The Twin (and Conflicting?) Aims of a Starter

[hiphops]

So, I've done some research (and some experimenting on my own as well) and it seems to me that there are two purposes of a starter. These two purposes appear to be in conflict.

First, the purpose of a starter is just that; to get the yeast "started" before pitching it. Kinda like what the minor leagues are to baseball, a stretch or warm up is to a run and college football is to . . . well you get the point.

Second, the purpose of the starter is to increase the yeast count.

If the purpose of the starter is to get things started and have the yeast hit the wort "running," then it seems to me that the yeast is ready for pitching in about 12-48 hours or so, when the yeast is awake and ready to go. However, if the purpose of the starter is the later (i.e., to increase the yeast count), it seems to me that the yeast isn't ready for pitching until much later than 48 hours. I noticed that the nice band of yeast develops fully after at least 4 days (usually more), when the starter wort has cleared out, leaving a nice band of yeast. However, at this time, it seems to me the starter yeast has become dormant (or is in the process of becoming dormant), which doesn't let the yeast hit the wort running. Hence the conflict between the two purposes of the starter.

To reconcile this, I've been doing both. First, I let the starter do its thing until a nice band develops. Then, I decant the wort, pitch in some new starter wort and give it that 12-48 hours when the yeast is really active, so it can hit the wort "running."

Perhaps I'm overthinking this (after all, its just freakin beer), but is there anything to this?

 

[bja]

Perhaps I'm overthinking this (after all, its just freakin beer), but is there anything to this?

I'm thinking you need to find a second hobby, because even though you're brewing, you still have too much time on your hands.

 

[-TPM-]

Yeast replication mainly happens in the first 24 hours. You're not seeing the band on the bottom just means it's still in suspension.

 

[PoppinCaps]

I do both as well. I'll get the cell count up to what I want, chill, then on brew day decant and add about 100ml of wort at RT to wake them up. They go crazy by the time I'm ready to pitch, and they hit the ground running.

 

[Airborneguy]

Are you an ADA?

 

[beergolf]

http://http://www.mrmalty.com/starter_faq.php


Here is a good read on starters.

 

[BrewKnurd]

A lot of it depends on the volume of the starter for me. If I'm diong a higher gravity beer that requires, say, a 2 liter starter.... that 2 liters would be about 10% of my final wort volume, and that's a bit much for me. So I would make the starter, let it ferment for a day, throw it in the fridge to get the yeast to settle. Day of brewing, 500 mL starter just to wake them back up, into the wort it goes.

 

[TheMan]

You are missing another purpose of the starter. It also helps to eliminate or minimize the first phase of yeasts growth, which is reproduction. This is what causes the lag.

When you make your starter you are just giving them the best opportunity to start up right away. They do not become dormant within 3 days...They just cease to "look" active to you. Just because they aren't krausening when you pitch them does not mean they are not active.

 

[ReverseApacheMaster]

I wonder if there is any difference in the flavor of yeast when you add a starter at high krausen versus letting it settle, particularly in terms of ester production. I know you can pitch less yeast at high krausen and have a quick start to fermentation but I don't know if having a lower yeast volume like that causes more esters or off flavors when the yeast skip the reproduction stage. There's probably some interesting ways to manipulate yeast flavors like that, especially with yeast that throw more flavors, like weizen strains.

Although I have pitched a starter at high krausen it's my preference to let it settle out before pitching. I usually make starter wort from sparging extra wort, rather than using extract, so sometimes I don't want the wort from the starter mixing into the new batch of beer. So for that reason I decant off the liquid and pitch as little starter liquid as possible.

 

[Sir-Brews-Alot]

This may seem like common sense, but to actually see any yeast "growth" with a stepped up starter, you have to essentially double your fermentables. That is to say, you can't just do a 1L starter, ferment for 4 days, decant and then add another 1L of wort and see growth. The second step needs to be 2L or more for the yeast to multiply.

 

[mobilecabinworks]

You are also conditioning the yeast for their future food. By getting them to eat all the maltose, put on their reserves, and then settle out, you are building "muscle" if you will for the "big show". At least thats my understanding of it.

 

[gclunde]

I've been trying something new with my starters...after chilling, siphon off a specified amount, add the yeast, and letting it sit for 24 hours before pitching it into my carboy containing the remaining wort (which I keep chilled in my temp controlled fermentation keezer).

I am curious to see if this will work well and am wondering if this could present any issues.

 

[PoppinCaps]

Shouldn't have any issues, but if you've got some starter wort around, why not do that the day before you brew so it's ready to go when you chill? Might just avoid some danger in letting the brew sit without any yeast for the 24 hours.

 

[bja]

I've been trying something new with my starters...after chilling, siphon off a specified amount, add the yeast, and letting it sit for 24 hours before pitching it into my carboy containing the remaining wort (which I keep chilled in my temp controlled fermentation keezer).

I am curious to see if this will work well and am wondering if this could present any issues.

If you know that your yeast is viable, what's the benefit of doing this rather than just pitching the yeast right away?

 

[Clementine]

I think you only have it 50% right, A starter is not a warm up, its number one purpose is to increase yeast health, the second bit (arguably almost as important) is to increase numbers. While dormant yeast will use (all be it much slower) their energy and nutrient reserves (if you want the technical names read a paper). This thins down their cell walls which makes them weak and therefore they are unable to replicate, withstand high density fluids (ie your 1.090 wort) or high alcoholic environments.

Getting the yeast warmed up is pitching at high krausen, you will notice that some brewers do this others will fridge and decant the spent wort only pitching the slurry, in your analogy running on to the pitch cold. If you pitch at high krausen you may notice slightly shorter lag time as the yeast is in suspension however they are still going to have to multiple to have correct numbers to ferment the wort so there will still be a lag phase.

Just my 2cents worth

Clem