The Walking dead

[dmtaylor]

Correction, they should've shot him through the gate when the curtain was still up.

Yeah, no kidding. "Little pig, little pig, let me....." *ka-pow!!!!*

It's the idiocy of missing opportunities like this that's making me lose interest, slowly but surely.

 

[CGVT]

I am glad I have stopped watching this show. They lost me right after the Wolves. (probably about the time Glen survived the the dumpster, I guess)

Z Nation is where it's at for mindless zombie viewing. It is dumb, tongue in cheek, and ridiculous and knows that it is.

 

[HoppyDaze]

Bite me. The unpredictability of the show itself should make my post above worthwhile, whether I am actually alluding to what happens in the comics or not.



Nothing spoiled, nobody should be bothered.



Sheesh.

I think maybe you took my post waaaaaaaay too seriously. I still think bringing the comics version of it in this thread is super dumb

 

[Talgrath]

I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.

 

[TwistedGray]

I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.

1. What about Alexandria, the Hilltop, AND the Kingdom? I suspect they may have more in numbers; however, and it's a big however, the saviors have all of Alexandria's guns. That's HUGE!

2. Your blanket statement "pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer" is unfounded. Yes, those we have met have been rather so, but what about those we have not met. Maybe there are more Saviors that are not tried and tested killers than there are, and the groups you have met are only those that go to pillage.

3. If Rick or someone killed Negan it would not have been the end of Alexandria. You should have noted that based on the quantity and quality of their arsenal. They could have killed this smaller group, what 50-60 or so, that came to Alexandria. That's a HUGE dent given who exactly made the trek!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I think I just lost respect for the writers and story, too many changes that don't make sense, the whole show was based on keeping the group safe and together, now??

 

[Zuljin]

Negan will go down in the most dramatic way. I think King Ezekiel's tiger will eat him during the showdown with Rick.

Mostly agree, because for the show. While some random townie or backdrop Savior simply popping him in the head would be dramic in the instant, building a Savior story and taking out Negan in some epic battle is for the show.

A few thoughts on the latest episode, which was a bit of a snoozer.

Rick Is Broken
As Negan himself points out during the episode, old Rick would have fought to the death, he would have done some major damage. In making himself responsible for other people and caring about them, Rick has weakened himself, and now he's so terrified of losing people that he's looking for a couple of lost handguns of little importance because he's afraid Negan might kill a relatively minor member of the community that he wouldn't have cared about a season and a half ago. The rest of the group shows different, little signs of rebellion, but Rick himself is in a bad, bad place.

Rick Knows
For a long time, Walking Dead fans wondered if Rick truly knew that Judith probably isn't his kid...well we get that answer tonight. Rick is positive Judith is the result of Lori and Shane doing the horizontal post-apocalyptic mambo. Rick knows, but he is raising Judith as his own, that should lead to some interesting situations in the future.

Mostly disagree, because last paragraph. Rick has always cared about and for the people around him. It's a large part of why they follow him. Hell, he's raising a baby that isn't his, and the mother, albeit she was his wife, is dead. He cares.

He's a long game player, too. He plots and watches for the right time. He makes the right time. When they got caught by Terminus, he didn't got balls out from go. He tried, and he got walked into a trap, and then into a box car. He got in the car rather than make a last ditch desperate and futile bid for survival. He learned from that. Rick is taking the time to heal himself while formulating the next steps. "Mercy for the lost, vengeance for the plunderers."

This show doesn't even feel like it's about zombies anymore.

Zomibes aren't really about zombies. Not as an entire ethos. There's a lot to be said for what an individual zombie may represent, but the whole zombie apocalypse is maybe 1/4 about zombies.

I think the problem is that, even if Negan is dead, the Saviors still exist and they still outnumber Alexandria, the Hilltop or the Kingdom by...a significant margin. Plus, pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer, while a lot of the Alexandrians are not. If Rick killed Negan, it would be the end of Alexandria, guaranteed; might save everyone else from misery as the Saviors tore each other apart figuring out who the new leader is, but that's not exactly a sacrifice many are willing to make.

It depends heavily on how it's done. We know not all Saviors want to be Saviors. It's how they play that will swing it, so they need to be played. Get a group like that by themselves and plan with them. Stealthily sow dissention among the ranks. Spring the trap.

Take out Negan fast, sniper style, while he's out with a crew. Maybe snipe a crew member or two. Someone who looks like a die hard. Surround the crew and offer then a deal. Or not. Just kill em all, but probably not. Then, ride up to Saviorville with Negan's head on a stick.

The worst way would be to take out Negan without a control plan in place. If he doesn't have a second in place, and he may be enough sociopath not to, we can best believe a few people have designs on it.

 

[Zuljin]

1. What about Alexandria, the Hilltop, AND the Kingdom? I suspect they may have more in numbers; however, and it's a big however, the saviors have all of Alexandria's guns. That's HUGE!

2. Your blanket statement "pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer" is unfounded. Yes, those we have met have been rather so, but what about those we have not met. Maybe there are more Saviors that are not tried and tested killers than there are, and the groups you have met are only those that go to pillage.

3. If Rick or someone killed Negan it would not have been the end of Alexandria. You should have noted that based on the quantity and quality of their arsenal. They could have killed this smaller group, what 50-60 or so, that came to Alexandria. That's a HUGE dent given who exactly made the trek!

When Negan came to Alexandria was the perfect time to take him out. They funneled themselves right into a funnel. Negan was there in the open. Even if he had his most loyal, and we don't know he did, Rick and crew could have taken enough out for Darryl to escape and most of the townsfolk would have lived, too. But, because for the show.

 

[dmtaylor]

If the Saviors were to get pissed off and kill everyone in Alexandria, well then there disappears a whole lot of people to procure stuff for them. Like your typical pyramid scheme, Negan *needs* Alexandria and *needs* to find more and more and more little towns to feed them and to find them guns and resources. Without exponential growth and cooperation, the whole thing soon fails. This is also why he only kills one person at a time (or okay, maybe two). If he just kills everyone who disagrees with him, then who's gonna find all the free stuff for him? It defeats the whole pyramid scheme. Destroy every little man who crosses you, and then you end up doing everything yourself, which reduces your strength instead of increasing it. Maybe this is what happens later, I don't know, I haven't read the comics. Maybe when resources get tight or too many people get killed off, the whole system implodes when you have a revolt from within the Saviors who finally figure out that Negan is just one person and the pyramid cannot go on forever, because resources and willpower are limited and eventually the empire falls on its own, regardless of what Alexandria provides or does not provide. Perhaps the best strategy is to just wait for the inevitable, just survive for a while, and try not to get any of your own killed while waiting. Negan won't kill you if you're good at what you do. However he's likely to get killed by his own Saviors when he reaches the point where he can no longer deliver on his own promises to them. Just wait for the mutiny, civil war, whatever. Maybe that's the way to go. And maybe, just maybe, Daryl and Dwight will be the ones to fan the early flames of mutiny.

Just thinking out loud again.

 

[m_c_zero]

Maybe this isn't even the first Negan, maybe he's the fifth one already or something, who knows.

I like your thinking here. Maybe the Negan we are seeing isn't the actual leader. Maybe he's just a sergeant and there's some actual general that we haven't seen yet. Works with the whole "we are Negan" ideology.

 

[dmtaylor]

I like your thinking here. Maybe the Negan we are seeing isn't the actual leader. Maybe he's just a sergeant and there's some actual general that we haven't seen yet. Works with the whole "we are Negan" ideology.

I think he's got to be the real Negan though. If he knew it was only a matter of time before he got sniped, he wouldn't dare leave himself so wide-open and vulnerable. This has got to be the one real Negan. His ego is so enormous (it's YUGE), and based on previous experience, no one's bothered to kill him yet, so why should he worry. Why indeed.

This is of course totally unrealistic. No one this smart is simultaneously this stupid, and this is what really bothers me about this story. Narcissist or not, nobody is this dumb........ are they??? It's only a matter of time before he gets popped. But then I hear spoilers from others who've read the comics....... and it just makes me think the whole thing is even dumber yet. I hope we find out sooner than later as this is all going to become tedious if it continues on the current snail's pace.

 

[TwistedGray]

I like your thinking here. Maybe the Negan we are seeing isn't the actual leader. Maybe he's just a sergeant and there's some actual general that we haven't seen yet. Works with the whole "we are Negan" ideology.

I think you guys are stretching a bit here...

 

[hio3791]

When Rick snapped at Spencer, was it him taking his aggression out or did we see a little Negan in Rick?

 

[TwistedGray]

When Rick snapped at Spencer, was it him taking his aggression out or did we see a little Negan in Rick?

Like, still in his throat?

 

[lupulinaddict]

I think he is out in the open because he has to make an impression on new groups. I think for the most part he has been hidden and not out in the open. Last season they ran into at least four negan groups and no Negan. There was the biker group, the sleeping group, the girl group, and the group with Dwight where we just saw feet. if negan was there wouldn't they have sneaked a peak at the bat? Jesus said that he was at hilltop and killed a 16 year old kid to start a relationship of the swing of the bat. Hilltop didn't know he wasn't at that compound, just that the group came from there. Negan is trying to break rick and make his impression on rick and his group. He probably also wants to evaluate ricks homestead firsthand and see how much of a threat he is.

 

[m_c_zero]

It's going to be interesting going forward. I can definitely see Alexandria, the Hilltop and the Kingdom teaming up to form some kind of alliance against the Saviors. Only problem is that Alexandria is now completely out of guns (except for the one that Rosita scavenged) and the Hilltop only seems to have only very primitive weapons (spears and whatnot). The Kingdom seems to have some firepower but not many experienced fighters. If they're going to bring it to the Saviors, they're going to have to come up with some sort of serious plan of attack.

 

[Talgrath]

1. What about Alexandria, the Hilltop, AND the Kingdom? I suspect they may have more in numbers; however, and it's a big however, the saviors have all of Alexandria's guns. That's HUGE!

2. Your blanket statement "pretty much every Savior is a tried and tested killer" is unfounded. Yes, those we have met have been rather so, but what about those we have not met. Maybe there are more Saviors that are not tried and tested killers than there are, and the groups you have met are only those that go to pillage.

3. If Rick or someone killed Negan it would not have been the end of Alexandria. You should have noted that based on the quantity and quality of their arsenal. They could have killed this smaller group, what 50-60 or so, that came to Alexandria. That's a HUGE dent given who exactly made the trek!

Well, I think the show is moving exactly towards the Hilltop, Alexandria and the Kingdom beating the Saviors together. You're right that we don't know, for sure, that every Savior is a killer...but everyone we've met so far seem to have no compunctions about drawing a gun or killing anyone, and most of them seem to enjoy it. I mean, right now Alexandria has maybe 8 true killers left, Rick, Michonne, Carl, Rosita, Aaron and then it gets iffy...you've got maybe Gabriel, Spencer or Eugene. I don't think the rest of the residents of Alexandria are really going to be much use in a stand-up fight. The Saviors seemed to have brought about 30 people, almost as many as the number of people in town; quite frankly, I wouldn't take those odds.

 

[m_c_zero]

Honestly, all our group needs to do is traumatize Morgan and revert him back to his "I clear" mode and then deck him out in body armor and arm him to the teeth like back when he controlled that town by himself and then set him loose on the Saviors. They wouldn't stand a chance...

 

[TwistedGray]

No spoilers, but it will be really interesting to see how they develop the story for television. While they have use lines verbatim out of the comics, all of the character development and story development is not from the comics.

So, while I know what happens in the comics I suspect that won't translate to the show. Although, it will be interesting to see how they play this out given that Alexandria has no firepower.

 

[Patrick87]

704 was painful for me to watch. Between Rick being so broken and then to see the Saviors run off with all their guns, that was tough. It's hard for me to imagine how Alexandria will go to war after losing their arsenal.

 

[GrogNerd]

think there may be some guns buried in Maggie's "grave", may be what Gabriel was signaling to Rick

and it seems Daryl was blinking Morse Code to Rick. there was a sign hanging in Rick's house with the Morse Code alphabet on it

 

[dmtaylor]

Wow. My interest is hereby renewed in full if any of this comes to light. Maybe spoilers aren't so bad after all!? Or maybe "spoilers" is not the correct term, but rather hints, Easter eggs, theories. I like it!

 

[TwistedGray]

think there may be some guns buried in Maggie's "grave", may be what Gabriel was signaling to Rick

and it seems Daryl was blinking Morse Code to Rick. there was a sign hanging in Rick's house with the Morse Code alphabet on it

Very interesting!

 

[Patrick87]

Anyone know what happened to Rick's Colt Python? I never saw anyone take it.

 

[HoppyDaze]

 

[GrogNerd]

Anyone know what happened to Rick's Colt Python? I never saw anyone take it.

Thought the same thing

 

[TwistedGray]

think there may be some guns buried in Maggie's "grave", may be what Gabriel was signaling to Rick

The more I think about it, I think this theory is not that likely.

The reason I think that there are no guns in the grave was because of the issue with the two missing guns. Had they planned this out and hid a fat stash of guns they would have had to make a new registery of guns, AND somehow forget the only two guns that were MIA (both conveniently in dude's house vent stash).

On top of that, I believe that Rick was very much unprepared for a surprise, early visit from Negan.

 

[GrogNerd]

The more I think about it, I think this theory is not that likely.

The reason I think that there are no guns in the grave was because of the issue with the two missing guns. Had they planned this out and hid a fat stash of guns they would have had to make a new registery of guns, AND somehow forget the only two guns that were MIA (both conveniently in dude's house vent stash).

On top of that, I believe that Rick was very much unprepared for a surprise, early visit from Negan.

definitely holes in the theory, as you've stated. good call

also: Rick was freaking out at Gabriel about those 2 pistols while searching Spencer's house for them

so, yeah

but there's something buried there, other than Maggie's body (since she's at Hilltop seeing the doctor), Rick must know Negan will eventually find out she's still alive

well, it must be Chekov's gun.

tv production is expensive; you don't show something unless it means something

 

[Talgrath]

Anyone know what happened to Rick's Colt Python? I never saw anyone take it.

Fat Joey has it.

 

[m_c_zero]

They did get a lot of guns from the Saviors they killed. They were keeping inventory of their own guns but I wonder about the guns that they captured, were those part of the inventory system they had going in Alexandria? I know Negan knew that they had a lot of the Saviors guns but would he know the difference between the guns the Alexandrians already had vs the guns they got from their Savior raids? Though it does sound like the Saviors like to carve symbols into their guns.