The slow decline of Founders Brewing, is it true or just a myth?

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Is Founders slowly declining as a brewery?

  • Sure is

    Votes: 35 22.9%
  • Maybe, but no real evidence to support that claim

    Votes: 30 19.6%
  • No way

    Votes: 21 13.7%
  • Other breweries are just better now

    Votes: 67 43.8%

  • Total voters
    153
Ballast Point/Stone/Lagunitas/Bear Republic/Alesmith/Firestone/Bell's/Victory/Oskar Blues/Deschutes type.
Excepting Victory and Oskar Blues, all of these Breweries consistently put out better products than Founders. And I wish Founders could do what Firestone does - great year round lineup with a fantastic, mass-produced set of great barrel-aged stuff.
 
A fair number of mediocre brewers around the US are busy ALL the time as well.
There is a picture of Shipyard next to the definition of mediocre...yet Its at every freaking Wegmans. The bottle shops don't sell it so who the hell is buying it? I'm planning on spending an entire afternoon at the Wegmans beer aisle waiting to see the person who actually purchases applehead. Then I will start chucking apples at them like the Redd's commercials
 
Excepting Victory and Oskar Blues, all of these Breweries consistently put out better products than Founders. And I wish Founders could do what Firestone does - great year round lineup with a fantastic, mass-produced set of great barrel-aged stuff.
Fair enough. Founders' year round lineup is already great, just up the BA stuff.
 
I was disappointed in my trip to Founders this summer.

The selection & service were lacking. Totally not a destination brewery. Should have spent more time at Vivant or Bell's. You know, while I'm here, I didn't see what the big deal about Hopcat was either. But the service their was cool, even if the selection let me down a little.
 
I was disappointed in my trip to Founders this summer.

The selection & service were lacking. Totally not a destination brewery. Should have spent more time at Vivant or Bell's. You know, while I'm here, I didn't see what the big deal about Hopcat was either. But the service their was cool, even if the selection let me down a little.
Vivant ambiance and duck nachos FTW.
 
I wasn't impressed with this year's KBS, and I didn't really like FIS fresh out of the gate as much as some previous years. But the FIS at least has rounded into form nicely since, although I'd pretty much always go with Expedition if given the choice. Haven't had FBS in a while, need to try it when I see it again. Founders' hoppy lineup falls under "solid" for me. I tend to enjoy them but almost never seek them out, and they are often pretty old when they show up here.

The Backstage series I honestly haven't hated as much as many (I even thought Frangelic was decent) but they really haven't been worth the price over the past few years especially given the styles. Cheapest I've seen for Dissenter is 11.99 which is ridiculous for an IPL bomber. Pretty much no interest in this new one at its price point.
 
On a similar note I have 2 bottles of FMB available for..........













Nothing. Srs.
 
It's funny you talk about Founders and being a homer, because people are starting to talk all this **** about Surly, and as a homer, the beer is still good, they put on great events, they help the community, and they do a pretty good job with distro and meeting demand. Hell, even the taproom has one offs and new beers all the time. But according to some people online, they "suck" because Pentagram is just OK and not worth trading for. What more do you people want?

Really, Surly? The first Surly beer i had was this year's Abrasive, and it was ****ing stellar. Top 5 DIPAs I've had without a doubt.

I have not been HUGELY impressed with Founders beers... except for FBS and FIS which I thought were amazing. KBS was pretty damn good but maybe the hype ruined it for me. And the fact that I brought it to SARA and everyone was talking **** on it. Whatever. Haters gonna hate. FBS is amazing.

You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!
 
Vivant ambiance and duck nachos FTW.

The duck nachos were great but the beers they had on tap were almost all beers I could find at Binnys, and no BA stuff which I was not expecting from them. My visit there was actually more disappointing then Founders. Although there was a bad ass Frank Lloyd Wright house a couple blocks south of there

Perrin tho, 23 of their own beers on tap. Would go back there in a heartbeat
HopCat is always a good time too
 
Really, Surly? The first Surly beer i had was this year's Abrasive, and it was ****ing stellar. Top 5 DIPAs I've had without a doubt.

I have not been HUGELY impressed with Founders beers... except for FBS and FIS which I thought were amazing. KBS was pretty damn good but maybe the hype ruined it for me. And the fact that I brought it to SARA and everyone was talking **** on it. Whatever. Haters gonna hate. FBS is amazing.

You can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning!
People still talk ****
 
The duck nachos were great but the beers they had on tap were almost all beers I could find at Binnys, and no BA stuff which I was not expecting from them. My visit there was actually more disappointing then Founders. Although there was a bad ass Frank Lloyd Wright house a couple blocks south of there

Perrin tho, 23 of their own beers on tap. Would go back there in a heartbeat
HopCat is always a good time too
Bummer. That seems to be the case for me 50% of time when hitting breweries. All staples on tap.
I;ve been to Vivant a few times, and each time there was at least a couple unique offerings.
 
I thought the Founders booth at Hunahpu Day was kind of funny. They were releasing the Backstage beers on the hour and had the whole schedule written up (as if anyone cared), and then for KBS it said "listen for the horn". First of all, there's no way anyone would have heard a ****ing horn over the din of the crowd. And second of all, I bet pretty much no one at Huna Day gave a **** about ticking KBS. I can just see it "Hmm, I'm in this line for Double-Barrel Hunahpu...but oh **** the KBS horn went off see ya later!"
 
So, how does this happen?
I walked into a big liquor store in Northern Kentucky a while ago and find this...

Now keep in mind these were bottled on 7/29/14 or 8/1/14 the date I was there was 9/5/14.
So, all my stores in Lexington have these turding up the shelves at $11.99 - $12.99 with bottle dates ~6/17/14
WTF?
*edit, I bought a case and split it with friends
 
For whatever it's worth, I think their core offerings/seasonals are as strong across the board as any brewery in the US.

FIS
FBS
Dirty Bastard
All Day
Double Trouble
Porter
Backwoods
Harvest ale

I will say, Centennial and Pale are less than amazing, but comparatively to craft breweries of a similar size I think they do their 'basic' beers as well or better as anyone and some better than anyone expect maybe a few small producers like HF. Their Porter remains a gold standard for american porter in my opinion.

While we in the small niche of craft beer lunatics may have passed KBS by, the vast majority of the moderately interested public still goes bananas for the beer.

I guess I'm just trying to say I tihnk it's unfair to suggest the brewery is in decline when the core offerings and seasonals remain at a high quality while expanding production significantly, even if it's 'arguably' at the cost of a perceived decline in quality of specialty products.
 
So, how does this happen?
I walked into a big liquor store in Northern Kentucky a while ago and find this...

Now keep in mind these were bottled on 7/29/14 or 8/1/14 the date I was there was 9/5/14.
So, all my stores in Lexington have these turding up the shelves at $11.99 - $12.99 with bottle dates ~6/17/14
WTF?
*edit, I bought a case and split it with friends
Pulled a Kuhnhenn and forgot a pallet in the back.
 
I thought the Founders booth at Hunahpu Day was kind of funny. They were releasing the Backstage beers on the hour and had the whole schedule written up (as if anyone cared), and then for KBS it said "listen for the horn". First of all, there's no way anyone would have heard a ****ing horn over the din of the crowd. And second of all, I bet pretty much no one at Huna Day gave a **** about ticking KBS. I can just see it "Hmm, I'm in this line for Double-Barrel Hunahpu...but oh **** the KBS horn went off see ya later!"


Their beerfest reps are like over the carnival game attendants. I walked past their booth this year @ MBGSBF to grab a MangoMag(I know, weird but I loved this beer), they tell me it's a Saturday only release(it was friday obv). The lady then proceeds to try and hype the **** out of Smoked Porter and telling me im insane if I don't get one. I passed, went to Livery's booth and sure enough who walks from behind their booth to triple fist Funkalicious? Crazy Founders lady.

I do love Founders and my only gripe with them is their lack of a taplist at times, but I live 45 minutes away and can just poach when the gettin's good.
 
Bummer. That seems to be the case for me 50% of time when hitting breweries. All staples on tap.
I;ve been to Vivant a few times, and each time there was at least a couple unique offerings.

There's nothing worse than visiting a brewery where the draft options are the same as the bottle options at the 7/11 down the street from your house. Great Divide is an offender as well.
 
Call me a homer, but my short answer is, "myth". Allow me to state my opinions...

I don't think their quality has diminished, per se. I do believe that certain beers did drop off when they moved to their larger system, 2013 KBS being one of them. There was also a weird batch of Breakfast Stout that hit the taproom after expansion. But in my opinion, each of those beers were fixed the next year. Maybe its a perception thing, since I don't really drink any of the mainstream Founders beer from bottles. I love the **** out of All Day from the can, but I don't buy much else. So my experience with distributed beer, as seen from many outside of West Michigan, is very different. As always, YMMV.

As for pricing, even I can agree that $17 is out of line for Big Lushious, when compared to other Backstage releases. My first thought was similar to others, FBS + Rubaeus blend. Which it isn't, as they had this beer on tap for a few days in July. It's on Untappd as Raspberry Chocolate Stout. I didn't personally have it, but I know others who did and it was a lot sweeter than what you would get when mixing FBS and Rubaeus. It was received well when on tap. Should Founders make CBS again, I say no. The train has left the station, it'll never be the same. I think there are so many other breweries that do big imperial stouts, that it would be such a let down for so many. It was great when it came out, because it was one of the first.

As for the weak taplist over the last month or so, the only thing I have heard, is that Founders went through a lot more beer than they expected over the last few months. ArtPrize, a 2.5 week long city-wide art contest, starts up this coming Wednesday and all of downtown GR is a ******** for the entire duration. Last year, almost 250,000 people visited GR in that 2.5 weeks. Founders is a title sponsor (see Mosaic Promise) and is a venue for many pieces of art in the contest. They are holding back beer so that they don't run out during ArtPrize. Is it a valid reason, I think so. Is it going to get better, not sure. Founders is looking to expand further with an offsite brewing location, with aspirations to get to 600,000 barrels of production.

When compared to other breweries in the beer nerd-dom spotlight right now, they can't compete. They don't make the same styles that seem to draw all of the attention. They don't do big juicy IPAs like HF or TG. They don't make wild ales, berliners and saisons like De Garde, Side Project, Tired Hands or (again) HF. So, have they kept up with the competition, with respect to the "hot style of the moment"? No. But, have they declined in what they do, and their own portfolio? No. I believe they have reached "old has been" status among this crazed beer culture. Do they care, not likely.

They have these three words on their logo, "Brewed for us", and I do believe they really brew by those words. Part of me thinks that out of stubbornness, they won't ever distribute CBS or Black Biscuit or whatever this small beer-crazed community wants, because then they'll be brewing for "you", not "us". They have new-to-craft people walking into the taproom every day. They are expanding distribution to new states every year. There taproom is busy, all the damn time. There's a lineup around the building every Dec 1st when open mug club memberships go on sale. They're doing it right in my opinion.

That wasn't a short answer.
 
Yeah, they're becoming (if they aren't there already) a Ballast Point/Stone/Lagunitas/Bear Republic/Alesmith/Firestone/Bell's/Victory/Oskar Blues/Deschutes type operation.

i wish founders was becoming a firestone type operation. name a brewery that has a more consistently amazing barrel aging program that can put out the kind of scale that firestone does, all while producing several consistent top tier offerings (velvet merlin, pivo pils, wookey jack, others) as part of their core lineup.

i've only been to founders once, and it was a good experience. however, i have not at all been impressed with them in the recent innovation department. all of the backstage beers i've had since and including frangelic have ranged from 'meh' (bolt cutter, doom) to 'nigh undrinkable' (frangelic, sweet repute, mango magnifico). i hate smoked beers so i didn't get smoked porter.

the last 'new' thing i've had from founders that i actually enjoyed was the black ipa that they distroed to michigan last year, and i'm not typically a person that likes that style.

founders still has a lot to be proud of from their regular lineup, but it almost seems like their attempts at real innovation are failing while their less innovative new releases (mosaic promise, inspired artist) are just playing catchup to other, more regularly innovative breweries who have more skill to pull it off.
 
There's nothing worse than visiting a brewery where the draft options are the same as the bottle options at the 7/11 down the street from your house. Great Divide is an offender as well.

I never bother to recommend Great Divide because why bother?
Nothing to see here folks...
 
I never bother to recommend Great Divide because why bother?
Nothing to see here folks...

Nice av. Going to see them on the IARB 10th Anniversary tour?


edit: to keep this on topic. Porter, FIS, and Harvest Ale are all delicious. The rest...ehhhhhh. I did enjoy Mosaic Promise though
 
I was disappointed in my trip to Founders this summer.

The selection & service were lacking. Totally not a destination brewery. Should have spent more time at Vivant or Bell's. You know, while I'm here, I didn't see what the big deal about Hopcat was either. But the service their was cool, even if the selection let me down a little.


Exact same experience (both Founder's and Hop cat), though I did not make it to Vivant (I will be going there this November though). I used to enjoy Founder's when I lived in MI 7 years ago and for a couple years afterwards when visiting. But I have felt it has gotten stale in there, tap-wise and atmosphere.
 
I was up there last July and enjoyed it. A sudden appearance of Backwoods on tap was awesome. And holy **** that bruschetta.

When they put Backwoods on, the wife immediately found a mani/pedi place and left me to it....she knew I wasn't going anywhere for awhile.

As echoed above, I don't find the backstage series very exciting anymore. I don't get KBS anymore because I hate chasing single bottles around town....eff that. But I still really enjoy their regular lineup.

Edit: here's what they had when I was there. Interesting lineup. Hadn't ever heard of these (other than Backwoods of course)

rn7HOyg.jpg
 
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As echoed above, I don't find the backstage series very exciting anymore. I don't get KBS anymore because I hate chasing single bottles around town....eff that. But I still really enjoy their regular lineup.
Seriously... I gave up this year when places started doing lottos for 1 single bottle of KBS. Are you ****ing kidding me?
 
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