This is my dream...

[todd_k]

Which is why the food needs to come first - people who like BMC will come for the food, and they just may try one of the Blonde Ales. People who like micros will come for the whole experience.

Legend sells food too but that doesn't keep the BMC crowd happy. I know what you mean but there are plenty of bar and grills places around with decent/good food.

 

[Yuri_Rage]

Legend sells food too but that doesn't keep the BMC crowd happy. I know what you mean but there are plenty of bar and grills places around with decent/good food.

But do they have REALLY good food? I mean the kind of food people are talking about for a week after they've had it? THAT'S the caliber place you need.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I agree with todd_k's post above. Let me give another angle, kind of the one I'm getting at...


Beer Menu:

House Pale Lager $3.00
House Stout $3.00
House ESB $3.00
Budweiser $5.00
(comes with a complimentary sample of our Pale Lager for comparison!)

and so on...


I'm saying you should have those beers to cover the one stubburn ahole in a large group who flat out will not try anything new.

In my mind, it's not about catering to the beer-swilling masses- I don't care if Budweiser lovers hate my place. HOWEVER, if there's a group of ten people who want to go for a bite to eat, I don't want old Uncle Henry refusing to go because he can't get a Budweiser there. That's not one lost customer, that's TEN lost customers. The solo customer, seeing that a Budweiser is $5 will not order one (or else he won't be back). But uncle Henry, in the company of 9 other people will order his Bud. He may bitch about it, but he'll order it and he'll drink it and there will be 9 other people who might come back to your restaurant. And who knows? Maybe uncle Henry will try your free sample and like it!

.... and that would be 10 more customers tjat you wouldn't otherwise have had.

 

[olllllo]

Bud would never you get away with that.

 

[todd_k]

But do they have REALLY good food? I mean the kind of food people are talking about for a week after they've had it? THAT'S the caliber place you need.

But what are the odds you'll have that kind of food? You can have good food that most people like but I don't know many places, especially bar and grills, that have great food. You almost have to be lucky to have great food, unless you have a specialty like BBQ, wings, pizza, etc.

Sorry if it seems like I'm trying to rain on your parade, Dude! It's a debate that I can see the merits of both sides and again, I don't know what choice I would make if it were me. My heart says one thing but my brain is saying something else.... ("shut up brain or I'll stab you with a Q-tip!")

 

[Yuri_Rage]

But what are the odds you'll have that kind of food?

I'm not talking about playing the odds...you have to KNOW that your menu absolutely kicks ass. The little guy doesn't survive without being a cut above. That goes for food, beer, and just about everything else. I'm not trying to say that Dude's dream is an easy one to fulfill...simply that it's possible with the effort put in the right places.

 

[todd_k]

Bud would never you get away with that.

I agree. There's a brewpub chain around here called Hops. They're more of a TGI Friday's that makes beer. The foods not that great but the beer is good. They sell they're own beer cheaper than BMC but not $2 cheaper... I don't think a distributor would waste their time if you did that.

 

[olllllo]

The best places IMO are where you find an eclectic crowd.

It's the type of place that the cubicle drone can find himself going home with the goth chick.

Service is what it's all about. There is a world of difference in getting your food hot and fresh vs. sitting under a lamp. I mean burn your mouth hot.

 

[the_bird]

It's kind of a pointless debate, since I would wager that if you looked at the most successful brewpubs, it's a combination of factors even above and beyond the quality of the beer and the quality of the food that weighs most heavily in their success.

One thing that you WILL have to keep in mind is that you need enough capital so that if business starts out slow, you don't run out of money. That's the major downside to the sexy copper; if you've got $20k more invested in brew equipment than you NEED to have invested because it looks good, that's $20k of capital you don't have to sustain the operation if business starts out slow (like it usually does).

In any case, though, what a great dream; we're debating it so much because I think we've all spent far too much time dreaming about it ourselves!

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

You want ecclectic??!!!!

I just had this thought today....


Why not buy an old train car and turn it into a brewpub. Just keep it open one day a week and sell growlers out the side window on a walkup basis.

Either that, or else... ever see the painting... I think it's called... ummm... "Nighthawks". It's a greasy spoon diner with a long bar, everybody sits facing away from the windows, but the windows are huge so everyone can see what's going on inside. Make a brewpub like that. It takes minimal real estate and if you're only open one day a week, you'll be packed when you're open. People see a packed place, they want to go there. Then go to two days a week. Then three if/when you can support it.

This keeps your rent low (small space). It keeps your staffing cost low (minimal days open). If your beers are really good and you can service walk ins looking to take a growler home, you could clean up on that basis.



It's not exactly what Dude is talking about, but it's a different business model..

 

[Desert_Sky]

Im not sure how it is where you guys are....


But in AZ a class 6 License goes for ~$125k here in town. Now thats unlimited alcohol sales as long as you sell food. You can sell alcohol to go as well.

Now a class 3 license allows you to produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product. No other liquor or beer from a distributor (not sure if it requires you to serve food or not) . And this license is only $500 bucks.

just a little bit of FYI

 

[Dude]

Im not sure how it is where you guys are....


But in AZ a class 6 License goes for ~$125k here in town. Now thats unlimited alcohol sales as long as you sell food. You can sell alcohol to go as well.

Now a class 3 license allows you to produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product. No other liquor or beer from a distributor (not sure if it requires you to serve food or not) . And this license is only $500 bucks.

just a little bit of FYI

There ya go. That makes the decision a little easier...not that I was wavering in the least, but....

 

[david_42]

My former brewing partner AKA guzzleboy, wanted to have a brewpub in between a pizzeria and a sausage shop, with take-in agreements (and kick-backs).

The best brewpubs around here are joint efforts between a brewer and a chief or something like Golden Valley, where someone owns both, but has professionals running each side. GVB's food gimmick is the Angus beef raised by the owners on their farm, but the seafood is amazing.

After 6 years, I'm about three months short of having product to sell, so dream your Dream!

 

[McKBrew]

I'd consider giving a left nut for a way less expensive version of the brewing sculpture. I'd like an all-grain systems set up for 5-gallon batches..... Dream over, back to reality.

Good Luck Dude, Someday I look forward to ordering a beer at your counter.

 

[Desert_Sky]

A stone oven pizza joint is about as easy as it gets. Great beer, great pizza, and LCD flat panels sticking out from every possible place you could put them with a different game on each one.


then you win @ life

 

[RoaringBrewer]

People who like micro/craft beers will go to bars that sell also sell BMC but I'm not sure the opposite is true.

Personally I will go to a bar with only BMC, only if I am dragged there...

I'm sure its the same for BMC fans to a microbrewery.

I just don't think you TRY to cater to this audience by serving BMC. Yes, you probably WILL lose SOME business, but you may also lose some other business if you serve BMC (the beer enthusiast who doesn't want to drink with BMC-types).

 

[RoaringBrewer]

I agree with todd_k's post above. Let me give another angle, kind of the one I'm getting at...


Beer Menu:

House Pale Lager $3.00
House Stout $3.00
House ESB $3.00
Budweiser $5.00
(comes with a complimentary sample of our Pale Lager for comparison!)

and so on...


I'm saying you should have those beers to cover the one stubburn ahole in a large group who flat out will not try anything new.

In my mind, it's not about catering to the beer-swilling masses- I don't care if Budweiser lovers hate my place. HOWEVER, if there's a group of ten people who want to go for a bite to eat, I don't want old Uncle Henry refusing to go because he can't get a Budweiser there. That's not one lost customer, that's TEN lost customers. The solo customer, seeing that a Budweiser is $5 will not order one (or else he won't be back). But uncle Henry, in the company of 9 other people will order his Bud. He may bitch about it, but he'll order it and he'll drink it and there will be 9 other people who might come back to your restaurant. And who knows? Maybe uncle Henry will try your free sample and like it!

.... and that would be 10 more customers tjat you wouldn't otherwise have had.

Maybe I'm naive, but I don't think Uncle Henry would buy the Bud for $5. Instead he would order a coke for $1, eat his meal while beeching abou the expensive Bud, and never come back. His family will still come back, just without him... One lost customer. The kind you don't want to begin with...

 

[rdwj]

...the beer enthusiast who doesn't want to drink with BMC-types.

Honestly, that's got to be the smallest sub-set of beer drinkers possible

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Im not sure how it is where you guys are....


But in AZ a class 6 License goes for ~$125k here in town. Now thats unlimited alcohol sales as long as you sell food. You can sell alcohol to go as well.

Now a class 3 license allows you to produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product. No other liquor or beer from a distributor (not sure if it requires you to serve food or not) . And this license is only $500 bucks.

just a little bit of FYI

Yeah, that definitely makes it easier... Maybe once you are rolling in the dough from your micro-brewed dream coming true, then you upgrade to the Class 6 and sell mixed drinks for the ladies...

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Honestly, that's got to be the smallest sub-set of beer drinkers possible

Yeah. Those are beer SNOBS, not beer enthusiasts. Beer enthusiasts say, "
What??!!! They have a new kind of beer??!!!! LET'S GO!!!!!" Doesn't matter if he a satanist and the brewery is atop a large montain and the beer being brewed by religious monks, a real beer drinker will get to the top for a sample....

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Dude, why do want to cater to just blue-collar workers??? why not have something for everyone? Set up a couple big-screens so us construction guys can catch a game, and put in some WI-FI so the suits can do their thing. Give them all good food and great beer, and your rollin'!

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Honestly, that's got to be the smallest sub-set of beer drinkers possible

Honestly, you are probably right, but I just wanted to state that it DOES work both ways. You might very well not get the BMC people in without BMC, but I stand by my statement then; those are the people you don't want in anyway. ANd if there are customers like me, you would lose some business by having those type of people in...

Personally, I picture 'my' pub as being a classy place. Not a place where there are guys in dirty-1980 rock band T-shirts sitting at my bar beeching about "that mother-fooking Dale Earnhardt Jr. being a dirty mother-fooking driver" because they are drunk off their BMC-swill and have no class (yes, I'm stereotyping a bit, but most of us know these types). If there is someone who likes beer and drinks BMC because thats what is widely available and affordable, but still likes a good restaurant or other good beer, then he will try your brewpub even without BMC. And he will not be the type who acts as above...

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Now a class 3 license allows you to produce and sell up to 200k gallons of your own product. No other liquor or beer from a distributor (not sure if it requires you to serve food or not) . And this license is only $500 bucks.

LOL!!! As a retirement job, wouldn't that rock? You have a little wooden shack outside the back of your property in an unincorporated part of the state where nobody hassles you. You pay your $500.

Every Friday night, you open the doors to the shack, sell your beer, and go back to retirement...


Gotta sell food too? No problem. Your choice. We got Spaghetti-O's and we got Peanut Butter sandwiches.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Yeah. Those are beer SNOBS, not beer enthusiasts. Beer enthusiasts say, "
What??!!! They have a new kind of beer??!!!! LET'S GO!!!!!" Doesn't matter if he a satanist and the brewery is atop a large montain and the beer being brewed by religious monks, a real beer drinker will get to the top for a sample....

Maybe I am a beer snob, but I don't think I am... Because...

If the bar serving BMC also has a selection of 100 imported bottles and micros, I'll gladly drink alongside a Bud drinker. If it does not, I'll pass.

It's just my experience though, the majority of places the serve BMC usually serve only/mainly BMC. Yes, probably quite a selection of BMC at that. Budweiser, Bud Light, High Life, Miller Lite, Pabst, Michelob Ultra, Michelob Light, Michelob Amber, Bud Select, etc. You get the picture. You might see the occasional New Castle, Heineken, Amstel Light, or Fosters, or even maybe Sierra Nevada if you are REALLY lucky, but definitely nothing micro'd at most places around here. The places that are the exception to this (and there are a few around these parts), I gladly visit and drink with the macro-swill drinkers. A lot of them aren't too bad, just uneducated on beer, while others are just downright classless and annoying.

 

[Dude]

LOL!!! As a retirement job, wouldn't that rock? You have a little wooden shack outside the back of your property in an unincorporated part of the state where nobody hassles you. You pay your $500.

Every Friday night, you open the doors to the shack, sell your beer, and go back to retirement...


Gotta sell food too? No problem. Your choice. We got Spaghetti-O's and we got Peanut Butter sandwiches.

LMAO @ Toot.

:rockin:

 

[Bernie Brewer]

Dude, BTW are you gonna sell your pickled eggs?????:rockin:

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Honestly, you are probably right, but I just wanted to state that it DOES work both ways. You might very well not get the BMC people in without BMC, but I stand by my statement then; those are the people you don't want in anyway. ANd if there are customers like me, you would lose some business by having those type of people in...

Personally, I picture 'my' pub as being a classy place. Not a place where there are guys in dirty-1980 rock band T-shirts sitting at my bar beeching about "that mother-fooking Dale Earnhardt Jr. being a dirty mother-fooking driver" because they are drunk off their BMC-swill and have no class (yes, I'm stereotyping a bit, but most of us know these types). If there is someone who likes beer and drinks BMC because thats what is widely available and affordable, but still likes a good restaurant or other good beer, then he will try your brewpub even without BMC. And he will not be the type who acts as above...

Again, beer snob versus beer enthusiast. uhhh... versus people who might be able to be educated. You want to exclude people who might be receptive to learning, then go right ahead.

I'm sure it will affect your bottom line though.

 

[Yooper]

Dude, I'm retiring in three years, and I'd work for you for FREE. What a great vision. If you need an assistant brewer/waitress/cleaning lady- I'm your man (so to speak).

My brewbuddy and I are taking next Monday off work to go up to a brewpub that's about 2 hours each way from here. (http://www.michiganhousecafe.com) The reason- great food, great beer. Since he makes small batches at a time, he supplements his beer choices with quality micro and macros. Bell's, Unibroue, and Skullsplitter as well as the Corona/Heiniken. Bells, SNPA, and a couple others on tap- the rest in bottles. Tim, the brewer, is willing to talk beer and brewing with us, and invited us to come up when he brews. I sure hope they make it- it's a great place.

Now, for a big brewpub, Milwaukee Ale House has some good beers, but they do have one called "Downtown Lights" or something like that. It's for the BMC crowd, and out of our group of 12, 4 drank that and loved it. Now, our group (except for those 4!) are beer snobs, so I think your average group would be maybe 50/50 light beer/good beer drinkers. This place also has some great food and it's crowded.

Thanks for bringing up this subject- lots of food (and beer) for thought.

 

[RoaringBrewer]

Again, beer snob versus beer enthusiast. uhhh... versus people who might be able to be educated. You want to exclude people who might be receptive to learning, then go right ahead.

I'm sure it will affect your bottom line though.

It might effect my bottom line, but the bottom line is I do not want "Real Men Drink Bud" Type people in my establishment. You can also stereotype these people as "hicks" or "Nascar lovers" etc. These people are also generally considered "Potty-mouths" or "Dirty" or "etc."

I said I would gladly take in the person who drinks Bud only due to being negligent/uneducated and want to try something new, but these are the kind of people that would find their way in anyway.

Basically what I'm saying is, do not specifically cater to the crowd from my first description above because they will not come anyway, they come dressed as slobs, or if they do come they will b*tch about their food, your expensive Bud (more expensive than your house beers), etc. because that is their personality/type. If NOT serving BMC keeps this type of person out (which is undoubtedly will), then I would not serve it...

The blue-collar worker who drinks Bud (because he drinks 1 case of week and its cheap), but also likes to try new things, go out for a nice dinner, etc. will don his best blue jeans and shirt and come on out and I'll gladly accept him as a customer and hopefully convert his off his BMC.

I just would NEVER sell BMC at my microbrewery if I expected my microbrewery to survive. That's all... In fact, I've been to probably 30+ micros in the Eastern US and I can't recall any successful ones that sold BMC. I know of some that do sell BMC, but they are also the dimly lit, smoke filled, just getting by, type places.

EDIT: Like I said on page 3 or 4. If it's not broke, don't fix it. Don't cater to the BMC folk just because they are the masses. It hasn't worked for the other plethora of micros I've been to for a reason...

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

LMAO @ Toot.

:rockin:

You know what? That there is more along the lines of -my- dream. Who the heck wants to work 6 days a week and keep a careful eye on the bottom line and theiving cashiers? Fuggit.

I'll have a bar, it'll seat a couple dozen, we'll have some microbrews on tap and we'll have some growlers. If it gets too crowded, you all can grab a blanket and sit outside (on my property). Maybe have a little bonfire if you want. Drink too much? Then just sleep it off... you can camp there as well, but you gotta pay five bucks.


I'd imagine you'd get a lot of motorcycle riders on a night trip. You'd probably also get a lot of free thinkers and hippy types who would road trip for tasty beer. If they don't like each other, they can just keep to a different spot of grass. You could have a seriously cool "Woodstock" sort of vibe... and easily make a grand in a night.


Again... who wants to work 6 days a week? :cross: