I don't think Eugene is totally Negan at all, rather just doing what he has to do to stay alive...like he's done the entire show. He is a coward, but verry intelligent and cunning. One thing that looks certain to me is Negan is convinced Eugene is 100% Negan AND the new Saviors' Doctor. Otherwise, its a very risky move to kill your Doctor.
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I don't think Eugene is totally Negan at all, rather just doing what he has to do to stay alive...like he's done the entire show. He is a coward, but verry intelligent and cunning. One thing that looks certain to me is Negan is convinced Eugene is 100% Negan AND the new Saviors' Doctor. Otherwise, its a very risky move to kill your Doctor.
I think killing the doctor was a sign of Negan's unraveling.
lupulinaddict
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It seems like that smirk Eugene gave was a sign his plan is working, and he is playing Negan. But...has rick ever had to deal with a traitor in the show? I wouldn't be surprised if Negan has Eugene prove his loyalty somehow by doing something against rick or someone in his group. I still think Eugene should be pro-rick, but from a writers standpoint what if they made Eugene flip sides and play his "im the coward and need to survive card? " Would make things more interesting and something they haven't touched on in the show.
The smirk may also mean Eugene figured out he has it made either way. He already knows he is indispensable to Negan so if he is stuck there then he doesn't have a bad gig. If rick takes out Negan, he is back in his group. Unless he gets bit he is safe.
The smirk may also mean Eugene figured out he has it made either way. He already knows he is indispensable to Negan so if he is stuck there then he doesn't have a bad gig. If rick takes out Negan, he is back in his group. Unless he gets bit he is safe.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
Yeah, he killed his best friend.
A great episode that, in many ways, got back to exactly why so many people were interested in the Walking Dead in the first place: seeing people desperately fight the undead while scavenging what they need. Unfortunately it ends with Sasha and Rosita on the brink of making some very, very stupid decisions.
Rick and Michonne's Excellent Adventure
Riding around the countryside scavenging and having sex in the back of a van may sound like a nightmare to a lot of us, but in the Walking Dead it's the closest you can come to honeymoon. Sure, Rick nearly died doing something stupid, but overall it was a pleasant trip and a bright spot in an otherwise dark season.
...But It's Not Enough
Unfortunately the junkyard people have more people and that means they need more guns, one for everybody. Rick and Michonne seem game to go searching, but Rosita is not having any of it.
Rosita's Not Having a Good Time
After a....let's call it a rough day at the office, Rosita is angry and blaming everyone. First she blame Gabriel for telling her not to kill Negan, as if that somehow screwed up her brilliant "shoot Negan with one bullet" plan, then she blames Rick and Michonne for taking too long for her tastes. So she goes to the one person stupid enough to go along with her plan, Sasha...and now we see how Sonequa Martin-Green will be written out of the show to be a Star Trek captain.
Return to Oceanside?
So it looks like Tara is finally spilling the beans to Rick about Oceanside, allowing the show to eventually bring them into the whole "revenge" fold. How it will happen is unclear, but I'm curious to see how anyone will even get in talking distance.
Rick and Michonne's Excellent Adventure
Riding around the countryside scavenging and having sex in the back of a van may sound like a nightmare to a lot of us, but in the Walking Dead it's the closest you can come to honeymoon. Sure, Rick nearly died doing something stupid, but overall it was a pleasant trip and a bright spot in an otherwise dark season.
...But It's Not Enough
Unfortunately the junkyard people have more people and that means they need more guns, one for everybody. Rick and Michonne seem game to go searching, but Rosita is not having any of it.
Rosita's Not Having a Good Time
After a....let's call it a rough day at the office, Rosita is angry and blaming everyone. First she blame Gabriel for telling her not to kill Negan, as if that somehow screwed up her brilliant "shoot Negan with one bullet" plan, then she blames Rick and Michonne for taking too long for her tastes. So she goes to the one person stupid enough to go along with her plan, Sasha...and now we see how Sonequa Martin-Green will be written out of the show to be a Star Trek captain.
Return to Oceanside?
So it looks like Tara is finally spilling the beans to Rick about Oceanside, allowing the show to eventually bring them into the whole "revenge" fold. How it will happen is unclear, but I'm curious to see how anyone will even get in talking distance.
So I guess it's Rosita's turn to be an annoying brat. I'm starting to think it may the symptom of some post apocalyptic STD.
It started with Sasha. Remember? When her brother died? She started the whole moping around I'm not a part of the group reckless whiny teenager thing.
Then Abraham started doing it. And according to Rosita, ole Mother Dick himself had been knocking boots with Sasha, so maybe he contracted it. Remember, he started jumping out of moving cars and taking moronic risks.
Well I wonder if before he was used for batting practice if he had one last go at Rosita. Because now she's doing the same I'm not part of the group whiny brat thing.
As fun as they are to look at, I hope both her and Sasha don't make it to season 8. I know that won't happen. Likely, Sasha is doomed but Rosita and her short shorts will live to fight another day.
It started with Sasha. Remember? When her brother died? She started the whole moping around I'm not a part of the group reckless whiny teenager thing.
Then Abraham started doing it. And according to Rosita, ole Mother Dick himself had been knocking boots with Sasha, so maybe he contracted it. Remember, he started jumping out of moving cars and taking moronic risks.
Well I wonder if before he was used for batting practice if he had one last go at Rosita. Because now she's doing the same I'm not part of the group whiny brat thing.
As fun as they are to look at, I hope both her and Sasha don't make it to season 8. I know that won't happen. Likely, Sasha is doomed but Rosita and her short shorts will live to fight another day.
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
I know Michone really cares for Rick and all but I don't buy that she would just fall apart and give up if he were to die. She had loved people before and had a family prior to the apocalypse and losing them didn't end her. If anything it made her stronger. I don't like that they've made her into a "domesticated" character now that she is part of the group and has formed a special relationship with Rick.
I remember when they first introduced her. A bad ass samurai with freakin zombie pets! Just my 2 cents...
I remember when they first introduced her. A bad ass samurai with freakin zombie pets! Just my 2 cents...
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
@MCZERO, Consider, though, that she was roaming around herself for such a long time that she felt (and was viewed) as a walker/roamer. She had no ties to people, she was a wild animal (poor description). She got an opportunity again, likely the last time in her life, to love again and she fell into it head-over-heels. Love does stupid (errrrrrr) things ... and makes you do stupid things.
With that said, I agree.
I also think they should have killed off Carol when she flip flopped back to the weak Carol we all were introduced to for the third (?) time. BUT now it looks like she is back, again, as cold hearted bad ass Carol. I swear, if she flops back to the weakling I'm going to strangle her myself.
With that said, I agree.
I also think they should have killed off Carol when she flip flopped back to the weak Carol we all were introduced to for the third (?) time. BUT now it looks like she is back, again, as cold hearted bad ass Carol. I swear, if she flops back to the weakling I'm going to strangle her myself.
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
I definitely get it, the death of Michone's family totally broke her. I like Rick's little pep talk to her "I'd be ok with losing you. You have to be ok with losing me." A little cold there... Maybe some rephrasing would have been good.
As for Carol, the preview to next week's episode looks to have her going out on her own again. Looks like she may even run into some more Saviors. We'll see what becomes of that.
As for Carol, the preview to next week's episode looks to have her going out on her own again. Looks like she may even run into some more Saviors. We'll see what becomes of that.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
Secretly (not so secretly) hoping she loses her head
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
Interesting thought, notice how lazy they're getting when it comes to killing zombies? Chopping off heads, throwing torsos, etc.
GrogNerd
mean old man
notice how lazy they're getting with the CGI with everything other than killing zombies?
BigPicture
Well-Known Member
This series has now "Jumped the Shark". You can only beat a dead horse for so long................................................................ Wow. I'm rooting for the bad guys now. Even the interesting options have a ridiculous quality involved.
Oh well, seems like the old recipe for doing things has repeated itself again. :hs:
Oh well, seems like the old recipe for doing things has repeated itself again. :hs:
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
What if this whole thing isn't real? What if it's all in Rick's mind? What if he's still laying in the hospital bed in a coma?
That's a theory, and it would be super lame. And super played out from the 1980s.
Another is that a much older Carl is telling the story. We may have discussed this already.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
Rick dreaming: Not a chance
Carl story telling: Maybe (I'd actually dig this angle)
Carl story telling: Maybe (I'd actually dig this angle)
I still want to see a show, even just an episode after the end of this show, where we see how Judith turns out. She's only known the post ZA world.
GrogNerd
mean old man
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
Really don't know how Carl's made it this long. He's a moron.
And just about fatally shot, TWICE.
Or..
Final episode:
Grandma Carol closes a book, sitting in the floor with 3 kids. "And that's how babies are made."
I could see Oceanside being bribed with RTE peace offering. They don't fight, or send limited numbers in order to remain recluse, but offer the rest of the guns needed. They also harbour Judith and Maggie's baby.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
One hell of an episode in which the Kingdom and all the King's men get on the "Kill the Saviors" bandwagon! We get murder Carol and murder Morgan? Double bonus!
2 Dead Knights
Did anybody not see Benjamin's death coming? It was pretty obvious that Benjamin, the sweet innocent guy who just wants to learn how to help better, had a giant bullseye on him. Richard's death, I have to admit, I didn't see coming. Morgan snapping, losing his ****, was a bit of a surprise and it's hard to not feel blindsided, but looking back I realize why Morgan was clinging so hard to his Aikido stick peace thing, he was desperate for something to ward off the bloodlust and madness that he never quite got rid of; though it seems like Morgan might be just a touch more "stable" now, still able to focus on a particular enemy and have a conversation with Carol, however clipped. Credit to Lennie Bruce for doing such a great job with all of his scenes on this episode.
Carol's Back Baby!
Speaking of, now that Carol knows the truth, she's full steam ahead on the whole Saviors War. Maybe a little less bloodthirsty, she's nonetheless loaded up with guns and ready to go to war. Part of that, at least, seems to be Ezekiel, who seems to understand that charging into battle immediately may not be the greatest of ideas and calms Carol down. Carol, Ezekiel and a tiger? The Saviors don't stand a chance.
Great Side Characters This Week
Gavin's bored/frustrated middle manager shtick was on full display here, in a way that almost seems funny. Richard's reveal, his guilt and his own personal madness were well on display. Meanwhile the line of the night is "Okay, I think I just pissed myself." from "Nabila", who is apparently one of the farmers/gardeners.
3 episodes left for us to get to the inevitable start of the war, looks like next episode is Sasha and Rosita's less than brilliant assassination plan.
2 Dead Knights
Did anybody not see Benjamin's death coming? It was pretty obvious that Benjamin, the sweet innocent guy who just wants to learn how to help better, had a giant bullseye on him. Richard's death, I have to admit, I didn't see coming. Morgan snapping, losing his ****, was a bit of a surprise and it's hard to not feel blindsided, but looking back I realize why Morgan was clinging so hard to his Aikido stick peace thing, he was desperate for something to ward off the bloodlust and madness that he never quite got rid of; though it seems like Morgan might be just a touch more "stable" now, still able to focus on a particular enemy and have a conversation with Carol, however clipped. Credit to Lennie Bruce for doing such a great job with all of his scenes on this episode.
Carol's Back Baby!
Speaking of, now that Carol knows the truth, she's full steam ahead on the whole Saviors War. Maybe a little less bloodthirsty, she's nonetheless loaded up with guns and ready to go to war. Part of that, at least, seems to be Ezekiel, who seems to understand that charging into battle immediately may not be the greatest of ideas and calms Carol down. Carol, Ezekiel and a tiger? The Saviors don't stand a chance.
Great Side Characters This Week
Gavin's bored/frustrated middle manager shtick was on full display here, in a way that almost seems funny. Richard's reveal, his guilt and his own personal madness were well on display. Meanwhile the line of the night is "Okay, I think I just pissed myself." from "Nabila", who is apparently one of the farmers/gardeners.
3 episodes left for us to get to the inevitable start of the war, looks like next episode is Sasha and Rosita's less than brilliant assassination plan.
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
I personally am glad to have at least some of old Morgan back. Maybe not the complete mentally broken down Morgan but all that zen stuff was killing me.
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
I foresee two more painfully slow and soap-ish episodes in the future.
hio3791
Well-Known Member
Yup, that was strange. But as I watched, I was also hoping to see Morgan go mad samurai on the saviors and kill that group right then and there then turn to Ezikiel and declare himself as the new king.
That would've been pretty cool.
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I don't like Morgan. He's a tool if you ask me. Nobody else knew what Richard did and nobody went to break it up. Odd. I also hate when everybody gives up their guns. That angle bugs me. I know the show has to keep moving, but Wth!! Will a good guy please shoot a bad guy!!!
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
My wife decided to stop tuning in because it's too damn slow! I agree but a little more invested
I think everyone was just shocked. Morgan, after all, had been the quiet and peaceful "stick guy sensei" for so long that nobody suspected his murderous side (and I bet a lot of the audience forgot about it too). I believe Gavin also said something about "staying out of it", though that could have just been to the Saviors.
lupulinaddict
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That's what my wife said. I think it's because nobody there is a hardened fighter. I think Richard is the only one that would have done something about it, seems like the rest of them aren't used to the brutality outside the kingdom.
How spread out are the saviors? Have we seen the guys that take from hilltop or kingdom at Negans place? Gavin, is that the name from the guy that takes from Ezekiel? And then the guy that acts like Negan that takes from hilltop? I don't remember seeing them at home with negan like Dwight is. Do they live at different outpost like the one ricks group killed earlier? The first truckload kingdom gave was pretty full compared to twelve cantaloupes. I wonder if they supply an outpost or negan? That one time carl and negan hid in the truck I don't remember seeing the hilltop guy when carl attacked them, and that's where the truck left from if, I'm not mistaken. If they live in different areas it will be hard to bring them down, it would have to be a choreographed attack.
GrogNerd
mean old man
choreographed attack. made me lol a little. imagining a ballet fight, like West Side Story
but yes, it would have to be a coordinated attack. and it wouldn't be that difficult
one group kills the Savior group coming to pick up their tribute, then hides behind their walls. whichever has the better defenses on their walls, probably the Kingdom.
they wait for the Saviors to attack, a when they do, the Hilltop, the Junkyard people and Alexandrians (plus Seaside, if they join) ambush and attack the Saviors' flanks & rear
much better than trying to assault the Saviors' compound. takes a much larger force to attack a defended position than it does to defend that position and a small force can ambush and successfully attack a larger force.
the fact that Negan has rocket launchers is worrisome, plus Eugene's armored zombies
but yes, it would have to be a coordinated attack. and it wouldn't be that difficult
one group kills the Savior group coming to pick up their tribute, then hides behind their walls. whichever has the better defenses on their walls, probably the Kingdom.
they wait for the Saviors to attack, a when they do, the Hilltop, the Junkyard people and Alexandrians (plus Seaside, if they join) ambush and attack the Saviors' flanks & rear
much better than trying to assault the Saviors' compound. takes a much larger force to attack a defended position than it does to defend that position and a small force can ambush and successfully attack a larger force.
the fact that Negan has rocket launchers is worrisome, plus Eugene's armored zombies
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible
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I havn't read this thread for about two years. I watch Talking Dead, and I always wonder (not really) why they are so much more excited about the show than I am these days. OK, the end of last season and the first episode of this season was totally fooking awesome. Everything else since has been lame soap crap. I have a sneaky suspicion that the last episode will be awesome again. Is this the way to run a series?
TwistedGray
El Jefe Brewing Company
I couldn't agree more...I wish they'd be a little more honest in the Talking Dead.
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
Seems like the last episode this season will be our group gearing up for war against the Saviors. The war will probably go on for the next season or two with our group losing a lot of people. Certainly a couple of important characters.
As for if the pace will pick up, hard to say. They really like to start the seasons strong and end them strong with mostly filler in the middle. I honestly would be happier if they did more back stories on some of the main characters instead of spending episodes on people just going around and collecting supplies.
As for if the pace will pick up, hard to say. They really like to start the seasons strong and end them strong with mostly filler in the middle. I honestly would be happier if they did more back stories on some of the main characters instead of spending episodes on people just going around and collecting supplies.
They never even do flashbacks to pre-apocolypse anymore. It might be interesting to see some characters' backstories, IF it gives us information to why they do things a certain way today. They give some monologues like that now, but why never any imagery to go with it?
m_c_zero
Well-Known Member
I'd definitely like to see what made Negan the way he is.
From interviews with Scott Gimple and what-not, it sounds like we'll get to see Negan's backstory at some point. (Robert Kirkman is still publishing it in a short run comic, thus why I think we haven't seen any of it yet.)
He did that with the Governor.
There was 3 short books detailing how the Governor became, well, the Governor.
An episode in which very little happens, but which sets us up for probably the most tense episodes of the Walking Dead since last season's finale.
The Saviors Get a New Doctor
With the OTHER Dr. Carson dead, the Saviors need a new one, and the Dr. Carson of Hilltop is the ready made replacement. As a joke, perhaps, the Saviors offer up band aids to replace the good doctor, but that leaves the hilltop sans a medical professional to treat Maggie (and everyone else, for that matter).
Gregory Pulls his Dick Out
So after Simon backs him up, all the sudden Gregory thinks he can command loyalty, but this is likely a fatal mistake. According to the preview it looks like Gregory is actually going to try to kill Maggie
Sasha and Rosita's Terrible Plan
So look, Sasha and Rosita's revenge plan is terrible. Just a vague idea of "get in a tall building and take a shot and if that doesn't work we'll assault a god damn fortress"; this is not a good plan and it predictably goes poorly. We get a vague "death" for Sasha that is potentially vague enough to keep Sasha alive if the actress' new Star Trek series doesn't work out, which overall isn't a bad idea; Sasha is one of the most compelling and interesting characters on the show.
Is Eugene a Traitor?
So Eugene seemed pretty eager to go run and tell everyone about the disposable Savior's death, but is he truly a Savior? Or is it that he sees that Sasha and Rosita's plan is crap? I feel it's the latter, the show "faking us out".
The Saviors Get a New Doctor
With the OTHER Dr. Carson dead, the Saviors need a new one, and the Dr. Carson of Hilltop is the ready made replacement. As a joke, perhaps, the Saviors offer up band aids to replace the good doctor, but that leaves the hilltop sans a medical professional to treat Maggie (and everyone else, for that matter).
Gregory Pulls his Dick Out
So after Simon backs him up, all the sudden Gregory thinks he can command loyalty, but this is likely a fatal mistake. According to the preview it looks like Gregory is actually going to try to kill Maggie
Sasha and Rosita's Terrible Plan
So look, Sasha and Rosita's revenge plan is terrible. Just a vague idea of "get in a tall building and take a shot and if that doesn't work we'll assault a god damn fortress"; this is not a good plan and it predictably goes poorly. We get a vague "death" for Sasha that is potentially vague enough to keep Sasha alive if the actress' new Star Trek series doesn't work out, which overall isn't a bad idea; Sasha is one of the most compelling and interesting characters on the show.
Is Eugene a Traitor?
So Eugene seemed pretty eager to go run and tell everyone about the disposable Savior's death, but is he truly a Savior? Or is it that he sees that Sasha and Rosita's plan is crap? I feel it's the latter, the show "faking us out".
