The Great Hop Experiment

[kaz4121]

We still need 8 other brewers!

After checking out the 2013 edition of the 12 Beers of Christmas (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/12-beers-christmas-2013-edition-need-brewers-422879/), I realized that HBT could potentially benefit from some additional group "experiments".

If you're like me, you've heard of the various hopping techniques, from traditional (bittering, flavor, and aroma additions) to continuous (adding hops throughout the entire brew process) to FWH (adding hops into the wort before boil) to double dry hopping (multiple doses at shorter time periods). I try to grasp what I can from anecdotal evidence on HBT, but everyone is subjective. And to try all of these techniques would be nearly impossible by one brewer!

Therefore, I'd like to propose a collective "hop experiment":

The Concept:

• 
  10 different brewers will brew one of the 10 experimental hop beers (see below)

• 
  Each brewer sends out three 12oz bottles of their beer to the 9 other brewers (27 bottles sent out in total) and receives 3 bottles of each recipe in return - that's 10 different beers for you to compare.

The Beers:
Time descriptions indicate hop addition times

1. Traditional (control) - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min, DH (1 week) [kaz4121]
2. Continuous - hops added continuously, DH (1 week) [PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]
3. First Wort Hop (FWH) - FWH, 30 min, 0 min, DH (1 week)
4. Mash Hop (MH) - MH, 30 min, 0 min, DH (1 week)
5. Hop Burst (Late Hop) - 30 min, 15 min, 0 min, DH (1 week)
6. Whirlpool - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min whirlpool for 30 min, DH (1 week)
7. Hop Back - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min hopback after flameout, DH (1 week)
8. Double Dry Hop - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min, DH (1/2 for 3 days, 1/2 for 7 days)
9. Short Dry Hop - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min, DH (3 days)
10. Whole Leaf - 60 min, 30 min, 0 min, DH (1 week) (all whole leaf hops)

The Recipe:
Still open to suggestions, but I would recommend the following recipes based on popularity (not sure if everyone can get/has simcoe/amarillo though):

• Yooper's Dogfish Head 60 Minute IPA Clone (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/)
• EdWort's BeeCave Brewery IPA (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bee-cave-brewery-ipa-59907/)
• Eschatz's Bell's Two Hearted Ale Clone (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/bells-two-hearted-ale-clone-close-they-come-91488/)

We would tweak the recipes slightly, but those might serve as good starting points

The Shipping:
Unlike the Christmas Beers thread, I like the idea of one person serving as the "coordinator". Shipping would work like this:

• All participants ship 27 beers and one return label to one person who will serve as the coordinator
• The coordinator receives all the shipments from the other 9 participants
• The coordinator mixes the beers to ensure everyone gets 3 of each of the 9 groups (plus the group they already brewed)
• The coordinator puts the mixes into the original box, and uses the supplied return shipping label to send it back to you
• This will hopefully reduce shipping costs for everyone

Other Notes:

• Ideally those who can temperature control their fermentations are preferred
• The hop-back beer will require someone with a HopRocket or similar product
• Whole Leaf group will require someone who uses whole leaf hops exclusively
• We want to brew and ship them so that they are ready and fresh around the same time

So what do you think? It may seem like a lot for some basic understanding, but following receipt of the beers, each brewer can weigh in and post his tasting notes so we can develop a group consensus on what technique yields the more desirable results. Plus the cost of brewing your batch and shipping the beers will still be less than if you brewed all 10 batches yourself.

I will volunteer for traditional group. I will volunteer to be the coordinator as well since I suggested the experiment!

Any other experimental groups I missed?

Next Steps:

• Find 9 other brewers!
• Pick a simple but delicious recipe
• Determine brewing dates

 

[PasbitinusBluinusRibbinus]

I like this idea. Put me down for continuous.

I can control ferm temps as well.

 

[kaz4121]

Awesome! Got you down. Once we get the other 8 we can then see what people want to do for a recipe.

 

[iloveagent57]

Hi, long-time reader, first-time poster. I like this idea as well. I think it will be difficult to get any particularly conclusive results for these techniques due to having 10 different "experiments" being performed on 10 different systems. I would suggest actually doing this in pairs rather than having 10 different processes going concurrently. This has a couple of benefits - the first is that you'll be isolating a single variable at a time. So, if I want to know, for instance, do two dry hop additions 3 days apart result in different levels of aroma compared to the same amount added once and held for six days, brewer A does the split dry-hop batch and B does the single addition. Ideally, A and B coordinate before hand, swap notes that are as detailed as possible on their process and equipment, keep meticulous notes during the experiment, and then swap beers for comparison.

Take this single pair-wise example and spread it out across the various hop-related techniques you mentioned:
- A and B investigate dual-stage dry-hopping.
- C and D investigate Mash-hopping vs. no mash-hopping
- E and F compare whirlpooling vs. no whirlpool.
- etc.

The key here is to have each pair communicate as much as possible about their process to each, so that, to the best of their ability, they can have all variables other than the one being investigated held constant between their two set-ups. Now that I think about this more, it may complicate things a bit, b/c what you'd essentially be doing is have a whole bunch of controls, rather than one, although that may not necessarily be a bad thing. You might be able to do something like trade around a few different control batches to come up with a "concensus" control (trying to eliminate a single point of failure in case something about the control batch seems weird). Logistically, pairwise coordination and experimentation seems easier (with more easily interpreted results).

For a recipe, simple is certainly best. It would be good to get an idea of people hop storage conditions and hop age to make sure that's accounted for as well.

Anyway, hope this is a helpful suggestion. I'd be up for pairing with someone on this.

 

[kaz4121]

Thanks for the suggestion iloveagent57.

No matter the approach, no two systems are alike. Hence, whether brewer A does the split dry-hop batch and B does the single addition, system variability will still come into play. We cannot eliminate system variability unless all 10 batches were brewed by one brewer (exactly what we are trying to avoid). We can minimize system variability however, in an effort to minimize its effect.

In a perfect world, I would brew all 10 batches but damn that is a lot of time and IPA! Since this is not realistic though, I believe this is the most practical option, albeit less scientific.

The other realistic option might be to have one brewer do a split batch (i.e 2.5 gallons of standard dry hop & 2.5 gallons of multiple dry hop additions) so we can make, say, five comparisons between two variables versus one comparison between ten. Or to have each brewer make a control batch (traditional) and an experimental batch in an effort to examine one variable per brewer.

 

[iloveagent57]

Hey, I think the split batch idea is good, too. Another possibility is to have each person split a batch between the control and whatever technique they are in charge of investigating. This might be the easiest way to eliminate the problem of comparison among many systems, since you'll then have a baseline for each system.

 

[kaz4121]

Let's see what other people weigh in and think too!

I am up for whatever, just trying to think of the logistics. But you are right, we want to come away with the most objective analysis as possible.

 

[aeviaanah]

I'd be down for something like this.

I know this defeats the purpose of a hop experiment but we should all try to brew the same exact beer. This will show how the known and unknown variables affect the finished product.

 

[narl79]

Guys I like the idea and would love to participate but isn't it illegal to ship alcohol without a license? If I wouldn't get in trouble im down as ill be brewing 2-4 times this month. I have temp control and use whole hops quite regularly. The only thing I dont have is a hop back.

 

[kaz4121]

I'd be down for something like this.

I know this defeats the purpose of a hop experiment but we should all try to brew the same exact beer. This will show how the known and unknown variables affect the finished product.

This is kind of along the lines of what iloveagent57 was saying. Each brewer can split their batch 2.5 gallons the traditional (control) method, 2.5 gallons the experiment method. Reviewers can then compare the experimental group to the control instead of trying to compare between all experimental groups.

The only downside to this (more scientific method) is at the end we will only be able to compare the effect of one experimental method to a control (i.e FWH lends a smoother bitterness) instead of comparing the experimental methods to each other (i.e Double Dry Hop > FWH > WH > hopback,etc)

 

[kaz4121]

Guys I like the idea and would love to participate but isn't it illegal to ship alcohol without a license? If I wouldn't get in trouble im down as ill be brewing 2-4 times this month. I have temp control and use whole hops quite regularly. The only thing I dont have is a hop back.

It has been discussed in many other threads (here is one: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/how-do-you-legally-ship-beer-52788/). Basically you want to avoid USPS since shipping beer is illegal through them. UPS/Fed Ex is not illegal, but technically against their policy.

That being said, I've never had an issue with UPS and claiming "glassware" or "live yeast samples" were being shipped.

 

[narl79]

Right on. I got a.2 year old and couldnt afford getting in trouble you know. But I did some research and your right. So im game for this experiment.

 

[narl79]

I like the dogfish head ipa...

 

[ledbed6b]

Count me in, I have full all grain brutus 10 style setup and temp control fermentation. I don't have a hop back but can do any other method. I can also split it into 2 kegs when I do a 10 gallon batch.

Just let me know which recipe!

 

[kaz4121]

For those interested feel free to select whichever technique you'd like and I'll add you to the list.