The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

[robdogj]

Just wanted to jump in and say there is a Liverpool fan in the midst of this, and if we are talking about undewhelming seasons, I would like to point out every one since the Premier League replaced the First Division.

have to disagree there bro - in the 2013/14 your best chance to win it all - even after the loss to CFC @ anfield l'pool could have won it by beating Palace - how Palace came back & got a draw is totally unexplainable - up 3 goals, just park the bus but then again I believe GD was the issue there vs Man City - still it was a good run just came up short in the end

 

[Qhrumphf]

I hate bus parking. Just gonna say it. It's a cheap tactic for amateur footballers who are outclassed in every other manner.

 

[robdogj]

I hate bus parking. Just gonna say it. It's a cheap tactic for amateur footballers who are outclassed in every other manner.

but when you are up it's a smart decision - why not? no reason to have holes in your defense when you are already ahead - also I believe the proper term is called, "taking the air out of the ball"

 

[Grannyknot]

i don't mind 11 behind the ball if you are springing counter attacks when you win the ball, but 11 behind the ball and just kicking the crap out of it every time you get it is lame to watch.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I won't deny it's an effective tactic. Worked to keep any given Pulis side towards the middle of the table. Oh, and Chelsea too.

But it's so boring to watch. It's like the campers in FPS multiplayer video games. Yeah it works, yeah it's within the rules, but it's lame.

 

[robdogj]

I won't deny it's an effective tactic. Worked to keep any given Pulis side towards the middle of the table. Oh, and Chelsea too.

again - when you are up by a couple of goals, why even keep pushing forward & allowing holes in your defense? I guess that why CFC won a European Cup & spuds are just happy to participate in the competition - Cheers!!!

 

[Qhrumphf]

And some people wonder why Chelsea fans get about as much respect as the club does...

You seem to show some wonderful understanding and respect for the game. I'll leave it at that, and I'm popping you on the ignore list.

 

[robdogj]

I'm popping you on the ignore list.

 

[RustyHorn]

I won't deny it's an effective tactic. Worked to keep any given Pulis side towards the middle of the table. Oh, and Chelsea too.

But it's so boring to watch. It's like the campers in FPS multiplayer video games. Yeah it works, yeah it's within the rules, but it's lame.

I quite like a solid defensive display. As an Arsenal fan I shouldn't because it has cost us every title since 2004! However, it adds to the dynamic of the game and means that you need to find another way to score. That's the reason we once had Adebayor, and now have Giroud. Not that it has worked out all that well...
I'd love to see Barcelona play in the premier league. Imagine the injuries they'd have to deal with!

 

[Qhrumphf]

I quite like a solid defensive display. As an Arsenal fan I shouldn't because it has cost us every title since 2004! However, it adds to the dynamic of the game and means that you need to find another way to score. That's the reason we once had Adebayor, and now have Giroud. Not that it has worked out all that well...
I'd love to see Barcelona play in the premier league. Imagine the injuries they'd have to deal with!

You don't have to park the bus to be solid defensively. As shown by Spurs not parking the bus EVER and still having the lowest goals against in the league this season. Even after the horrorshow at St. James Park.

 

[Grannyknot]

And some people wonder why Chelsea fans get about as much respect as the club does...

You seem to show some wonderful understanding and respect for the game. I'll leave it at that, and I'm popping you on the ignore list.

lol
grow up

 

[Qhrumphf]

lol
grow up

He's been pushing buttons since he showed back up in this thread.

Stuff far more direct and inciting than what I got in trouble for when I first started posting in this thread. If that's how he thinks the game should be played, fine. I'm not getting in touble again because he's goading me on. I don't know if someone snitched on me initially and I'm not about to snitch on him to the mods, but I find it funny the double standard there.

 

[Grannyknot]

Its just an internet message board chief.
You've taken a few shots at other teams, he took a shot at yours.
Leave it.

 

[RustyHorn]

You don't have to park the bus to be solid defensively. As shown by Spurs not parking the bus EVER and still having the lowest goals against in the league this season. Even after the horrorshow at St. James Park.

But it is a means to being solid.

 

[Qhrumphf]

But it is a means to being solid.

Like I said, I won't deny its efficacy. It certainly works. But it's boring and rings of a desperate team. Protecting a lead when you're down a man, sure. Otherwise I expect better of professionals in top league football. Leave it to the Championship sides fighting for survival.

 

[Qhrumphf]

Leave it.

Precisely what I intend to do.

 

[RustyHorn]

Like I said, I won't deny its efficacy. It certainly works. But it's boring and rings of a desperate team. Protecting a lead when you're down a man, sure. Otherwise I expect better of professionals in top league football. Leave it to the Championship sides fighting for survival.

Well, I enjoy a tactical battle. If you know you can't score, change your tactics accordingly to try and at least win a point.

 

[robdogj]

Well, I enjoy a tactical battle. If you know you can't score, change your tactics accordingly to try and at least win a point.

or you can have the wizardry of a Zinedine Zidane to open up the opposing defense - case in point was the 2006 World Cup QuarterFinals where France defeated Brazil - Brazil tried their best to contain the Great ZZ but one slip in the box messed that all up & that sent Brazil home

 

[Talgrath]

The problem with parking the bus is that it invites the opposition to attack you. With no real attacking outlets you have no way to "keep them honest" and not throw numbers at you. Your lone hold-up/breakaway forward will usually be double-teamed by the two center backs who will usually stay back to provide support and defense while everyone else goes forward. If you lose the lead, since you've set the tone of your team being on defense it can be very hard to get out of that shell and offensive-minded substitutions will be required, which may open your defense up while the subs get into the flow of things. That said, in the Championship with a 3-0 lead on aggregate heading into the match Hull could certainly risk it, there's less quality attacking talent that can break down a parked bus defense in the 2nd division after all. Parking the bus rarely wins you a match, but it can win you a series if you've got enough goals heading into the second leg.

 

[robdogj]

The problem with parking the bus is that it invites the opposition to attack you. With no real attacking outlets you have no way to "keep them honest" and not throw numbers at you. Your lone hold-up/breakaway forward will usually be double-teamed by the two center backs who will usually stay back to provide support and defense while everyone else goes forward. If you lose the lead, since you've set the tone of your team being on defense it can be very hard to get out of that shell and offensive-minded substitutions will be required, which may open your defense up while the subs get into the flow of things. That said, in the Championship with a 3-0 lead on aggregate heading into the match Hull could certainly risk it, there's less quality attacking talent that can break down a parked bus defense in the 2nd division after all. Parking the bus rarely wins you a match, but it can win you a series if you've got enough goals heading into the second leg.

IMHO The Italians have perfected the tactic & even gave us a name to use for their tactic: catenaccio
another poster has brought it up, but a side can't totally go total defensive & must spring some counters to keep the over-aggressive side on their toes. I read some stats that Leicester City only enjoyed 42% of ball possession in most matches, so there are some advantages to this style if a side employs the style correctly.

 

[fourfarthing]

ZZ showed how to open up the heart of a defense. But it was Matterazzi's. Parking the bus is not football.

Football is about balance and bus parking is about being a pansy.

 

[robdogj]

ZZ showed how to open up the heart of a defense. But it was Matterazzi's. Parking the bus is not football.

ah I see what you done there

 

[Talgrath]

IMHO The Italians have perfected the tactic & even gave us a name to use for their tactic: catenaccio
another poster has brought it up, but a side can't totally go total defensive & must spring some counters to keep the over-aggressive side on their toes. I read some stats that Leicester City only enjoyed 42% of ball possession in most matches, so there are some advantages to this style if a side employs the style correctly.

Oh yes, Catenaccio is a perfectly valid tactic, but "parking the bus" usually means everyone but 1 striker back to defend and an complete defensive commitment with a "boot it towards the forward and see if he can do something" passing style. Catenaccio, when pulled off correctly, is an excellent choice, that's not what Hull did though.

 

[Qhrumphf]

 

[robdogj]

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

US Soccer announced their roster for Copa America.

GOALKEEPERS (3): 1-Brad Guzan (Aston Villa), 12-Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids), 22-Ethan Horvath (Molde IK)

DEFENDERS (8): 5-Matt Besler (Sporting KC), 3-Steve Birnbaum (D.C. United), 6-John Brooks (Hertha Berlin), 20-Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), 21-Timmy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt), 23-Fabian Johnson (Borussia Moenchengladbach), 14-Michael Orozco (Club Tijuana), 2-DeAndre Yedlin (Tottenham Hotspur)

MIDFIELDERS/FORWARDS (12): 15-Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), 11-Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes), 4-Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), 8-Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders FC), 13-Jermaine Jones (Colorado Rapids), 16-Perry Kitchen (Heart of Midlothian), 10-Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), 17-Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund), 18-Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), 7-Bobby Wood (Hamburg SV), 20-Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy), 19-Graham Zusi (Sporting KC)

Some thoughts, interesting that Fabian is listed as a defender. Which gives me 2 thoughts. One Jurgen will just ignore it as he's done in the past. Second is maybe we see the 3 man back again? With Besler, Brooks, and Cameron that is 3 high quality and complimentary CBs. Add in that otherwise you have 3 reserve CBs, is that a little excessive (though Cameron, Orozco and Birnbaum could play elsewhere if needed)

Second interesting thing is the glut of central mids. Bradley, Beckerman, Jones, Kitchen, Nagbe, Bedoya, and Zusi are all current or former central players. I think Jurgen will use Nagbe, Bedoya, and Zusi out wide for sure, and maybe Jones. Could also use Gyasi out wide as well.

I'm hoping for a 4-2-3-1

GK - Guzan
RB - Yedlin
CB - Cameron
CB - Brooks
LB - Johnson
CDM - Kitchen
CDM - Jones
RAM - Bedoya
CAM - Bradley
LAM - WOod
ST - Dempsey

Dempsey and Wood are reversible, as this scenario that LAM is basically a support striker and Bradley at CAM will play a bit further back than the other attacking mids.

For me the exciting things are Horvath and Pulisic. Horvath is 20 years old and obviously catching Jurgen's attention. Hopefully him being picked gets some bigger teams to look at him. Pulisic is obviously a known exciting young commodity.

 

[robdogj]

US Soccer announced their roster for Copa America.

GOALKEEPERS (3): 1-Brad Guzan (Aston Villa), 12-Tim Howard (Colorado Rapids), 22-Ethan Horvath (Molde IK)

DEFENDERS (8): 5-Matt Besler (Sporting KC), 3-Steve Birnbaum (D.C. United), 6-John Brooks (Hertha Berlin), 20-Geoff Cameron (Stoke City), 21-Timmy Chandler (Eintracht Frankfurt), 23-Fabian Johnson (Borussia Moenchengladbach), 14-Michael Orozco (Club Tijuana), 2-DeAndre Yedlin (Tottenham Hotspur)

MIDFIELDERS/FORWARDS (12): 15-Kyle Beckerman (Real Salt Lake), 11-Alejandro Bedoya (Nantes), 4-Michael Bradley (Toronto FC), 8-Clint Dempsey (Seattle Sounders FC), 13-Jermaine Jones (Colorado Rapids), 16-Perry Kitchen (Heart of Midlothian), 10-Darlington Nagbe (Portland Timbers), 17-Christian Pulisic (Borussia Dortmund), 18-Chris Wondolowski (San Jose Earthquakes), 7-Bobby Wood (Hamburg SV), 20-Gyasi Zardes (LA Galaxy), 19-Graham Zusi (Sporting KC)

Some thoughts, interesting that Fabian is listed as a defender. Which gives me 2 thoughts. One Jurgen will just ignore it as he's done in the past. Second is maybe we see the 3 man back again? With Besler, Brooks, and Cameron that is 3 high quality and complimentary CBs. Add in that otherwise you have 3 reserve CBs, is that a little excessive (though Cameron, Orozco and Birnbaum could play elsewhere if needed)

Second interesting thing is the glut of central mids. Bradley, Beckerman, Jones, Kitchen, Nagbe, Bedoya, and Zusi are all current or former central players. I think Jurgen will use Nagbe, Bedoya, and Zusi out wide for sure, and maybe Jones. Could also use Gyasi out wide as well.

I'm hoping for a 4-2-3-1

GK - Guzan
RB - Yedlin
CB - Cameron
CB - Brooks
LB - Johnson
CDM - Kitchen
CDM - Jones
RAM - Bedoya
CAM - Bradley
LAM - WOod
ST - Dempsey

Dempsey and Wood are reversible, as this scenario that LAM is basically a support striker and Bradley at CAM will play a bit further back than the other attacking mids.

For me the exciting things are Horvath and Pulisic. Horvath is 20 years old and obviously catching Jurgen's attention. Hopefully him being picked gets some bigger teams to look at him. Pulisic is obviously a known exciting young commodity.

good stuff here mate - couple of things that I am upset about this selection
1.) why is Chandler on the squad? Dude is a straight scrub
2.) Where is Yarbrough, Villafanna, Bornstein or Shea? ok Yarbrough is still playing for the Liga MX playoffs

other than that I am ok with the selection, but Herr Klinsmann better bring the A game - Copa America Centenario will not be a walk in the park - I have seen some of the squads the other countries are bringing - they are pretty much bringing their A squads - the only one that really isn't is Brazil, but still there are some solid ballers on that side, led by Hulk

 

[hoppyhoppyhippo]

Chandler is getting another shot. CHandler is the opposite of Jozy. Jozy is aplayer who can never seem to put it together for club, but dominates for country, Chandler is very good for club but struggles for country. Maybe it's motivation? Chandler's form was off this year but that primarily had to do with injuries. I'm guessing Jurgen has seen enough to give hima shot. In terms of raw ability, there's not a better RB for USMNT. Chandler has great pace, strength, and he's got a lot of skill on the ball. For some reason it hasn't fully shown on the national level. I do think all too often though he gets a lot of crap for stuff that isn't really his fault. There are certain players who become whipping boys for the USMNT. Chandler became one, probably for when he refused a callup that would have captied him to the US hoping to get a German call.

I'm a little upset Villafana hasn't gotten a look. I think if he wasn't sold in January he would have been in January camp, but I hope he gets a look. From what I've read he's done well in Liga MX. Shea I'm not 100% sure. BOrnstein though? I haven't been following him, but unless he learned to not be ass I don't ever want to see him called up. He was horrific for USMNT. Probably the worst regular player in the last decade. I see that he's actually playing now though. SO that's an improvement from sitting on the bench at Tigres.

Brazil brought an A squad. The missing players are guys who'll almost certainly be playing in the Olympics. Like Neymar. I wouldn't want to face them. Their CB pairing will be weak most likely, but with ALves and Filipe Luis they have 2 world class full backs. In the midfield they have stars in Gustavo, Coutinho, and Willian and super young talents as well. Then of course they're stacked at forward with Douglas Costa and Hulk spearheading it. Also by my understanding ALlisson is their first choice GK. so they're missing some big players (Thiago Silva and Neymar being the 2 biggest) but tthey're still bringing a lot of heat and they have a cake group so they get some time to iron out the details.

How I look at Copa.

Getting out fo the group would be huge. Our draw was rough, next best CONCACAF team by a mile in Costa Rica, the best or second best team from pot B (between Chile or Columbia) and the best team from pot D. WE got the "group of death" as cliche as it may be. We should beat Paraguay, but Costa Rica will be tough. ANd losing to Columbia is basically a given. If we get a point I may do a naked lap.

If we get out of group, I expect short of a lucky draw in the second round to be out then. Mexico or Ecuador are our likely best shots to advance.

 

[robdogj]

Chandler is very good for club but struggles for country.

Have you seen Eintracht Frankfurt play? I have & Chandler wasn't all that. I have to disagree w/ you there. I rather see Marvell Wynne play instead of Chandler @ RB.

Thiago Silva and Neymar being the 2 biggest) but tthey're still bringing a lot of heat and they have a cake group so they get some time to iron out the details.

David Luiz & Marcelo didn't get selected either, but Brazil has amazing footballers. However I don't think this current side would beat Uruguay or Argentina if they met in the tourney.

 

[Talgrath]

If I was going for my true preference, we'd see Nagbe as CAM and Bradley and Kitchen as dual CDMs, but I'm not sure that will happen. As for Zusi, while he has played centrally in the past he's playing better football as a winger in a 4-3-3 for Sporting KC; so I think using him as a wide player is likely. Personally I'd rather see Zardes, Zusi or Pulisic as midfielders/wingers instead of Bedoya, Bedoya is a good two-way midfielder but with two CDMs you really don't need as much defensive strength, personally I think I'd go with Zusi based on his current form and past experience. That said, I think your line up is something closer to what Klinsmann is likely to put out.