Thinking about going electric...

[augiedoggy]

I forgot to include the two on-off switches for the Heating Elements. I could toss in another PID w/ probe to control the temp, but I've had friends who e-brew say that I really don't need to monitor the BK...just let it go.

2 on-off switches going to 2 SSR's w/ heatsinks going to 2 heating elements, but only the HLT has a PID and probe to control temp, and BK is just an ON or OFF setting b/c I don't think I need to control the temp of the BK as tight.

I can tell you from experience you do need something with 3800w and 5 gallons of wort...way too much heat for the boil.and way too vigorous a boil at 100% on the element power. hopefully someone else chimes in here to confirm.

If you had say 2000w element then you could leave it on 100% without any real issue I believe but it will also take forever to get to a boil...


and if your going the route you mentioned you want one three way switch with on-off-on positions (as mentioned by kal above) so theres no chance of you running both at the same time unless you planning on running a 40A 220 line? then it would be fine.

 

[bigirishape]

Yep, good call on the 3 position switch. I completely forgot to put any switches aside from the key start and emergency stop on my list...that would have made for a frustrating build-day...

 

[Bobby_M]

Make it really easy on yourself and use a single SSR controlled with a PID that has a manual mode like the Auber 2352. From the SSR, you can either run it to a single outlet and then just plug the appropriate element in depending on the step you're at. If you don't mind the extra cost, you can use two outlets and use two contactors with a ON/OFF/ON selector switch and then you won't need to plug and unplug. The temp probe will stay in the HLT but the PID will still be controlling the BK boil intensity. Anyone that tells you that you can just let an element rip either doesn't mind waiting for a slow boil to build or doesn't mind boiling over. Think about brewing on a propane burner that doesn't have a knob.

 

[augiedoggy]

or you could buy two mypin TD4 pids with manual mode for the same price as that single Auber 2352....
the TD4 is down to $22 shipped from NY

 

[ryomac]

Regarding the GFCI thing... just don't skimp there. It's a $50 life insurance policy that your wife doesn't need to cash in.

Given the OP's first post, I don't get the impression that he needs to skimp and run a VSSR and watch a thermometer. All you need is one good PID with manual mode, put the RTD or thermocouple in the HLT and then when you're ready to boil you swap element cords and you go manual mode. You don't even need to move the sensor because the PID doesn't need to know the temp in the boil.

If you don't want to swap element cords, you can either use a 25 or 30 amp DPDT switch or a low amperage switch and a pair of DPST contactors (about $13 each on elecdirect.com).

As far as element kits are concerned, I'm partial to this one:

You add the cord, plug and element.

The BK should get a Camco ripple element $27 on amazon.com
The HLT doesn't matter as much but Lowes has a ULWD foldback 5500 watt for like $17.

Z


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[Bobby_M]

or you could but two mypin TD4 pids with manual mode for the same price as that single Auber 2352....
the TD4 is down to $22 shipped from NY

Either way. I don't have any vested interest in Auber products it's just the one I know. I'd like to grab the TD4 to play around with it to see how it compares.

 

[augiedoggy]

Either way. I don't have any vested interest in Auber products it's just the one I know. I'd like to grab the TD4 to play around with it to see how it compares.

I figured... I was just throwing it out there as an option.

I wish someone would do a comparison between the auber sestos and mypin TD4...

 

[kenh]

I figured... I was just throwing it out there as an option.

I wish someone would do a comparison between the auber sestos and mypin TD4...

Why don't you do one? I would but I don't have the money.

 

[augiedoggy]

Why don't you do one? I would but I don't have the money.

lol honestly... I am getting serious grief from the GF about spending money I should be saving for a house.... I just bought a "broken " kegerator with two c02 tanks from a member here who had them on craigslist.... If it wasnt for the repair only requiring me to disassemble the relay and clean the contacts with a scotchbrite I would be in the doghouse right now instead of coming out the hero acquiring the kegerator for the cost of the two tanks if bought new...

 

[bigirishape]

It's starting to look like the big investment will be getting the power run. Been talking with a guy in my club who does electric, and he has a whole ton of parts laying around for work, so in about two weeks going to go check out his setup as he makes a Barleywine (and probably stay to help and sample a few homebrews), and see what we can scrape together...

If anybody does have a review/comparison of the MYPIN and the Auber, I'd love to see it. I'm leaning towards the Auber just because it's the most frequent name I hear, but the MYPIN is a definitely attractive price point...

Thanks again for all the feedback guys (and possibly gals)!

 

[Bobby_M]

I now have the Auber and Mypin in my hands, but it would be a while before I'm able to install them side by side.

 

[iijakii]

Does the MyPin come with a decent manual? I've heard users here post that documentation is less than stellar. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/pid-calabration-462050/ for an example of a simple problem fixed with Auber manual.

 

[augiedoggy]

I now have the Auber and Mypin in my hands, but it would be a while before I'm able to install them side by side.

awesome! I'll be interested to see if the auber in fact does have some advantage over the mypin in functionality.

 

[augiedoggy]

Does the MyPin come with a decent manual? I've heard users here post that documentation is less than stellar. See https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f170/pid-calabration-462050/ for an example of a simple problem fixed with Auber manual.

The documentation does leave a bit to be desired... That said for what we use these for once its wired the documentation is really not needed....
The documentation Does mention homebrewing and I was surprised to see that.

 

[kenh]

Please let us know. I'm using MyPIN and I like my controllers and I'd like to know how they stack up? I'd also like to see pictures of the insides to see how similar or different they are from each other. A buddy of mine claims to have taken a few Chinese PIDs apart at work and he says the ones he took apart were the same inside and that they were the same parts only with different names on the outside.

 

[iijakii]

The documentation does leave a bit to be desired... That said for what we use these for once its wired the documentation is really not needed....
The documentation Does mention homebrewing and I was surprised to see that.

Is it simple enough to setup parameters like that temp-offset and change the alarms? Is the menu easily navigable?

 

[kenh]

Please let us know. I'm using MyPIN and I like my controllers and I'd like to know how they stack up? I'd also like to see pictures of the insides to see how similar or different they are from each other. A buddy of mine claims to have taken a few Chinese PIDs apart at work and he says the ones he took apart were the same inside and that they were the same parts only with different names on the outside.

I found a scanned manual for my MyPIN controller on-line - I use the TA4-SNR controllers.
http://www.kegkits.com/TA4.pdf

 

[augiedoggy]

Is it simple enough to setup parameters like that temp-offset and change the alarms? Is the menu easily navigable?

well the alarms are easy to change and I have the memorized but I have never altered the temp offset. I use mine to heat HLT to a specific temp and hold it there for mash and then raise to another for sparge...
the BK pid just brings wort to a boil whether its in manual or auto mode...
I probaly should read up more on the other options as I found my pid has to keep relearning bcause of the element kill switch, when I turn off the element with the switch the pid logic runs away trying to still control temp and then when I turn it back on it overcompensates..

 

[Brumateur]

I probaly should read up more on the other options as I found my pid has to keep relearning bcause of the element kill switch, when I turn off the element with the switch the pid logic runs away trying to still control temp and then when I turn it back on it overcompensates..

Try to set your "I" parameter to 0. Or smallest possible value (I think it 0.1)

 

[iijakii]

Try to set your "I" parameter to 0. Or smallest possible value (I think it 0.1)

Could you explain what that does?

Also Auggie, I think in manual mode they're not supposed to learn. I know that's a pain to switch to manual everytime you want to turn the element off though.

 

[Brumateur]

From wikipedia :

"The PID controller algorithm involves three separate constant parameters, and is accordingly sometimes called three-term control: the proportional, the integral and derivative values, denoted P, I, and D. Simply put, these values can be interpreted in terms of time: P depends on the present error, I on the accumulation of past errors, and D is a prediction of future errors, based on current rate of change.[1] The weighted sum of these three actions is used to adjust the process via a control element such as the position of a control valve, a damper, or the power supplied to a heating element."

When you kill an element temperature error starts accumulating and it cause an overshoots when you switch it On. Setting I parameter to 0 prevents accumulation.

 

[iijakii]

Ok cool, thank you. I see in that TA4 manual linked above you can set I = OFF.

Edit: Also see in the menu there's the PVF value for temperature offset. Figured it had it, just wanted to make sure. I'll definitely be buying three of these and saving ~$65. And yeah I was thinking of the TD4 all along. I figure the menu basics are the same through them though.

 

[augiedoggy]

Ok cool, thank you. I see in that TA4 manual linked above you can set I = OFF.

Edit: Also see in the menu there's the PVF value for temperature offset. Figured it had it, just wanted to make sure. I'll definitely be buying three of these and saving ~$65.

Td4 is a better choice (manual mode) and only about 22 bucks shipped from a NY seller on eBay...

 

[augiedoggy]

From wikipedia :

"The PID controller algorithm involves three separate constant parameters, and is accordingly sometimes called three-term control: the proportional, the integral and derivative values, denoted P, I, and D. Simply put, these values can be interpreted in terms of time: P depends on the present error, I on the accumulation of past errors, and D is a prediction of future errors, based on current rate of change.[1] The weighted sum of these three actions is used to adjust the process via a control element such as the position of a control valve, a damper, or the power supplied to a heating element."

When you kill an element temperature error starts accumulating and it cause an overshoots when you switch it On. Setting I parameter to 0 prevents accumulation.

Thanks for this information.