such as Boston Beer, DogFish Head, or New Belgium?? Do you think or know if they use full all grain? Do they do an all grain on some of their beers and use extract on others? Just wondering!

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Almost all of them use an all grain base. Some of the macro brewers have high rates of adjunct additions (rice syrup, for example), but the base recipes are still largely comprised of traditionally mashed grain.

The only larger scale extract operations that I'm aware of are some brewpubs. It doesn't mean that there are no commercial breweries using malt extract as the base for their products, but I've never heard of it.

Additionally, you seem to think that extract brewing is somehow inferior. Though it is difficult to achieve the same level of flexibility in an extract brew vs an all grain brew, there is actually a higher degree of process control in some regards, and an argument for more consistent results because malt extract tends to be a very consistent product. There are plenty of award winning extract homebrewers whose beer stacks up VERY favorably against and even outshines many all grain brewers' results.

 

[agrazela]

As I see it, grinding beans IS analogous to all-grain. Extract brewing is more like using instant coffee.

 

[RM-MN]

I grow grain and I sometimes use a little of it unmalted in my beers but for the most part I buy malted grains because I don't want the hassle of malting my own. I like the flexibility that brewing from grains instead of extract where someone else determines the mix of grains that go into it but I'd have to say that brewing with extract is more like buying a can of coffee and making coffee from that instead of buying the beans and roasting them yourself. Buying a bag of wort where you only add yeast and ferment it to get beer is more like the instant coffee.

Starting from grains is quite a bit cheaper than brewing from extract so most bigger breweries will go that route. Budweiser couldn't compete on the shelf with Coors if they started with extract. Their beer would always be more expensive so people would buy the Coors instead.

 

[unionrdr]

Brewing all grain does have a new set of rules to follow. Even partial mash has things like water to grain amounts,cosistent mash temps,grains used,etc. Then clarifiers like irish moss & the like. It all depends on what you feel you can handle starting out.

 

[cjbalough]

I'm new too, and am enjoying extract with steeping grains. 1) I have 2 kids, a demanding job, and generally busy life. So I like that I can squeeze in a batch in the evening during the week. Start to fermenter in a coupple-few hours. 2) there is enough to learn and experiment with in this simpler format. Enough technique and art/skill to make consistently decent beer.

The coffee comparisons are crap, just not enoigh to the process. It is more like cooking a fancy meal using dried herbs and some caned/ prepared ingredients -vs- using 100% fresh ingredients.

If you want more, why not try a partial mash recipe, or BIAB? Even stepping up to traditoonal all grain doesn't seem all that " hard" just more involved and time consuming....and with more room to make mistakes as you are learning/mastering the basics.

 

[wilconrad]

Start with extract brewing and learn the process. If you enjoy the hobby and want more flexibility in your malt bill, want the challenge of a more complex process, and enjoy playing with a bunch of cool new brewing toys, make the jump to all-grain. I brew all-grain for these reasons; note that "brew better beer" isn't one of them. You can brew great beer with extract.

 

[AnOldUR]

The coffee comparisons are crap . . .

I like the pizza comparison:

Domino’s = Buy your beer from the liquor store
Frozen Pie = All extract
Frozen Pie w/ additional toppings added = Extract w/ steeped grains
Store bought crust / you do all the rest = Partial Mash
Homemade Pie = All Grain

Depending on the quality of the ingredients and process any one could be great or really bad.

 

[Donutz]

Additionally, you seem to think that extract brewing is somehow inferior.

I don't believe that in any way, shape, or form did I ever "think" or mention that I felt that extract brewing is inferior. I simply didn't know that there was such a thing until my wife bought me the kit for Christmas and I asked her what the liquid stuff was and where was the grains. She said she didn't know...this is just what the guy sold her. At that exact moment, something didn't feel right. I had to read and learn. As far as the examples of cooking, coffee, or pizza...I have never complained about brewing the coffee the way I do...or eating a premade pizza or whatever! It was just a surprise to me. The main point of the whole post was really to see what people thought about how major breweries do it.

In the film Beer Wars (which I have watched about 4 times since it came out..long before I ever even thought about brewing beer..) there was a scene where they actually asked Budweiser how much grain they used or percent of grain or something along those lines and they said they use extract. That is what got me wondering.

Anyhow, I do thank the rest of you for your great replies!

 

[Pappers_]

. . . where they actually asked Budweiser how much grain they used or percent of grain or something along those lines and they said they use extract. That is what got me wondering.

I don't think this is accurate - InBev/AB could not use extensive malt extract and be profitable, I suspect. As Yuri said, every macro brewery and most craft brewers use all grain, not just for quality but also for cost.

AB did make malt extract during prohibition, to sell to consumers,

InBev/AB does use hop extract, perhaps that's what you're thinking of.

 

[rawlus]

I think with hobbies, people like to dive right in, and all grain provides a lot more stuff to do, a lot more fancy equipment needs and an excuse to turn the hobby into an obsession.... Like any hobby, the ones that are into it the most tend to make it consume as much of their time and effort as possible. Yes you can eventually get back to almost extract simplicity with all grain, but generally as a result of investment and tinkering with brew rigs with automation and temp control and pumps and so on. All grain approach provides a reason to continue to expand your research, equipment and techniques.

Extract is all grain wort essentially, concentrated for easier handling, shipping and use. At the boil the two are relatively the same, and throughout the rest of the process from ferment to serving.

For me, I think yeast selection ferm temps and other post boil activities has as much if not more impact on the final product that a strictly extract vs all grain debate.

All grain isn't even all that complicated if you have the right equipment, so it's not like you have to be a genius to brew all grain, far from it. There's steps you follow just like with extract and it's about how well you can adhere to the steps. This is why home brewing is such a growing hobby and people from all walks of life and experience levels can manage to turn out competitive and award winning beers.

I have yet to experience a material difference in the end product that I could relate to extract vs all grain. In all cases if there is a difference in quality, it is related to something else... Technique, ability, controls, recipe....

 

[AnOldUR]

Extract is all grain wort essentially....

A pint of Pliny at Monk’s is essentially all grain wort that Russian River fermented and a barkeep put in your glass. Just depends on where you want to step into the process.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

I don't want to say such fowl language...but I doubt a crappy company such as Budweiser uses grains....

I used the phrase "seem to think" - implying that my perception (based on the quoted phrase) is that you shed a negative light on extract brewing. The remainder of my post, though you dispute it based on hazy recollection of a very biased film, addressed your question very directly.

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

Extract is easier to use but also more expensive.

Most breweries use grain, or atleast SHOULD. Using extract at a commercial level is a shortcut and a poor one at that.

 

[Tutsbrew]

I like the pizza comparison:

Domino’s = Buy your beer from the liquor store
Frozen Pie = All extract
Frozen Pie w/ additional toppings added = Extract w/ steeped grains
Store bought crust / you do all the rest = Partial Mash
Homemade Pie = All Grain

Depending on the quality of the ingredients and process any one could be great or really bad.

I was wondering the style of home brewing that would be most analogous to getting a Domino's pie and adding additional toppings to that?

 

[AnOldUR]

I was wondering the style of home brewing that would be most analogous to getting a Domino's pie and adding additional toppings to that?

Uhmm . . . dropping hop pellets into your can of Bud Lite?