The king is dead, long live the king! Congrats to Bell's Two Hearted

[triethylborane]

I really enjoyed two hearted, its rare here, and I heard its in grocery stores out east.

Ive never seen any Bells beer here, period. Its always brought by a relative from MI, where you can buy full strength beer in grocery stores (and a corporation can hold more than one liquor license). You can get Bells from KS now, but NM will be on distribution in the fall.

 

[isomerization]

Right, the takeaway from my comment is that anyone who disagrees with me is wrong.

Then what was the takeaway from your 1st comment? No one was (or is) having a meltdown of any sort, so I guess I don't see why you had to bring in the negativity.

One thing that is clear, the large majority of people posting in this thread believe the poll to either be flawed in its execution (e.g. should be most popular not best beers) or just simply disagree with the results.

 

[ProblemChild]

No different than so many other polls.

Does the US Presidential election always result in the best President possible? No, it just results in the candidate that went the distance against others who had the temerity, money, organizational support, etc. to run, and to gain the required Electoral College votes.

Not sure that argument applies - we are not saying "Best" in an election - just the one that won the most electoral votes.

Not sure how this argument applies to declaring some the best as opposed to most popular or the winner.

 

[skidmark]

Not sure that argument applies - we are not saying "Best" in an election - just the one that won the most electoral votes.

Not sure how this argument applies to declaring some the best as opposed to most popular or the winner.

Why not take it up with Zymurgy (and Mental Floss, and Men's Journal, and Ratebeer ...)?

 

[ProblemChild]

Why not take it up with Zymurgy (and Mental Floss, and Men's Journal, and Ratebeer ...)?

Nice use of appeal to ridicule. I'm out

 

[skidmark]

Nice use of appeal to ridicule. I'm out

Not at all. These sites/publications also publish "Best Beers in America" lists. Why not challenge them directly rather than beating it to death here?

 

[beernutz]

Then what was the takeaway from your 1st comment? No one was (or is) having a meltdown of any sort, so I guess I don't see why you had to bring in the negativity.

One thing that is clear, the large majority of people posting in this thread believe the poll to either be flawed in its execution (e.g. should be most popular not best beers) or just simply disagree with the results.

The meltdowns I referred to were not on HBT and I wasn't referring to you in the post where I quoted you. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

However, if a survey asks "What do you feel are the best commercial beers in America?" then that would be the appropriate label for its results.

EDIT: For the record I completed the survey the last two years and while I put Pliny in my top 5 it wasn't 1 or 2 and Two Hearted wasn't in my top 10 so the results don't agree with my opinions on the best beers in America. I do think it is interesting to see what a large group of homebrewers think are the best beers even if I don't agree perfectly with them. The meltdowns I've seen on other forums were along the lines of: those homebrewers are morons and the list is complete crap.

 

[bradleypariah]

Wow - Deschuttes is on those lists a few times. Oregon representing

My favorite beers ever are

• Pipewrench by Gigantic Brewing
• Double Inversion by Deschuttes
• Hop Stoopid by Lagunitas
• Brown Shugga by Lagunitas
• American Amber by Rogue
• Six-Hop by Rogue
• Wookie Jack by Firestone Walker
• Fahrenheit by Bunsenbrewer

None of those are even on the list. It's all subjective. The fact that Rogue isn't anywhere on those lists is mind-boggling. I guess the list can only be so long. Rogue is an entire nation, an ecosystem. They run their own farms, grow all their own unique hop strains, they have their own yeast, they feed their own cattle with spent grain. AFAIK, it is the biggest farm-to-glass empire in the country. I could be wrong.
This is a great episode: http://www.ora.tv/beergeeks/2015/4/30/11-rogue-ales-and-spirits-0_42jxjrg0khxp

I've never had Pliney. I've heard so much about it, I'd love to try it. Not sure where to get it in the Portland/Salem area. Our bars and grocers really only have enough room for Pisswässer and the plethora of beers from the Pacific Northwest. They make a few exceptions for the few beers from California that can compete with our quality.
Your beers are excellent, our beers are excellent. May as well just keep it local.

 

[beernutz]

Wow - Deschuttes is on those lists a few times. Oregon representing

My favorite beers ever are

• Pipewrench by Gigantic Brewing
• Double Inversion by Deschuttes
• Hop Stoopid by Lagunitas
• Brown Shugga by Lagunitas
• American Amber by Rogue
• Six-Hop by Rogue
• Wookie Jack by Firestone Walker
• Fahrenheit by Bunsenbrewer

None of those are even on the list. It's all subjective. The fact that Rogue isn't anywhere on those lists is mind-boggling. I guess the list can only be so long. Rogue is an entire nation, an ecosystem. They run their own farms, grow all their own unique hop strains, they have their own yeast, they feed their own cattle with spent grain. AFAIK, it is the biggest farm-to-glass empire in the country. I could be wrong.
This is a great episode: http://www.ora.tv/beergeeks/2015/4/30/11-rogue-ales-and-spirits-0_42jxjrg0khxp

I've never had Pliney. I've heard so much about it, I'd love to try it. Not sure where to get it in the Portland/Salem area. Our bars and grocers really only have enough room for Pisswässer and the plethora of beers from the Pacific Northwest. They make a few exceptions for the few beers from California that can compete with our quality.
Your beers are excellent, our beers are excellent. May as well just keep it local.

I think the Rogue omission is puzzling to me too as they seem to be widely available and have a lot of GABF medals in their past yet none of their beers made the top 50 on the list either this year or last. Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry? I didn't know about those controversies myself before reading that just now but maybe they are more well known on the west coast.

When I last was in Portland ten years ago one of our meals was at the Rogue taproom and I like their beers that I've tried though Dead Guy is the only one widely available in this area.

 

[thunderwagn]

Ive never seen any Bells beer here, period. Its always brought by a relative from MI, where you can buy full strength beer in grocery stores (and a corporation can hold more than one liquor license). You can get Bells from KS now, but NM will be on distribution in the fall.

Limited selections of Bell's makes it to the state (CO). Not sure what part of the state you're in, but when it comes, I can find it in Loveland and Ft Collins. Be on the lookout around GABF and again at Hopslam release.

 

[violinguy]

Two Hearted is my new favorite/go-to beer. I had it for the first time about a year ago and was hooked. Never had Pliny. I'm more surprised that Surly Furious didn't make the beer list, but the brewery made the best breweries list. Hmmmmm

 

[bradleypariah]

Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry?

I hadn't heard. I'm going to go read up on that.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

I think the Rogue omission is puzzling to me too as they seem to be widely available and have a lot of GABF medals in their past yet none of their beers made the top 50 on the list either this year or last. Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry? I didn't know about those controversies myself before reading that just now but maybe they are more well known on the west coast.

When I last was in Portland ten years ago one of our meals was at the Rogue taproom and I like their beers that I've tried though Dead Guy is the only one widely available in this area.

I can't speak for homebrewers in general, but Rogue always seemed like a marketing company more than a brewery. They tried to get into the whole "experimental" high-priced specialty one-off beers very early on.

If you look at their beer list, it's just a bit weird...

• Beard Beer? Why is that a thing?
• Voodoo Doughnut collaborations? If I want a cloyingly-sweet sugar-bomb I'll eat a donut, not drink a beer. This is an unnecessary (and trendy) collaboration.
• Oooh, a sriracha beer? Way to be on trend, guys!
• Another collaboration with Iron Chef Masaharu Morimoto. Exciting, huh?

To me, they've just always seemed gimmicky. Their beers seemed more based on novelty or capturing trends than on tasting good. So I generally haven't paid them much attention.

As a result, I probably haven't had a beer from Rogue in at least 5 years.

 

[govner1]

Personally I don't drink or buy any Bell products because of their penchant for filing frivolous lawsuits against minuscule brewers half way across the country that don't even distribute outside their home area because they chose a name similar, but not registered by Bell, for their name.
Senseless.
So screw Bell's!

 

[triethylborane]

Limited selections of Bell's makes it to the state (CO). Not sure what part of the state you're in, but when it comes, I can find it in Loveland and Ft Collins. Be on the lookout around GABF and again at Hopslam release.

Yeah Im not in that area, but good to know. Hope a distributor agreement is made sometime soon. Love pretty much all their beers.

 

[catdaddy66]

It is the beer that swung my opinion of IPA's a complete 180°! I don't drink it often in order to keep it as special of an experience as possible. Great product and worthy of the honor imo...

 

[b-boy]

Sierra Nevada Celebration. I wouldn't put either in my top 50 list......

What?!?!! You sir, have just made a very powerful enemy!!!

 

[kh54s10]

T8. Sierra Nevada Celebration. I wouldn't put either in my top 50 list......

What?!?!! You sir, have just made a very powerful enemy!!!

I didn't say I didn't like Sierra Nevada Celebration... It is just that I have found so many more that are not on that list that I like better!!!!

Getting beers that are distributed in New England, I don't even get to try some listed. Two of my favorite breweries are Long Trail Brewery in Vermont and Two Roads Brewery in Connecticut. Both have several beers that I would put ahead of Sierra Nevada's.

 

[Kee]

The Top Imports list is more than a little strange, but shows that (like in politics) name recognition is most important.

 

[applescrap]

Haha, my wife just sent me an article from our local paper. According to this quality survey, the best beer made in colorado is left hand nitro milk stout. Now don't get me wrong, Left Hand brewery has a special place in my heart as I would pick up Growlers there on my way back and forth from boulder as long as 20 years ago (avery, zymurgy mag., aha head quarters). Great beers, but cmon man. This prom king and queen stuff is a little silly, isnt it. Oh thats right, didnt you all know the 18th best american beer is left hand nitro milk stout.

Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO
Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...o-named-best-beer-in-colorado-18th-best-in-us

 

[isomerization]

The meltdowns I referred to were not on HBT and I wasn't referring to you in the post where I quoted you. Apologies if I didn't make that clear.

However, if a survey asks "What do you feel are the best commercial beers in America?" then that would be the appropriate label for its results.

EDIT: For the record I completed the survey the last two years and while I put Pliny in my top 5 it wasn't 1 or 2 and Two Hearted wasn't in my top 10 so the results don't agree with my opinions on the best beers in America. I do think it is interesting to see what a large group of homebrewers think are the best beers even if I don't agree perfectly with them. The meltdowns I've seen on other forums were along the lines of: those homebrewers are morons and the list is complete crap.

Yeah, I was probably being too defensive as well. I do find the differences using this format versus the blind taste testing that Paste magazine does quite interesting. I also suspect that the top 10 beers showed up on a ton of people's top 20 list, even if they hadn't tried them, because of how well known they are.

It is the beer that swung my opinion of IPA's a complete 180°! I don't drink it often in order to keep it as special of an experience as possible. Great product and worthy of the honor imo...

This could be another plausible answer as to how the top 10 came out. There might be a much higher percentage of home brewers that don't "really like" IPAs and something more approachable is viewed as superior (not saying that's wrong).

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I think the Rogue omission is puzzling to me too as they seem to be widely available and have a lot of GABF medals in their past yet none of their beers made the top 50 on the list either this year or last. Perhaps part of the reason is due to a negative perception of the brewery as described in their wikipedia entry? I didn't know about those controversies myself before reading that just now but maybe they are more well known on the west coast.

When I last was in Portland ten years ago one of our meals was at the Rogue taproom and I like their beers that I've tried though Dead Guy is the only one widely available in this area.

Dead Guy is on a short list of non-infected beers that I've drain poured. That list contains several other Rogue beers. Not sure what it is about Rogue, but they all have a nasty body odor type taste to them. I call it "The Rogue Effect". Posted about it on Beer Advocate and about 60 % of the responses said "What?" and the other 40% said "Yeah, me too.". I don't even try Rogue beers anymore. I've also had other beers with the same affliction, but Rogue is consistent.

 

[beernutz]

Dead Guy is on a short list of non-infected beers that I've drain poured. That list contains several other Rogue beers. Not sure what it is about Rogue, but they all have a nasty body odor type taste to them. I call it "The Rogue Effect". Posted about it on Beer Advocate and about 60 % of the responses said "What?" and the other 40% said "Yeah, me too.". I don't even try Rogue beers anymore. I've also had other beers with the same affliction, but Rogue is consistent.

Interesting. It has been several years since I had a Dead Guy ale but I am sure I never experienced anything like what you are describing. I wonder what the cause is?

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Interesting. It has been several years since I had a Dead Guy ale but I am sure I never experienced anything like what you are describing. I wonder what the cause is?

I'm really not sure. Given that it's been with every Rogue I've had, I'm assuming it's their yeast, but I really don't know. I'm guessing it's a similar taste reaction like the people who taste cat pee from some hop element (which would suck royally). Some people taste it, some don't.

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Haha, my wife just sent me an article from our local paper. According to this quality survey, the best beer made in colorado is left hand nitro milk stout. Now don't get me wrong, Left Hand brewery has a special place in my heart as I would pick up Growlers there on my way back and forth from boulder as long as 20 years ago (avery, zymurgy mag., aha head quarters). Great beers, but cmon man. This prom king and queen stuff is a little silly, isnt it. Oh thats right, didnt you all know the 18th best american beer is left hand nitro milk stout.

Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO
Left Hand Milk Stout Nitro is best beer in CO - http://www.thedenverchannel.com/new...o-named-best-beer-in-colorado-18th-best-in-us

To be honest, Left Hand Milk Stout is an impressive beer. When I moved from GA (where LH was distributed) to CA (where it is not) in 2007, it was the beer that spurred me to brew my own milk stout.

And nitro was what took an already great beer and pushed it over the top IMHO.

 

[applescrap]

To be honest, Left Hand Milk Stout is an impressive beer. When I moved from GA (where LH was distributed) to CA (where it is not) in 2007, it was the beer that spurred me to brew my own milk stout.

And nitro was what took an already great beer and pushed it over the top IMHO.

Sure, its a great beer, but 18th in america? Its 71 on the ba rating list for colorado, yet number one in this survey. Would you put it in front of ALL these other beers? If so cool, different strokes and all that.

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[AZBeer]

It's interesting to see people's opinion...or tastes. LH Milk Stout is great. Not my favorite but a really good stout.

Right now I have some Two Hearted and some Rouge 7 hop. For my taste buds, the Rouge is far superior, but that's just me. Honestly for me, Two Hearted is a pretty meh IPA. But then again, that's my opinion, not wrong or right, just my opinion.

 

[mbobhat]

Maybe it's one of those generational things, like all the voters are really nostalgic about two hearted, that is true for me b/c I haven't had one in about four years but I didn't vote...it's true that there are newer hops out there as well, but two hearted was one of the original smash beers with centennial that was out of this world...

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

Sure, its a great beer, but 18th in america? Its 71 on the ba rating list for colorado, yet number one in this survey. Would you put it in front of ALL these other beers? If so cool, different strokes and all that.

Well, I don't trust BA rankings for squat. A beer like LH Milk Stout isn't going to do well there because it's not 11% ABV, isn't barrel-aged, isn't soured, doesn't use any outlandish ingredients, etc.

I think it's one of the finest commercial milk stouts I've ever had.

 

[applescrap]

Well, I don't trust BA rankings for squat. A beer like LH Milk Stout isn't going to do well there because it's not 11% ABV, isn't barrel-aged, isn't soured, doesn't use any outlandish ingredients, etc.

I think it's one of the finest commercial milk stouts I've ever had.

Hey cool, I have no problem with that. I grew up 20 minutes away from there. There are back roads, well at least there used to be, between where I'm from and there and Boulder and Fort Collins. I've been driving by there and drinking their beers literally since they opened 20+ years ago. It is a great beer and my memories are very special of those drives and filling ice cold growlers there. Cheers.

 

[MapleGroveAleworks]

Lists get people's panties in a bunch so fast. Taste is subjective, stop worrying about other people's opinions.

 

[Bosh]

Well, I don't trust BA rankings for squat. A beer like LH Milk Stout isn't going to do well there because it's not 11% ABV, isn't barrel-aged, isn't soured, doesn't use any outlandish ingredients, etc.

I think it's one of the finest commercial milk stouts I've ever had.

Yeah it's kind of hilarious how much price tags influence people's perception of quality.

 

[Homercidal]

Don't get me wrong, I think Two Hearted is a really good beer.

But these lists are worse than worthless IMO.

And having had both of them, I can honestly say that Pliny is LEAGUES above Two Hearted in my book. Two Hearted is a great everyday beer. Just about the right balance between pale ale and IPA and using one of my all time favorite hops.

Pliny is just a fantastic beer! More of a special occasion beer for me, but so tasty!

Anyway, these are more popularity contest polls, and there are MANY great beers that won't do well simply because people can't get them and they vote for their local beers, or expensive beers, and beers with notoriety.

Kind of a side note, I had avoided Right Brain beers for a long time because the owner moved form their very cool small and cozy taproom to a huge warehouse location (oddly, away from the "warehouse district". The new place is just too industrial and cold and big and loud. I understand that he has every right to grow, but I wish he had managed to re-create a space in this new huge building for some coziness. Also he fired the head brewer, whom I respected for his unusual recipe formulations. Anyway, due to limited options I chose a CEO Stout from Right Brain at dinner the other night and I was actually surprised at how good it was! Sometimes you gotta get past your hangups and have an open mind. I can see myself picking this beer up at the store now.

 

[NadoHawk]

I am not impressed with either. They are only great because A. they were among the best when they were first released years ago B. more people have had those beers and C. people just rave about them and people assume they are the best never having had them.

I personally prefer Golden Road's Wolf Among Weeds before the recipe was doctored by inBev. And for Russian River, I have not had a sour that has topped theirs.

 

[GOOCHY]

It doesn't matter how long ago Two Hearted was released. It's still among the best beers out there. Is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale somehow less of a beer just because it was first released almost 40 years ago? Nope. It's still the standard.

 

[NadoHawk]

It doesn't matter how long ago Two Hearted was released. It's still among the best beers out there. Is Sierra Nevada Pale Ale somehow less of a beer just because it was first released almost 40 years ago? Nope. It's still the standard.

Then the standard is set pretty low.

 

[Homercidal]

Then the standard is set pretty low.

And your post makes a great point about a beer being popular. With many people's tastes being so different, their can never be an absolutely perfect way to judge the perfect beer.

Based on basic quality alone, Bells is really good. And the flavor is well liked.

There are many similar beers that are done as well, IMO. I've had several right around me. But they could never compare in a vote such as this, because nobody knows about them.

OTOH, not many people can get to taste Pliny (relative to Two Hearted), but the name is very well known. So while Cranker's End of the World IPA can be very good compared to Two Hearted, it's just too unknown to "compete".

That's why I think these kinds of rankings are essentially useless. Better to simply let people who have tasted each beer give their opinion. I'd rather read someone's description about a beer than to judge based on this ranking business.

 

[MHBT]

i love two hearted but its not even close to pliny IMO

 

[betarhoalphadelta]

And hey, Pliny may no longer be the #1 according to Zymurgy, but when I'm at Russian River on Monday morning, you better believe I'm bringing home half a case of Pliny and half a case of Blind Pig! (And some sours. Of course some sours too).

 

[BBQB]

And hey, Pliny may no longer be the #1 according to Zymurgy, but when I'm at Russian River on Monday morning, you better believe I'm bringing home half a case of Pliny and half a case of Blind Pig! (And some sours. Of course some sours too).

Ha ha ha, totally agree