BrewnWKopperKat
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How do you convert ppm (for each of those items) into grams?
Greatness: always out of reach?
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And if that can that be done in Brewfather, Beersmith, etc.?
You add the asorbic acid post boil/pre-fermentation? Genus Brewing (where I learned the asorbic acid trick) seemed to suggest adding it in the mash. I always felt adding it in the mash was a waste and would be eventually boiled off.
Clearly yes - at kegging. That's it.
Imo everything that happens before fermentation has potential character modifying possibilities but doesn't have much effect on shelf life...
Cheers!
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Not so sure I totally agree. Removing dissolved oxygen from strike water is the basis of staunching the staling effects of O2. Since I do continuous recirculating during mash, treating mash water is important, as is treatment in the late boil that helps keep D.O. in check through chilling, whirlpooling, and transferring into the fermenter.
Of course, the first thing we do before pitching yeast is to oxygenate, but nearly 100% of that O2 gets metabolized in the early stages of fermentation. I do closed transfers under CO2 pressure into sanitized CO2 purged kegs.
I don’t brew hazies, but my IPAs stay fresh for months and Continental lagers with noble hops last even longer. I’ll continue reducing the amount of Trifecta in mash and late boil and start adding ascorbic (and maybe NaMeta) at packaging to see how well they hold up after packaging.
Greatness is never out of reach. I'm right here. 
So, my thoughts are, whatever character changes induced via oxygen uptake from strike to the end of boil have happened, but post-boil wort O2 content is pretty much zilch. Then post-pitch I introduce straight O2 shooting for 12 ppm, but that oxygen is theoretically consumed within a matter of hours going into fermentation.
All that is pretty much rote. To me the cold-side O2 game really begins when fermentation is within a couple of points of FG. From that point on everything becomes important...
Cheers!
All that is pretty much rote. To me the cold-side O2 game really begins when fermentation is within a couple of points of FG. From that point on everything becomes important...
Cheers!
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The only recipe I've ever "perfected" is my pumpkin bread. I had to make it about 20+ times to get the process down. It really was more process than ingredient changes that made the difference between good and great.
I suspect brewing would take repeating a recipe numerous times to dial it in, but personally I rarely make the same recipe more than once a year. I've been considering making every other brew a "house" recipe to work on it.
I suspect brewing would take repeating a recipe numerous times to dial it in, but personally I rarely make the same recipe more than once a year. I've been considering making every other brew a "house" recipe to work on it.
IIRC from cider making, 10ppm is ~1 campden tablet per 5 gallons. Been a while, though, and I know there's some free ion math that is usually more important than straight quantity.
While I am still new to all of this, about 2 years now, I feel much the same as most. I have had friends I have given beers to who have given me some strong feedback. Mostly have said my beers are really good. Now, with that said, let me also say they are cops, so personal feelings never really enter the game. LOL. If it was to suck, they would tell me that I think and I would respect that. I want to always know what others think, because as it has been said, I am my own worst critic. Once the brew day is done, and I have cleaned up the mess I have made, I then move on to two weeks, if not more, of worrying about whether the beer is going to suck or not. LOL. I have a pretty good routine now, and cleanliness is a very important part of it. I probably use more StarSan than I should, but I wan to make sure nothing is going to happen that is within my control. As you all can see, I am not afraid to ask stupid questions, and have on many occasions. LOL. Will I ever achieve the kinds of beers that are produced commercially? Probably not. They have equipment and processes way above what I can produce in my garage with a 10 gallon kettle and a propane burner. Will I keep trying? HELL YEA!!!!!! To me, the process is fun, and the results have been better in some cases and not so good in others. But with the help of all you folks here, I feel that I have much more to learn and much more to try. So, to me, are my beers great? Nope. Are they as good as I can get them? Nope. Am I enjoying the fact that I can make my own beer and enjoy it with friends? YEP!!!! And that's why I do it. Rock on!!!!!!
For 10 ppm, that's about 0.038g per gallon. For a typical 5 gallon batch, I add about 0.2g of each. I just add it to the container of priming sugar solution.
A small gram scale comes in handy, as I don't want to guess using volume measurement.
Do you use the same mount Genus recommends for the mash or do you go a totally different route?
I have no idea who or what "Genus" might be.
I use 1 tsp of Ascorbic Acid powder dissolved in 30ml of warm water, injected into each pre-purged 5 gallon keg just prior to filling...
Cheers!
I use 1 tsp of Ascorbic Acid powder dissolved in 30ml of warm water, injected into each pre-purged 5 gallon keg just prior to filling...
Cheers!
Genus Brewing on YouTube. I thought I mentioned that channel in my prior post. Sorry about that. Here's a video where Peter from Genus goes into more detail.
MrClint
Well-Known Member
Great can be the enemy of good and vice versa. Great can also be a phantom. I'm happy with good to very good. Right now my focus is on optimizing the process, and optimizing/limiting the variety of beers that I brew, as well as the number of hops, malts and yeasts that I have on hand. Keeping it simple, small, fun, easy and good is the sweet spot for me.
CKuhns
Everything learned in Kindergarten still applies!
I dont brew beer. Have been making Mead and Hard Cider for a lot of years.
Great topic, it applies as well.
I dont get do competitions. Im pleased when a Mead or Cider is what I consider good enough to be shared with friends and family. With that said, as i have learned and continue to perfect my techniques, practices and protocols what i now consider to be worthy of sharing has evolved as well. What once was a good Mead or Cider now may not make the cut.
We all have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and yes at times can be very critical of our craft. Some i thought were just ok, yet my friends and family 9ften like them enough to request them. That feels good.
Part of the fun of what we do is the experimentation. Brewing beer, fermenting honey or apple juice all have so many variables as it relates to the base ingredients and flavors that can be added that the options are almost endless. Whats exciting for me is to see what works and try the next "thing".
Think of it this way, if i only make a traditional mead and make it to what i consider as near perfect as i could get. How boring would that be? BUT... if i make a "good" traditional, melomel, acerglyn, bouchet etc,. Thats like walking into a Tap Room and picking what to drink by the mood or current preference i have at that moment.
Brew on (or ferment on) enjoy the journey!
Great topic, it applies as well.
I dont get do competitions. Im pleased when a Mead or Cider is what I consider good enough to be shared with friends and family. With that said, as i have learned and continue to perfect my techniques, practices and protocols what i now consider to be worthy of sharing has evolved as well. What once was a good Mead or Cider now may not make the cut.
We all have our own preferences, likes and dislikes and yes at times can be very critical of our craft. Some i thought were just ok, yet my friends and family 9ften like them enough to request them. That feels good.
Part of the fun of what we do is the experimentation. Brewing beer, fermenting honey or apple juice all have so many variables as it relates to the base ingredients and flavors that can be added that the options are almost endless. Whats exciting for me is to see what works and try the next "thing".
Think of it this way, if i only make a traditional mead and make it to what i consider as near perfect as i could get. How boring would that be? BUT... if i make a "good" traditional, melomel, acerglyn, bouchet etc,. Thats like walking into a Tap Room and picking what to drink by the mood or current preference i have at that moment.
Brew on (or ferment on) enjoy the journey!
You could apply that level of fleeting fancy to anything such that states of being are meaningless. Are you happy? Are you alive? Is this a philosophy lecture or a beer forum?
OP
OP
BJCP judging reaches toward objectivity - very commenable, for sure. Speaking of philosophy, I'm big on empiricism. And skepticism. And science. But...
My curiosity in launching this thread is tied firmly to the brewer's subjective judgment - perhaps informed (or misinformed) by others' judgments, but mostly driven by one's experience of one's own beers.
"Woo"? Or maybe just less interesting to some than others.
Got it. All I can say is that I've thought my brews were great even when they were objectively not. However, MI didn't learn of that until my taste became more refined. In a way, understanding and recognizing typical flaws is a curse because despite being advanced enough to avoid most problems, it stings way harder when they pop up. My biggest frustration lately is not being able to repeat great beers, even to the level of the previous batch. I guess the question, properly aligned with the spirit of this thread, is whether my beer is actually very close to what it was and my expectation were subconsciously elevated, or does it actually suck?
OP
OP
I can relate to the frustration @Bobby_M describes. I've tried to accept that, even with solid and consistent process and ingredients, I'm going to get somewhat varied results including flaws that even i can detect.
It's a bitter pill to swallow, both because I can't reliably reproduce the moments of "greatness" I crave, and because I can't escape the sense that my process isn't as fully under my control as I want to believe.
There's bound to be some frustration and disappointment along the way. But also considerable joy. I celebrate the high points and my ability to make varied, interesting, tasty beers almost all the time.
Cheers!
It's a bitter pill to swallow, both because I can't reliably reproduce the moments of "greatness" I crave, and because I can't escape the sense that my process isn't as fully under my control as I want to believe.
There's bound to be some frustration and disappointment along the way. But also considerable joy. I celebrate the high points and my ability to make varied, interesting, tasty beers almost all the time.
Cheers!
Another reason to not start a brewery 
Can you imagine dealing with the variation on a large scale? You would pull your hair out.
For me, the largest variable in homebrewing is yeast. I decided a little while back that I would focus on my yeast handling and try to get a consistent repeatable workflow going. Still an ongoing work in progress but it is a goal.
Can you imagine dealing with the variation on a large scale? You would pull your hair out.For me, the largest variable in homebrewing is yeast. I decided a little while back that I would focus on my yeast handling and try to get a consistent repeatable workflow going. Still an ongoing work in progress but it is a goal.
Red over White
Well-Known Member
I do find it interesting how just changing the serving temperature and carbonation level can influence how a beer is perceived.
Or even the vessel in which it's served.
OP
OP
An Italian wine tour guide told me that a bottle of wine is a conversation, which begins when the cork is pulled and progresses until the bottle is empty. Classically, this happens during a meal, so the food influences things. The first sip and the last may be quite different.
As with wine, our perception of the beer also changes depending on what's going on in our mouths. With a batch of beer, the "conversation" is much longer. Things may change as the beer itself changes - conditioning, aging, staling, as @huckdavidson hinted. Many factors influence the beer experience, as @Red over White notes. Even the serving vessel affects perception as @Skeeter686 says. So many variables, which BJCP protocols seek to limit but cannot fully avoid.
My overall judgment of a batch of beer accumulates over time. First impressions matter more, as with meeting someone new. Even if "greatness" might be thought of as a momentary phenomenon as Huck said, what I'm hoping is that an overall exceptional batch can be more reliably repeated, and that I'll somehow feel even happier with more of my beers.
Educating my palate might help, but could also backfire - @Bobby_M's "curse" from #47, above. Other help could come from developing beer knowledge per @Bassman2003 in #7 and seeking BJCP-type feedback per Bobby in #20. But the "rising bar" problem resists these practical approaches. Perhaps I need to redefine it as a feature, not a bug.
As with wine, our perception of the beer also changes depending on what's going on in our mouths. With a batch of beer, the "conversation" is much longer. Things may change as the beer itself changes - conditioning, aging, staling, as @huckdavidson hinted. Many factors influence the beer experience, as @Red over White notes. Even the serving vessel affects perception as @Skeeter686 says. So many variables, which BJCP protocols seek to limit but cannot fully avoid.
My overall judgment of a batch of beer accumulates over time. First impressions matter more, as with meeting someone new. Even if "greatness" might be thought of as a momentary phenomenon as Huck said, what I'm hoping is that an overall exceptional batch can be more reliably repeated, and that I'll somehow feel even happier with more of my beers.
Educating my palate might help, but could also backfire - @Bobby_M's "curse" from #47, above. Other help could come from developing beer knowledge per @Bassman2003 in #7 and seeking BJCP-type feedback per Bobby in #20. But the "rising bar" problem resists these practical approaches. Perhaps I need to redefine it as a feature, not a bug.
Yes, success and our palettes' are a moving target. For me, it is a fun hobby and while I am into the tech and knowledge, I try to stay in the camp of just making beer at home. Otherwise I fear burnout will set in.
I also find that through the course of a keg I tend to warm up to any beer I make. I do not know the psychology behind that but it is repeatable!
I also find that through the course of a keg I tend to warm up to any beer I make. I do not know the psychology behind that but it is repeatable!
I think time and patience is also what separates good from greatness. Many here always push the "just give it time" when questions come up about a particular brew not going as expected, and they are right.
I made a recent attempt at a Mexi-lager. I had most if not all the ingredients on hand for a Pacifico clone. I made a 3L starter of Que Bueno yeast and was hoping to do a pressurized fermentation at around 66F/15psi. Unfortunately, I couldn't get my All-Rounder to seal so I just gave up and left it to fate. The beer fermented at 74F vs the recommended mid 50s. Initial tastes seemed a bit sulfury and it looked very cloudy. At one point, I thought about dumping it. The brew day wasn't my best and I was just kinda done with it. I waited about 3 weeks, then kegged it and put it in the fridge for a month before touching it. Even though this is one of my beers that over attenuated (6.5% abv), it's one of my favorite beers on tap right now. Also, now I know that Que Bueno is a pretty robust lager yeast when fermenting at higher temps. It's cleared up a lot too. Pic below, (no finings added). Because of the hot ferment, I called it Caliente Lagerito.
Glad I didn't dump it...
I made a recent attempt at a Mexi-lager. I had most if not all the ingredients on hand for a Pacifico clone. I made a 3L starter of Que Bueno yeast and was hoping to do a pressurized fermentation at around 66F/15psi. Unfortunately, I couldn't get my All-Rounder to seal so I just gave up and left it to fate. The beer fermented at 74F vs the recommended mid 50s. Initial tastes seemed a bit sulfury and it looked very cloudy. At one point, I thought about dumping it. The brew day wasn't my best and I was just kinda done with it. I waited about 3 weeks, then kegged it and put it in the fridge for a month before touching it. Even though this is one of my beers that over attenuated (6.5% abv), it's one of my favorite beers on tap right now. Also, now I know that Que Bueno is a pretty robust lager yeast when fermenting at higher temps. It's cleared up a lot too. Pic below, (no finings added). Because of the hot ferment, I called it Caliente Lagerito.
Glad I didn't dump it...
rmr9
Well-Known Member
I definitely agree with many of the posts here. Greatness (as I would define it for myself) is always out of reach one way or another. I’ve been brewing for a long time now and every once in a while I feel like I’ve taken a few steps back and several batches in a row are disappointing.
