American IPA The New West Coast IPA

[DrGMG]

1.080 OG and "super crushable". A man after my heart! What was your final gravity?

1020

 

[DrGMG]

Looks great. Nice beer vase
Use any finings &/or has it cleared since being kegged?
Mine a few posts above is totally clear now. First time using biofine vs gelatin. Think I liked the slightly hazy version better. Wish I would’ve just waited to see if it cleared without help. I also like you IBUs & think I’ll aim higher next time.

I'm too scared to use any of that on an IPA.

 

[Langerz]

I brewed this a bit ago. Really needs another week of conditioning before it's ready but I got impatient and chilled one bottle yesterday to give it a try. It's a little green but I really liked it, but it was different than I expected. It was a lot more NEIPA flavor wise than WC. Mouthfeel/body was what I expected, but I thought I'd get a bit more bitterness in the flavor. I got mostly a lot of citra (not really a complaint - I love citra). For the people in the midwest the early sample reminded me a lot of Easy Eddy from Big Grove.

I followed to original recipe pretty much exactly. OG was 1.061 and FG has 1.006. I'll wait another week to try another one, but curious on thoughts from the thread.

 

[beervoid]

I brewed this a bit ago. Really needs another week of conditioning before it's ready but I got impatient and chilled one bottle yesterday to give it a try. It's a little green but I really liked it, but it was different than I expected. It was a lot more NEIPA flavor wise than WC. Mouthfeel/body was what I expected, but I thought I'd get a bit more bitterness in the flavor. I got mostly a lot of citra (not really a complaint - I love citra). For the people in the midwest the early sample reminded me a lot of Easy Eddy from Big Grove.

I followed to original recipe pretty much exactly. OG was 1.061 and FG has 1.006. I'll wait another week to try another one, but curious on thoughts from the thread.

How is the haze?
I think the character you are looking for will develop as the beer clears

 

[DrGMG]

I brewed this a bit ago. Really needs another week of conditioning before it's ready but I got impatient and chilled one bottle yesterday to give it a try. It's a little green but I really liked it, but it was different than I expected. It was a lot more NEIPA flavor wise than WC. Mouthfeel/body was what I expected, but I thought I'd get a bit more bitterness in the flavor. I got mostly a lot of citra (not really a complaint - I love citra). For the people in the midwest the early sample reminded me a lot of Easy Eddy from Big Grove.

I followed to original recipe pretty much exactly. OG was 1.061 and FG has 1.006. I'll wait another week to try another one, but curious on thoughts from the thread.

Remember, the beer is supposed to be somewhat juicy, but bitter as well.

 

[Langerz]

How is the haze?
I think the character you are looking for will develop as the beer clears

It was still very hazy. I’m a tad nervous it won’t clear well. Had a couple issues during the brew. I’ll try again in a week

 

[Broothru]

Been lurking on this thread for a while and been excited to finally brew something like this. So with the Modern style west coast style being in general more "quaffable", the IBUs aren't as aggressive as the previous historical WCIPAs such as Stone's Ruination or Olde Hickory's "Death by Hops", I actually decided to do something more in-line of russian river's modern approach to IPAs. Post #34 where the CBC interviewed vinny was a treasure for me. So I've elected to brew a beer without any "cara" malts, but gave it more of a malt backbone than @ihavenonickname original recipe but I upped the IBUs compared to the OPs post. So this is CBCs inspired grain bill and since I still love russian rivers IPAs I used a hop profile that combined the likelness of pliney the elder and blind pig I think.

Stats:

OG - 1.064, FG - 1.011 = ~7.0%abv
Yeast: WLP001
Grain Bill: ~77% Epiphany 2 row foundation malt, 14% Pale Ale malt (briess), 4.3% Munich Type II, 4.3% Chit Malt
Calculated SRM = 5.8 - Epiphany's 2 row malt is darker than norm but extremely flavorful compared to standard 2-row like Rahr.
Hops: Boil - Columbus, LUPOMAX cascade, and simcoe; WP - Amarillo, LUPOMAX Cascade, and Simcoe; DH - Simcoe, Citra, Columbus, Amarillo
Calculated IBUs = 78.

I am digging this beer! With the relatively more malty grain bill compared to the OP - it easily supports the higher IBUs without being sweet. Friends who have decent palates all thought this beer had an IBU in the 40-50 range.

So while my attempt at this style strays from the OPs, I think we are actually on the same page about the end-game perception on how drinkable these beers are. No crystal needed and if you want to have a maltier grain bill, feel free to up the IBUs - you wont be dissapointed. This was also the first time using chit malt and I'll say that it DOES help with foam formation, BUT I think my retention could be a bit better. Got this beer in a couple of comps so we will see how it shakes out.

Pictures: no sun so lighting isn't great but this beer looks more golden yellow than the pics show. But given it was 80 degrees today and flowers are blooming, I will take this opportunity to stick it to the northerners and say "glad I aint up there anymore!" lol


View attachment 815981View attachment 815982

Wow! Great looking beer. I've been a big fan of Pliny the Elder ever since the first sip over a decade ago. It's been 5 years since we last made it out west in Ralph the Prairie Schooner (our motorhome) and visited Russian River in Santa Rosa. Had to bring back a 12 bottle case. Keeping it properly chilled as we criss-crossed our way home to the East Coast was an ongoing battle with SWMBO'd who kept attempting to reclaim lost refrigerator space. I finally prevailed, having shamed her by comparing my one 'small' box of beer to the several cases of wine she'd collected in Santa Barbera, SLO, the Mid Coast, Napa/Sonoma, Oregon and Washington. Even leveraged it into a side trip to Yakima to stock up on hops, though granting me freezer space to store them properly was a bridge too far.

We had hoped to redux the journey west this Spring, but the onslaught of recent weather in Cali has put all that on hold for now. So your update recipe of a Pliny-like beer couldn't have come at a better time. I haven't seen the CBC broadcast with Vinnie but it sounds quite intriguing. Did he get very deep into the How/What/Why of the 'new' WCIPA style and how it resulted in a reformulation of the RR taplist? Finding RR beers on the East Coast is harder than trying to find Coors east of the Kansas-Missouri border in the 60s. I have heard of a bar outside of Philly that gets a limited supply of "Elder" and "Younger" when available, but it disappears quickly.

Is your recipe based on insights Vinnie revealed in the interview, or more like a personal adaptation of what you took away? I recall his 'home brewer-friendly' recipe for Pliny from a decade ago had Cascade whole hops, and of course was pre-Lupomax, but did include hop shots. Also curious what chit malt brings to the table. And the elimination of crystal malts but the addition of Munich is in keeping with the nouveaux style of WCIPAs. Looking forward to trying your recipe.

 

[hopfenstopfen]

Wow! Great looking beer. I've been a big fan of Pliny the Elder ever since the first sip over a decade ago. It's been 5 years since we last made it out west in Ralph the Prairie Schooner (our motorhome) and visited Russian River in Santa Rosa. Had to bring back a 12 bottle case. Keeping it properly chilled as we criss-crossed our way home to the East Coast was an ongoing battle with SWMBO'd who kept attempting to reclaim lost refrigerator space. I finally prevailed, having shamed her by comparing my one 'small' box of beer to the several cases of wine she'd collected in Santa Barbera, SLO, the Mid Coast, Napa/Sonoma, Oregon and Washington. Even leveraged it into a side trip to Yakima to stock up on hops, though granting me freezer space to store them properly was a bridge too far.

We had hoped to redux the journey west this Spring, but the onslaught of recent weather in Cali has put all that on hold for now. So your update recipe of a Pliny-like beer couldn't have come at a better time. I haven't seen the CBC broadcast with Vinnie but it sounds quite intriguing. Did he get very deep into the How/What/Why of the 'new' WCIPA style and how it resulted in a reformulation of the RR taplist? Finding RR beers on the East Coast is harder than trying to find Coors east of the Kansas-Missouri border in the 60s. I have heard of a bar outside of Philly that gets a limited supply of "Elder" and "Younger" when available, but it disappears quickly.

Is your recipe based on insights Vinnie revealed in the interview, or more like a personal adaptation of what you took away? I recall his 'home brewer-friendly' recipe for Pliny from a decade ago had Cascade whole hops, and of course was pre-Lupomax, but did include hop shots. Also curious what chit malt brings to the table. And the elimination of crystal malts but the addition of Munich is in keeping with the nouveaux style of WCIPAs. Looking forward to trying your recipe.

I’ll stay out of noob’s way on responding to your question re: the youtube video with Vinnie. But I also brewed a version of this recipe last year & someone started a thread on it. The thread died quickly! But, there’s a recipe & a little beer porn.

Thread 'West Coast IPA (loosely based on Russian River Blind Pig)'
American IPA - West Coast IPA (loosely based on Russian River Blind Pig)

 

[Broothru]

. Good link. Gracias!

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Is your recipe based on insights Vinnie revealed in the interview, or more like a personal adaptation of what you took away? I recall his 'home brewer-friendly' recipe for Pliny from a decade ago had Cascade whole hops, and of course was pre-Lupomax, but did include hop shots. Also curious what chit malt brings to the table. And the elimination of crystal malts but the addition of Munich is in keeping with the nouveaux style of WCIPAs. Looking forward to trying your recipe.

Thanks for the response @Brooothru . With the exception of the chit malt addition, my recipe is based on Vinnie's chat with the CBC guy AND what CBC guy came up with with his recipe. If you go to the CBC channel on utube, he actually brewed the beer twice with modifications after the first. What was most intriguing about listening to Vinnie was he mentioned using some pale ale malt and munich to give the beer some backbone. This is why the CBC guy went with those three malts essentially. Vinnie also talked about a reason why Pliney has evolved and in his words "stay relevant" was that he ditched crystal malts all together due to their increased potential for oxidation. No clue if there is science behind that statement but since he's interested more in shelf life of his beers more than me, I can see why he did it. Also, I'll have to look for it but I think someone on this thread linked a podcast with two "newer" breweries discussing the modern WCIPA and they also included Vinnie as well. In that podcast, rather than talk about 2-row, pale ale malt, and munich, he simply mentioned using a "Rahr blend" of malts. So following the old pliney recipes posted everywhere including on AHA which used to include crystal to listening to him now with the CBC collaboration, I really appreciate his willingness to morph probably one of the most longstanding and iconic IPAs out there. That CBC interview is great. He also talked about water chemistry: even though he emphasizes a nice Gypsum charge, he still doesn't ignore the Cl additions to help with the malty backbone.

Truthfully, I've had Pliney ONCE and that was about 2 years ago so its more of the present-day pliney. But I distinctly remember: 1) this isn't a palate wrecker like the "old school WCIPAs" were, 2) I loved the balance between hops and malt as they were masterfully balanced IMO, 3) I was actually expecting more of a hop presence akin to the present day NEIPAs, and 4) you got pleasant bitterness throughout the palate kinda like waves but it wasn't over the top in any way.

So in the end, I do think that the present day Pliney is more in line with @ihavenonickname recipe than most think. Drinkability is great, bitterness present but not palate wrecking which renders the beer pretty crushable (which is saying a lot considering Pliney is a double IPA), clear beer, great hop flavor, low/no sweetness due to no crystal. Even though my beer I posted has a bigger malt presence than the OPs recipe, I upped the IBUs to help keep the balance. So I truly believe that there are multiple avenues to the "modern WCIPA" that people are looking for today. @ihavenonickname has a great recipe that I will no doubt try, but I also think the strategy I posted will get you in this ball park as well. Perhaps this thread will morph into the next NEIPA thread thats 300+pages long where people post their "modern wcipas" here. I kinda hope so.

P.s. I really don't have a good answer to what CHit malt added. It seemed to be a rave malt a little while ago, but didn't seem to gain traction IMO. Truthfully though, I was 90 minutes away from my house and decided to stop into my nearest HB store and saw that they had it and I never tried it lol. I thought that since this beer didn't have any adjuncts, this highly undermodified (from my understanding) malt should help with foam formation and retention. Foam formation is great but retention could've been better. I also didn't step mash my beer I posted which in my experience also helps with foam formation AND retention. I will likely try this again and raise the chit malt addition from ~4 to ~6% and step mash to see better what it gives.

Ok, rant over lol.

Cheers!

 

[Broothru]

Thanks for the response @Brooothru . With the exception of the chit malt addition, my recipe is based on Vinnie's chat with the CBC guy AND what CBC guy came up with with his recipe. If you go to the CBC channel on utube, he actually brewed the beer twice with modifications after the first. What was most intriguing about listening to Vinnie was he mentioned using some pale ale malt and munich to give the beer some backbone. This is why the CBC guy went with those three malts essentially. Vinnie also talked about a reason why Pliney has evolved and in his words "stay relevant" was that he ditched crystal malts all together due to their increased potential for oxidation. No clue if there is science behind that statement but since he's interested more in shelf life of his beers more than me, I can see why he did it. Also, I'll have to look for it but I think someone on this thread linked a podcast with two "newer" breweries discussing the modern WCIPA and they also included Vinnie as well. In that podcast, rather than talk about 2-row, pale ale malt, and munich, he simply mentioned using a "Rahr blend" of malts. So following the old pliney recipes posted everywhere including on AHA which used to include crystal to listening to him now with the CBC collaboration, I really appreciate his willingness to morph probably one of the most longstanding and iconic IPAs out there. That CBC interview is great. He also talked about water chemistry: even though he emphasizes a nice Gypsum charge, he still doesn't ignore the Cl additions to help with the malty backbone.

Truthfully, I've had Pliney ONCE and that was about 2 years ago so its more of the present-day pliney. But I distinctly remember: 1) this isn't a palate wrecker like the "old school WCIPAs" were, 2) I loved the balance between hops and malt as they were masterfully balanced IMO, 3) I was actually expecting more of a hop presence akin to the present day NEIPAs, and 4) you got pleasant bitterness throughout the palate kinda like waves but it wasn't over the top in any way.

So in the end, I do think that the present day Pliney is more in line with @ihavenonickname recipe than most think. Drinkability is great, bitterness present but not palate wrecking which renders the beer pretty crushable (which is saying a lot considering Pliney is a double IPA), clear beer, great hop flavor, low/no sweetness due to no crystal. Even though my beer I posted has a bigger malt presence than the OPs recipe, I upped the IBUs to help keep the balance. So I truly believe that there are multiple avenues to the "modern WCIPA" that people are looking for today. @ihavenonickname has a great recipe that I will no doubt try, but I also think the strategy I posted will get you in this ball park as well. Perhaps this thread will morph into the next NEIPA thread thats 300+pages long where people post their "modern wcipas" here. I kinda hope so.

P.s. I really don't have a good answer to what CHit malt added. It seemed to be a rave malt a little while ago, but didn't seem to gain traction IMO. Truthfully though, I was 90 minutes away from my house and decided to stop into my nearest HB store and saw that they had it and I never tried it lol. I thought that since this beer didn't have any adjuncts, this highly undermodified (from my understanding) malt should help with foam formation and retention. Foam formation is great but retention could've been better. I also didn't step mash my beer I posted which in my experience also helps with foam formation AND retention. I will likely try this again and raise the chit malt addition from ~4 to ~6% and step mash to see better what it gives.

Ok, rant over lol.

Cheers!

Super, comprehensive reply @Noob_Brewer! Thanks for the tips. Watching the CBC interview is top priority (after finishing up tax filing chores). April is gonna' be a busy month. Top of the 'To Brew' list is a Kolsch, now followed by a "new and improved WCIPA" style ale. Then comes a first attempt at a seltzer for my son-in-law's new kegerator (not my fav, but it's popular with the younger set for summer pool parties), then focus shifts for my lagers so they'll have time to actually 'lager' for a month or more before the competition season starts.

Man, this retirement thingy sure is keeping me busy. Maybe I should go back to work so I can get some rest.

 

[Noob_Brewer]

Man, this retirement thingy sure is keeping me busy. Maybe I should go back to work so I can get some rest.

In my HB club there are several retired folks who love to brew and do things and they stay super busy as well. But not gonna lie, I wish I was there now myself lol. Especially when I'm at work at ~1pm and they are texting a group chat about what they are drinking to celebrate a successful brew day mid-week. I have to silence the chat and super jealous lol.

 

[Langerz]

Gave it another try tonight and it’s getting good. The bitterness is definitely there now but still lots of citra hops. Still not as clear as the others in the thread but there’s a couple things there I already know to work on next time. Flavor is really good though. There a bit of a harsh edge but I think that will mellow out a bit with a bit more time. Pretty happy with this for my 3rd brew.

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I know many of y'all but glad I stumbled across this thread. We talked hop creep before it was a thing many moons ago. It only appeared when switching from bottles to kegging. Anyway I've looked into ALDC as suggested. Reviews look promising and ordered some. I've also ordered this from the UK to eliminate dry hopping all together. Cautiously optimistic for brewing my long time nemesis, IPAs, again.

Maybe it's time to dust of my old PtE recipe from years back.

 

[Ulisses4677]

My latest creation
6.3 % abv
60 ibu
100% gambrinus
100% mosaic in cryo incognito and spectrum
It smells awesome and taste amazing.

 

[Dgallo]

View attachment 817765
My latest creation
6.3 % abv
60 ibu
100% gambrinus
100% mosaic in cryo incognito and spectrum
It smells awesome and taste amazing.

Nice Mags glass. I live only 10 mins from fiden’s

 

[Ulisses4677]

Nice Mags glass. I live only 10 mins from fiden’s

I have been planning on making a trip to fidens. I live in Las Vegas and they make amazing ipas. Hopefully this summer I get the time to make a trip.

 

[Langerz]

View attachment 817765
My latest creation
6.3 % abv
60 ibu
100% gambrinus
100% mosaic in cryo incognito and spectrum
It smells awesome and taste amazing.

I don’t think using your beer as a flower vase is going to help the flavor but if it does let me know and I’ll try it

“definite floral tones”

 

[Ulisses4677]

I don’t think using your beer as a flower vase is going to help the flavor but if it does let me know and I’ll try it

“definite floral tones”

Lol definitely no floral flavors in this beer. More of a berry and citrus flavor profile.

 

[Dgallo]

I have been planning on making a trip to fidens. I live in Las Vegas and they make amazing ipas. Hopefully this summer I get the time to make a trip.

Just was talking to Greg last night actually and they are on track to open their taproom/restaurant by July. So plan for after that. Oh and let me know if you do. We can meet up and I’ll have some Homebrew for you to try

 

[Ulisses4677]

Just was talking to Greg last night actually and they are on track to open their taproom/restaurant by July. So plan for after that. Oh and let me know if you do. We can meet up and I’ll have some Homebrew for you to try

Sound like a plan. I’m planning on heading out there in late august or early September.

 

[Dgallo]

Getting to the end of the keg of my hb’d modern west coast ipa. I’d keep the water and grainbill the same and greatly reduce the talus. It’s a unique hop but the woodsie finish of the beer makes me want to soften it

 

[Ulisses4677]

Getting to the end of the keg of my hb’d modern west coast ipa. I’d keep the water and grainbill the same and greatly reduce the talus. It’s a unique hop but the woods finish of the beer makes me want to soften it

 

[Ulisses4677]

What’s your bittering hop of choice or do you adjust according to the hops your going to use?

 

[Dgallo]

What’s your bittering hop of choice or do you adjust according to the hops your going to use?

Bitter hop for hoppy ales is Columbus usually and semi to hoppy lager or non hop forward beer I use magnum

 

[Ulisses4677]

Bitter hop for hoppy ales is Columbus usually and semi to hoppy lager or non hop forward beer I use magnum

I’m on the same boat

 

[DrGMG]

Yup, Talus is a weird one. I will be sending my new American IPA to @fourfarthing , will be great to get some feedback. Here in FL, my club friends have liked it so far.

 

[anteater8]

My beer does not perfectly fit on this thread, but I've definitely been flirting with the New West Coast IPA unintentionally for years and would love to share it here.

13 lb 2 row
3 lb Vienna
0.5 lb C40
0.5 lb Sugar

0.5 oz Warrior 60 min (20 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 30 min (26 IBU)
1 oz Citra 10 min (11 IBU)
1 oz Simcoe 5 min (7 IBU)
1 oz Citra 0 min
2 oz Centennial 0 min
2 oz Centennial Lupomax Whirlpool (170 for 20 min)
2 oz Citra Whirlpool (170 for 20 min)
2 oz Citra dry hop
4 oz Simcoe dry hop

Imperial Flagship

150:50 sulfate:chloride

Mash at 156, mash pH = 5.3

O.G. = 1.066
F.G. = 1.007
ABV = 7.7%
IBU = 64

Clear golden/amber in color with a thin white head. Aroma of mango, pine, grapefruit, orange and lemon zest, faint biscuit. Flavor is more pine and grapefruit dominant, with hints of mango, and faint caramel. Body is medium, finish is very crisp and balance ends slightly bitter.

Overall I love this beer, probably one of my best west coast IPA’s. I would order a few pints of this at a bar. I think the alcohol should be a little lower (my attenuation often surprises me). My main complaint is also a slightly 'sharp' taste on the finish that is common across a lot of my west coast IPA's that is kind of like lemon pith. When I compare it to my favorite commercial versions, they are a little rounder/smoother with flavor saturated instead of having that sharp quality... hard to describe. I'm not sure what's causing it or how to improve it.

As far as the style goes, I love the less bitter, lighter in color, and combination of classic citrus/pine with more modern tropical fruit. I've been reluctant to let go of the 2 row and crystal though.

 

[RCope]

@anteater8 The beer looks fantastic and with those hops, I’m sure it’s delicious. I’m surprised to see that your calculated IBUs don’t take into account the flameout and 170 degree WP additions. Brewers Friend would add a significant number of IBUs with that schedule. Just curious…

 

[anteater8]

@anteater8 The beer looks fantastic and with those hops, I’m sure it’s delicious. I’m surprised to see that your calculated IBUs don’t take into account the flameout and 170 degree WP additions. Brewers Friend would add a significant number of IBUs with that schedule. Just curious…

You're right, I don't account for whirlpool IBUs. I've read so many different ways of configuring Beersmith settings to get accurate whirlpool IBUs, I just go off of "boil IBUs" alone for my recipes. My IPAs, west coast or hazy, pretty much all have 4-6 oz whirlpool hops, so that contribution is close to constant. I know its not scientific, but I guess it works for me after brewing a ton of IPAs. As far as this recipe goes, I wouldn't it any less bitter, or I think it would lose its crisp quality and risk finishing sweet.

I am curious to hear about how others calculate whirlpool IBUs though, maybe its something I should start taking more seriously.