The Great Rock & Roll Swindle

[Cheesefood]

Who's produced better rock?

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

The Zepp. Not Sammy Hagar. Black Sabbath. Not Aerosmith. The Who. Not Bon Jovi. Hendrix (he was embraced there first.)

Hands-down, England.

 

[Fiery Sword]

I guess, based upon the wording of the question, I'd have to say England. It's hard to argue with the Beatles, Stones, Zep, Floyd. however, I think it's all about the interaction. All those previously mentioned bands would have never happened if it were not for the old American blues legends, Buddy Holly, Elvis, and Bob Dylan. English 'classic' rock CAME from American music. Same with punk.

I'd have to say, though, that America has taken the lead in the last two decades. Grunge of the early 90's through current Indie/Alternative (Built To Spill, Malkmus, Shins, the Portland, OR scene....) beats out the Brits.

 

[Cheesefood]

The Zepp. Not Sammy Hagar. Black Sabbath. Not Aerosmith. The Who. Not Bon Jovi. Hendrix (he was embraced there first.)

Hands-down, England.

Stones, Beatles, Maiden, Donovan (despite the mostly hippy stuff, he rawks), Sex Pistols, Queen, Motorhead...

 

[Copperhed]

Best golfer-black
Best rapper-white
Best guitarist-W&B Clapton/Jimi

As to the poll,
Best "rock"? Was born from R&B, right here in the US of A.

Thank you very much,
Copper

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

Best golfer-black
Best rapper-white
Best guitarist-W&B Clapton/Jimi

As to the poll,
Best "rock"? Was born from R&B, right here in the US of A.

Thank you very much,
Copper

Not yet he aint:

Player Wins
Sam Snead - 82
Jack Nicklaus - 73
Ben Hogan - 64
Arnold Palmer - 62
Tiger Woods - 55
Byron Nelson - 52

Oh yeah, and Vanilla Ice Sucked, and so does Clapton since he put down his ES-335.

 

[Fiery Sword]

The more I think about it, though, the more I wouldn't sell 60's/70's American music short:

Bob Dylan (takes out Beatles)
Beach Boys (takes out Stones)
Jimi Hendrix (takes out Zep)
The Doors (takes out Who)
The Velvet Underground (takes out Queen)
The Grateful Dead (takes out Oasis )
Creedence (takes out everyone)
The Byrds (takes out all remaining)
AND, Mountain (takes out Sabbath. Really.)

 

[Cheesefood]

Best guitarist-W&B Clapton/Jimi

White: Joe Satriani/Kyle Gass
Black: BB King. Jimi was good, but BB can play.

 

[Copperhed]

Not yet he aint:

Player Wins
Sam Snead - 82
Jack Nicklaus - 73
Ben Hogan - 64
Arnold Palmer - 62
Tiger Woods - 55
Byron Nelson - 52

Oh yeah, and Vanilla Ice Sucked, and so does Clapton since he put down his ES-335.

I'll allow you all the above, but don't mess with Eric.
He rules and you know it.
Retires, and still rules in my book.

Copper

 

[Cheesefood]

Bob Dylan (takes out Beatles) <-Huh? Not even sorta the same
Beach Boys (takes out Stones) <-Whaaaa?
Jimi Hendrix (takes out Zep) <-All 3 years of his career?
The Doors (takes out Who) <--All 6 years of their career?
The Velvet Underground (takes out Queen) <--Yeah, because "Shiny Boots" is played at every sporting event, right?
The Grateful Dead (takes out Oasis ) <-Totally
Creedence (takes out everyone) <-Only w/Fogarty
The Byrds (takes out all remaining) <--Not the Yardbirds or the_bird
AND, Mountain (takes out Sabbath. Really.) <-Nope.

 

[Rhoobarb]

If it weren't for the English and their love for American rock/blues/R&B of the 50's, rock & roll as we know it might well have been dead by 1963. American's had all but forgotten about our 'roots music'. The songs topping the charts in 1961 & 62 were pretty banal. The Four Seasons, The Lettermen, Chubby Checker, Jan & Dean, Leslie Gore, The Angels - a lot of syrupy ballads and fluffy up-tempo stuff - was doninating the charts. Elvis was in the army and even his songs at the time were not in the same league as Heartbreak Hotel or Jailhouse Rock.

It was the Beatles, the Stones and their ilk across the pond that kept Buddy Holly, Chuck Berry, Muddy Waters, Eddie Cochran and early Elvis on their turntalbes and infused into their music.

When the British invasion of the 60s came along, it was as if Americans were hearing this music for the first time again!

 

[Copperhed]

Stevie Raye Vaughn (the guitarist King) iffen ya wanna get technical.
Thought we were dixcussing icons/hasbeens.

Copper

 

[Fiery Sword]

White: Joe Satriani/Kyle Gass
Black: BB King. Jimi was good, but BB can play.

White: Stevie Ray
Black: Jimi (I love BB, but it's a totally different animal. He's much more traditional, and he phrases his playing as if it were a vocal line. Low and slow. Make it talk. Jimi completely revolutionized the very concept of the electric guitar. BB, Clapton, Page, Richards, Townsend, et al say Jimi broke the electric guitar out of the box....it's hard to argue with them!)

 

[Cheesefood]

White: Stevie Ray
Black: Jimi (I love BB, but it's a totally different animal. He's much more traditional, and he phrases his playing as if it were a vocal line. Low and slow. Make it talk. Jimi completely revolutionized the very concept of the electric guitar. BB, Clapton, Page, Richards, Townsend, et al say Jimi broke the electric guitar out of the box....it's hard to argue with them!)

Then how about Frampton?

 

[MriswitH]

You forgot the collective of Scandanavia, Cheese.

 

[Fiery Sword]

Then how about Frampton?

I used a talk box once and was disgusted about the amount of drool I had to deal with. I musta needed Frampton to show me the way.

 

[Copperhed]

Was in drug treatment with Stevie in ATL. GA 1988. Got some cool music he gave me.
Love the sound he has/had, he rules.
Cried when the copter went down with him and some of the band..

Copper

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

White: Stevie Ray
Black: Jimi (I love BB, but it's a totally different animal. He's much more traditional, and he phrases his playing as if it were a vocal line. Low and slow. Make it talk. Jimi completely revolutionized the very concept of the electric guitar. BB, Clapton, Page, Richards, Townsend, et al say Jimi broke the electric guitar out of the box....it's hard to argue with them!)

Gonna have to go with you on this one. I've heard most of those guys give Jimi the credit for changing the electric guitar. All except Page, that is. Hendrix and Page never talked about each other - even when prompted. I'd love some cites which prove otherwise.
It was the English who brought Jimi to America, so his music must be considered theirs. It's true.

 

[user 574]

Historically I think it swinged back and forth based on the decade. 50's I'd give to the US. 60's I'd probably share between US/UK. 70's is completely UK. 80's? There was a lot of musical flavor going on then. Good underground stuff, the commercial sucked (hair bands?, Flocks of Seagulls? come on!). 90's grunge and you hip-hoppers goes to the US. I'm not liking much in the 00's. That mean I'm getting old?

 

[Fiery Sword]

Gonna have to go with you on this one. I've heard most of those guys give Jimi the credit for changing the electric guitar. All except Page, that is. Hendrix and Page never talked about each other - even when prompted. I'd love some cites which prove otherwise.
It was the English who brought Jimi to America, so his music must be considered theirs. It's true.

I never knew the Hendrix/Page thang. Doesn't surprise me that much tho. Page has a big head (I would to if I were him).
I agree 98% about Jimi. Plus, the Experience was British, no? But he is also a distinctly American cultural and musical icon. He preached the gospel of Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, etc - it's hard not to consider him American despite the was his career panned out.

 

[Cheesefood]

Funny how America created Rock, and the Brits really picked up on it (like Rhoob mentioned). Then the Brits create punk, and the Americans pick up on it. (No disputing it - American Punk kicks Brit Punk's arse).

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

I agree 98% about Jimi. Plus, the Experience was British, no? But he is also a distinctly American cultural and musical icon. He preached the gospel of Muddy Waters, John Lee Hooker, etc - it's hard not to consider him American despite the was his career panned out.

Yeah this debate could go on forever. I kinda look at it like this: Jimi played and tried to make it in the US for about 5 years before he went to Europe, where he immediately became a huge success. The 'mercan's had their chance to recognize him and they didn't. Same thing happened to SRV - David Bowie gave him his big break on Let's Dance. When the Brits say it's good, it must be good.

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

American Punk kicks Brit Punk's arse

Long live the Dead Kennedys!!!

 

[Fiery Sword]

Totally agreed, Chairman - and Cheese. The back-and-forth nature of music between England and America really is fascinating to me. No matter how you cut it, both countries would musically suffer w/o the other.

I honestly don't know what the rock music scene in Britan is like right now. Over the last 4-5 years bands like Wilco, BtS, Shins, Malkmus have begun to renew my faith in American rock music. What is the current British equivalent? Are any of these bands even semi=popular there? (I guess the question could be asked whether any of them are actually popular HERE, also......they certainly aren't mass-marketed in the fashoin one has to be to be a 'huge' act. Sad what the industry has done. DJ's don't even pick what they play most often. My cousin is a DJ at WFNX here in the Boston area and he friggin picks songs off a list on his computer. It's all bought and paid for. So much for a local buzz going inter/national.

/rant

 

[Copperhed]

Jimi
Clapton
Stevie

However ya wanna place them.

Copper

USA is the home of R&B.
The Brits spawned from our "melting pot"

 

[Copperhed]

Totally agreed, Chairman - and Cheese. The back-and-forth nature of music between England and America really is fascinating to me. No matter how you cut it, both countries would musically suffer w/o the other.

I honestly don't know what the rock music scene in Britan is like right now. Over the last 4-5 years bands like Wilco, BtS, Shins, Malkmus have begun to renew my faith in American rock music. What is the current British equivalent? Are any of these bands even semi=popular there? (I guess the question could be asked whether any of them are actually popular HERE, also......they certainly aren't mass-marketed in the fashoin one has to be to be a 'huge' act. Sad what the industry has done. DJ's don't even pick what they play most often. My cousin is a DJ at WFNX here in the Boston area and he friggin picks songs off a list on his computer. It's all bought and paid for. So much for a local buzz going inter/national.

/rant

Copper

 

[Chairman Cheyco]

USA is the home of R&B.
The Brits spawned from our "melting pot"

By that logic, the Americas are European colonies, therefore it all came from over there, etcetera ad nausea...

 

[Cheesefood]

By that logic, the Americas are European colonies, therefore it all came from over there, etcetera ad nausea...

When will Canada give us the next Rush? You guys owe us after Bryan Adams and Barenaked Ladies.

 

[Fiery Sword]

...and Barenaked Ladies.

ChicketyChina the Chinese chicken
you have a drumstick and your brain stops tickin'
The damn band left this entire country a stupider, sadder place.

.....But I give Canada an eternal pass simply for Neil Young.

 

[MriswitH]

Totally agreed, Chairman - and Cheese. The back-and-forth nature of music between England and America really is fascinating to me. No matter how you cut it, both countries would musically suffer w/o the other.

Its neat to see the trends and how they influence artists as they cross the pond.

I'm not sure how many of you are into metal music, but early 90's Gothenburg-esque metal is pretty evident in bands spanning the last decade.

Bands like Carcass and At The Gates heavily influenced modern American Metal, to say the least. Bands like Job For a Cowboy, The Black Dahlia Murder, As I Lay Dying, etc., etc., etc.; all took notes from these guys.