The Walking dead

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I hope Carol sticks around. The Kingdom seems to be a strong group but they need a real leader. Ezekiel has a damn tiger which commands respect, but he doesn't seem to have a backbone.
 
dmtaylor said:
Interestingly, I believe I've heard someplace that those few who have actually cannibalized report that human flesh tastes most similar to pork. So... they probably would never notice.

I agree with the spit comment, that's all this is.
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Yup, humans are sometimes referred to long pork because of the similar physical characteristics/anatomy.
 
GrogNerd said:
seem to remember a thread here on HBT about movies/tv scenes which made you cry

my list:

  • Old Yeller
  • Brian's Song
  • M*A*S*H (when Radar brings news Henry's plane was shot down)
  • Rudy (how can a kid sacking a quarterback make me so emotional?)
  • Return of the King ("my friends, you bow to no one")
  • Shawshank Redemption (I mist up when Red starts talking about missing his friend and I'm full-blown weeping by the time Andy sees him walking down the beach)
there. I said it
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Sheesh, I can't believe you left out Where the Red Fern Grows.
 
65.jpg
 
So, I finally caught up with the current season. We get a picture of the way the Saviors work from within thanks to Daryl. A few notes on the latest episode:

So Neagan Is One Hell Of a Manipulator
Theoretically, Dwight should want Negan dead, but Negan has managed to manipulate things so that Dwight is doing some incredibly dangerous things in order to remain in Negan's favor. Negan knows how to manipulate people, how to pull their psychological strings...and hes' working his magic on Daryl.

Negan Has a Harem
As per the comics, Negan has a harem, made up of women who have sold themselves to Negan in order to gain his favor, or prevent their loved ones from dying. How much will that play in to Negan's (assumed) eventual downfall.

Zombies As Weapons
So, the lowest of the low on the Negan totem pole appears to be the guys working the walls. They chain up zombies to the barriers around the compound, helping to secure it. It doesn't look like a pleasant job, could Daryl wind up like that?

So how does this all play out? Will Daryl turn Negan? Will Dwight turn Rick? This should be interesting.
 
I have NOT read the comics, so please, no spoilers, but I get the feeling this episode introduces us to a couple of the critical characters that will help to bring Negan down.... assuming they don't get killed before that. And I think Daryl is the perfect judge of character to figure out which ones to trust. In a sick way, it will be good having him on the inside, no matter what happens. I imagine that eventually Negan will be so impressed by Daryl as to let him out of solitary, long enough anyway so that he can continue to figure out how to play the game and figure different individual people out.
 
Zuljin said:
They are certainly building up to a Savior rebellion.

I think Dwight admires Darryl.
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I think they're building towards a sort of alliance/perfect storm to bring Negan down. A rebellion, the Kingdom, Alexandria and Hilltop teaming up, etc.
 
slym2none said:
Don't put the cart before the horse...

;)
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Not cool if this is some sort of hint because you read the comics...spoilers are not welcome here.

There

Are

Rules


Damn, I'm really liking this Negan guy.


Those who post spoilers should have to meet Lucile.
 
HoppyDaze said:
Not cool if this is some sort of hint because you read the comics...spoilers are not welcome here.

There

Are

Rules


Damn, I'm really liking this Negan guy.


Those who post spoilers should have to meet Lucile.
Click to expand...

Bite me. The unpredictability of the show itself should make my post above worthwhile, whether I am actually alluding to what happens in the comics or not.

Nothing spoiled, nobody should be bothered.

Sheesh.
 
Good lord! The commercials!

And just snipe Negan at any time. His whole thing would fall apart. Granted, we know more than they do about the Saviors, but just take out Negan and that whole tribe falls apart.
 
A few thoughts on the latest episode, which was a bit of a snoozer.

Rick Is Broken
As Negan himself points out during the episode, old Rick would have fought to the death, he would have done some major damage. In making himself responsible for other people and caring about them, Rick has weakened himself, and now he's so terrified of losing people that he's looking for a couple of lost handguns of little importance because he's afraid Negan might kill a relatively minor member of the community that he wouldn't have cared about a season and a half ago. The rest of the group shows different, little signs of rebellion, but Rick himself is in a bad, bad place.

Michonne The Sniper?
*SPOILERS FOR THE COMICS* In the comics, Andrea is still alive, a badass sniper and is Rick's significant other. With Andrea dead, Michonne has taken over on the significant other portion...but could the show be moving towards her being the badass sniper too? *COMICS SPOILERS OVER* Michonne was practicing with a .308 bolt-action rifle in the field...before Rick gave the gun to Negan. Could we have a badass sniper who can also slice people up with a katana? Is this ****ing Shadowrun now?

Small Rebellions, Big Payoffs?
So far, after the head-smashing season opener, we've seen little signs of rebellion from various characters, that trend continues in Alexandria. From Rosita getting a gun from a walker and asking Eugene to make a bullet, to Michonne to Carl's angry outburst, it's pretty clear Negan's reign wont' last long. Next week we get a look at the Hilltop, if Alexandria, the Hilltop, the Kingdom and the potential little rebellion within Negan's ranks can unite, the Saviors might just be beaten after all.

Rick Knows
For a long time, Walking Dead fans wondered if Rick truly knew that Judith probably isn't his kid...well we get that answer tonight. Rick is positive Judith is the result of Lori and Shane doing the horizontal post-apocalyptic mambo. Rick knows, but he is raising Judith as his own, that should lead to some interesting situations in the future.
 
Oh, and I just read through all the comics to-date. Very different than the show, so you couldn't quite predict how anything is going to play out based on the comics.

Just an FYI, I could write a paragraph of what happens in the comics here, but you'd still be in the dark.
 
TwistedGray said:
When was it? Okay, maybe about 10-20% of the entirety of the show/comics where, but it's never been about the zombies.
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I understand where you are going with this statement but throughout the show they've had to deal with the hordes of walking dead. Now though it's like 1 or two random zombies every now and then.
 
Btw, Rick really should have bashed in Negan's skull when he was killing that zombie with the candlestick. Hopefully that is how he will go, by his own Lucille.
 
Overall I find myself losing a little interest this season, not quite as invested as I was in the past. Too much sloooooow, drawwwwwn out monologuing from Negan, with lame jokes, and not enough action. I'm not interested in much of anything that Negan has to say, yet they stretch out every single one of his scenes like they're so friggin awesome. Meh.

I really cannot say why anyone didn't just snipe Negan 557 times already. Any of the Saviors. Anyone at all. Why wouldn't they? He comes right out in the open all the time, doesn't hide like he probably should. Would someone else just step up to take his place? Maybe. Maybe that's the only reason that it doesn't matter, is because there's so many of these egomaniacs that it doesn't even matter which one it is. Maybe this isn't even the first Negan, maybe he's the fifth one already or something, who knows. Although, if that were true, then Negan might keep hidden and not come right out in the open all the time, so, that can't be right either. Weird. This might be akin to one of the Hitler/Hussein dictatorship kind of things where everyone is so impressed and brainwashed that no one will challenge. Maybe I need to learn more about dictatorships. They just make zero sense to me, but I guess they exist, somehow. Yeah, weird.

And then the people of Alexandria didn't even bother to develop any plan whatsoever on what to do when Negan's guys showed up. Rick's really lost it, at least in the short term, and so maybe someone else should have recognized this and stepped up and seriously challenged his authority during his time of weakness. They can't afford to have leadership this weak at all, ever. Michonne is just as dumb as the rest of 'em if, like she says, she'll try to accept the way things are. What kind of morons are these people? I guess they're not all morons, but they could openly challenge Rick, too. What's he going to do, argue with them? Ooh, scary.

The show just doesn't seem to fit with real life anymore. Not that this show was ever totally realistic, of course. But if they don't get rid of Negan by the beginning of next season, I think I may grow bored to the point of turning off the TV.

I'm not at all surprised or excited at the Shane/Judith revelation either, I always figured as much, and who cares, what difference does it make now.

For some reason I'm still looking forward to the Hilltop stuff and seeing what Jesus is up to. That guy is one of the best newer characters. And I wonder if after Maggie recovers, maybe she'll be the one to kick Rick in the nads as he deserves. I think we're eventually going to see some cool stuff out of Maggie, even if it doesn't happen until the very end of the season. Heck, even Coral can see what needs to be done, and isn't even terribly afraid to lose an arm. Maybe he'll challenge his own dad. Not sure how that would turn out. Don't spoil it for me if I'm right on any of this.

Okay, that's enough for today.
 
I am glad I have stopped watching this show. They lost me right after the Wolves. (probably about the time Glen survived the the dumpster, I guess)

Z Nation is where it's at for mindless zombie viewing. It is dumb, tongue in cheek, and ridiculous and knows that it is.
 
slym2none said:
Bite me. The unpredictability of the show itself should make my post above worthwhile, whether I am actually alluding to what happens in the comics or not.



Nothing spoiled, nobody should be bothered.



Sheesh.
Click to expand...


I think maybe you took my post waaaaaaaay too seriously. I still think bringing the comics version of it in this thread is super dumb
 
I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.
 
Talgrath said:
I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.
Click to expand...

1. What about Alexandria, the Hilltop, AND the Kingdom? I suspect they may have more in numbers; however, and it's a big however, the saviors have all of Alexandria's guns. That's HUGE!

2. Your blanket statement "pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer" is unfounded. Yes, those we have met have been rather so, but what about those we have not met. Maybe there are more Saviors that are not tried and tested killers than there are, and the groups you have met are only those that go to pillage.

3. If Rick or someone killed Negan it would not have been the end of Alexandria. You should have noted that based on the quantity and quality of their arsenal. They could have killed this smaller group, what 50-60 or so, that came to Alexandria. That's a HUGE dent given who exactly made the trek!
 
martiniw2olives said:
Negan will go down in the most dramatic way. I think King Ezekiel's tiger will eat him during the showdown with Rick.
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Mostly agree, because for the show. While some random townie or backdrop Savior simply popping him in the head would be dramic in the instant, building a Savior story and taking out Negan in some epic battle is for the show.

Talgrath said:
A few thoughts on the latest episode, which was a bit of a snoozer.

Rick Is Broken
As Negan himself points out during the episode, old Rick would have fought to the death, he would have done some major damage. In making himself responsible for other people and caring about them, Rick has weakened himself, and now he's so terrified of losing people that he's looking for a couple of lost handguns of little importance because he's afraid Negan might kill a relatively minor member of the community that he wouldn't have cared about a season and a half ago. The rest of the group shows different, little signs of rebellion, but Rick himself is in a bad, bad place.

Rick Knows
For a long time, Walking Dead fans wondered if Rick truly knew that Judith probably isn't his kid...well we get that answer tonight. Rick is positive Judith is the result of Lori and Shane doing the horizontal post-apocalyptic mambo. Rick knows, but he is raising Judith as his own, that should lead to some interesting situations in the future.
Click to expand...

Mostly disagree, because last paragraph. Rick has always cared about and for the people around him. It's a large part of why they follow him. Hell, he's raising a baby that isn't his, and the mother, albeit she was his wife, is dead. He cares.

He's a long game player, too. He plots and watches for the right time. He makes the right time. When they got caught by Terminus, he didn't got balls out from go. He tried, and he got walked into a trap, and then into a box car. He got in the car rather than make a last ditch desperate and futile bid for survival. He learned from that. Rick is taking the time to heal himself while formulating the next steps. "Mercy for the lost, vengeance for the plunderers."

m_c_zero said:
This show doesn't even feel like it's about zombies anymore.
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Zomibes aren't really about zombies. Not as an entire ethos. There's a lot to be said for what an individual zombie may represent, but the whole zombie apocalypse is maybe 1/4 about zombies.

Talgrath said:
I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.
Click to expand...

It depends heavily on how it's done. We know not all Saviors want to be Saviors. It's how they play that will swing it, so they need to be played. Get a group like that by themselves and plan with them. Stealthily sow dissention among the ranks. Spring the trap.

Take out Negan fast, sniper style, while he's out with a crew. Maybe snipe a crew member or two. Someone who looks like a die hard. Surround the crew and offer then a deal. Or not. Just kill em all, but probably not. Then, ride up to Saviorville with Negan's head on a stick.

The worst way would be to take out Negan without a control plan in place. If he doesn't have a second in place, and he may be enough sociopath not to, we can best believe a few people have designs on it.
 
TwistedGray said:
1. What about Alexandria, the Hilltop, AND the Kingdom? I suspect they may have more in numbers; however, and it's a big however, the saviors have all of Alexandria's guns. That's HUGE!

2. Your blanket statement "pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer" is unfounded. Yes, those we have met have been rather so, but what about those we have not met. Maybe there are more Saviors that are not tried and tested killers than there are, and the groups you have met are only those that go to pillage.

3. If Rick or someone killed Negan it would not have been the end of Alexandria. You should have noted that based on the quantity and quality of their arsenal. They could have killed this smaller group, what 50-60 or so, that came to Alexandria. That's a HUGE dent given who exactly made the trek!
Click to expand...

When Negan came to Alexandria was the perfect time to take him out. They funneled themselves right into a funnel. Negan was there in the open. Even if he had his most loyal, and we don't know he did, Rick and crew could have taken enough out for Darryl to escape and most of the townsfolk would have lived, too. But, because for the show.
 
If the Saviors were to get pissed off and kill everyone in Alexandria, well then there disappears a whole lot of people to procure stuff for them. Like your typical pyramid scheme, Negan *needs* Alexandria and *needs* to find more and more and more little towns to feed them and to find them guns and resources. Without exponential growth and cooperation, the whole thing soon fails. This is also why he only kills one person at a time (or okay, maybe two). If he just kills everyone who disagrees with him, then who's gonna find all the free stuff for him? It defeats the whole pyramid scheme. Destroy every little man who crosses you, and then you end up doing everything yourself, which reduces your strength instead of increasing it. Maybe this is what happens later, I don't know, I haven't read the comics. Maybe when resources get tight or too many people get killed off, the whole system implodes when you have a revolt from within the Saviors who finally figure out that Negan is just one person and the pyramid cannot go on forever, because resources and willpower are limited and eventually the empire falls on its own, regardless of what Alexandria provides or does not provide. Perhaps the best strategy is to just wait for the inevitable, just survive for a while, and try not to get any of your own killed while waiting. Negan won't kill you if you're good at what you do. However he's likely to get killed by his own Saviors when he reaches the point where he can no longer deliver on his own promises to them. Just wait for the mutiny, civil war, whatever. Maybe that's the way to go. And maybe, just maybe, Daryl and Dwight will be the ones to fan the early flames of mutiny.

Just thinking out loud again.
 
dmtaylor said:
Maybe this isn't even the first Negan, maybe he's the fifth one already or something, who knows.
Click to expand...

I like your thinking here. Maybe the Negan we are seeing isn't the actual leader. Maybe he's just a sergeant and there's some actual general that we haven't seen yet. Works with the whole "we are Negan" ideology.
 

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