The GaP (Grocery and Produce) Beer Experiment

[Revvy]

This is pretty darn good preparation for the coming zombiepocalypse....

I still maintain that he who can make some form of potable beverage, after the water system collapses, will be the leader of masses (and get all the nubile chicks.)

We'll know what stuff we need to grab when we're raiding walmart.

 

[Arneba28]

This will most likely turn into some kind of horrible jailhouse/post-apocolyptical, brewed in dark basements and bomb shelters kinda drink. But just like revvy said we will be the only ones with alcohol when the civilized world crashes to an end!!!!!

 

[Revvy]

We'll be the snake oil salesmen of the new milenia!!!

We'll go from town to town in our horsedrawn hummers, trading our "magic barley water" for bags of rice and nubile women.

I've even got my label/sign made up

 

[Freezeblade]

This will most likely turn into some kind of horrible jailhouse/post-apocolyptical, brewed in dark basements and bomb shelters kinda drink. But just like revvy said we will be the only ones with alcohol when the civilized world crashes to an end!!!!!

I don't konw, besides the yeast problems, I think that some of these could turn out quite good, different most definatly, depending on the process and ingrediants used. can't be any stranger than "Mountain Brew" http://byo.com/recipe/1331.html

 

[Arneba28]

lol "Cures lack of sexual prowess and wooing of the opposite sex" Perfect@!!!!!!!!!

 

[Arneba28]

We could all do this!!!!


Originally Posted by RICLARK
put 2 loafs of bread into a trashbag with 2 gallons of water let sit three monthes and then add it to your wort.

 

[Tenchiro]

I was considering using natural ginger beer (non-alcoholic) as the base fermentable. I also found a couple of brands of malt soda, some are even hopped. It was also suggested that bitters can be used from the mixer section of the supermarket.

 

[Freezeblade]

For wild fruit yeasts head to the organic section and grab some peaches or grapes, don't wash them, put them in some sugar water with breathable cloth on the top in a jar, store in warm place, and wahla! starter! http://windintheroses.googlepages.com/wildyeast

 

[McKBrew]

I have been thinking about this thread all morning when I should be thinking about something else. The issue of the yeast concerns me the most, but keep in mind that bread yeast and top fermenting ale yeast are the same species but prepared differently. Even though, I'm still not sure I'm willing to ferment with bread yeast, so I'm leaning toward the cultivate from a bottle idea. I can see the potential here to make a suprisingly drinkable beer. Hell, if ancient civilizations could make beer that was drinkable (and apparently good to them) the only real thing standing in our way is re-defining "drinkable".

I'm thinking of doing no more than a 2-gallon batch just because this sounds like a hell of alot of fun, and might be a good skill to have in case of an apocalypse.

 

[McKBrew]

Here is a link for ways to culture wild yeast. Any one want to give the last one (Other options) a go?


Edit: Other links

http://ourworld.cs.com/omsapphire/beer/wildyeast.html
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Real-Food/1980-09-01/Foraging-For-Wild-Yeast.aspx

 

[Redweasel]

Here is a link for ways to culture wild yeast. Any one want to give the last one (Other options) a go?

Other sources
You probably don't need to the know this, but in the interest of
intellectual honesty, you can also get yeast cultures from moldy hay,
bird droppings, feathers, insects and soil

Flashbacks of craigtube. "shudders"

 

[Brew-Happy]

Been reading this and it sounds like fun.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting malting popcorn kernels yet. Not much sugar but they do germinate well. (Not the bagged microwave type of course). This could help provide some enzymes. Maybe malt them then toast them bit for roasted flavor?

Apparently, old civilizations brewed potatoes (sweet or otherwise) and helped the process by spitting in the mash. :cross: Provided the alpha amylase enzyme, but they had no clue. Any takers??

 

[Freezeblade]

Been reading this and it sounds like fun.

I haven't seen anyone suggesting malting popcorn kernels yet. Not much sugar but they do germinate well. (Not the bagged microwave type of course). This could help provide some enzymes. Maybe malt them then toast them bit for roasted flavor?

This is exactly what I had planned, but more of the ornamental corn that's still on the cob, for some more flavor, and perhaps some homany.

 

[Bob]

In re: Malta Goya. The Malta Goya available in the Mid-Atlantic and Northeast states is, to the best of my knowledge, brewed at The Lion Brewery in Wilkes-Barre, PA. I know for a fact they were brewing it in 2004, for I saw them bottling it.

A little bird in the brewhouse told me that, if I wanted to know what it tasted like fermented, I should drink a Stegmaier Porter. If I wanted to taste the unfermented Porter wort after it had been carbonated, I should grab a bottle of Malta off the line.

Shh! Don't tell anyone!

I'm getting in on this concept. I'm due to brew something anyhow. GrapeNuts. That's what I'm doing: GrapeNuts.

After all, GrapeNuts is a Hefeweizen mash, in that it's 50/50% barley/wheat. Hm. Just soak it like the Sumerians did with their liquid ode to Ninkasi and get some yeast in there. Hmmmmmm.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[EvilTOJ]

The Sumerians had grapenuts?

 

[dirtymike1]

I have a question about using honey for fermentable sugar, what are the chances of botchulism?? It there any way to prevent it? My SWMBO was warning me baout htis last night, is there still a chance of it occuring even in pasterized honey?

 

[Revvy]

I have a question about using honey for fermentable sugar, what are the chances of botchulism?? It there any way to prevent it? My SWMBO was warning me baout htis last night, is there still a chance of it occuring even in pasterized honey?

I could be wrong, but I was under the impression that nothing could live in honey, pasturized or otherwise, including botulism...

That is the rational a lot of folk medicine types use to justify taking unpasturized honey for stuff. (I even had a doctor friend who swore by it...I think it was he who first told me nothing bad could live in honey.)

I heard the same thing from a mead make the other day, who doestn't even pasturize his mead...

 

[dirtymike1]

http://diseases.emedtv.com/infant-botulism/botulism-in-honey.html

From the way I read it, botulism is in honey, about 10 % from the article, but humans over the age of 1 can handle the minumal amount.

 

[Edcculus]

This sounds like it could be pretty cool. I couldnt tell, but do the rules specify that you can't culture yeast from beer you buy at the store? My grocery store sells Rogue, Sierra Nevada and some random Hefes, all of which are unfiltered. I was also thinking you could collect yeast in a similar manner as you would to make sourdough bread...maybe a sour beer?

Quote from wikipedia on sourdough:

Biology and chemistry of sourdough

Two loaves of naturally-leavened (sourdough) bread.A sourdough starter is a stable symbiotic culture of bacteria and yeast present in a mixture of flour and water. The yeasts Candida milleri or Saccharomyces exiguus usually populate sourdough cultures symbiotically with Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis.[1]. Lactobacillus sanfranciscensis (bacteria) was named for its discovery in San Francisco sourdough starters.

Often a starter will consist of basic items such as: water, bread flour, rye flour and a sourdough starter which can be purchased at certain grocery stores. Once the starter is made water and flour must be added in time increments over a period of days. Depending on the locale of the bakery and the type of bread being made, the starter can be either a relatively fluid batter or a stiffer dough; as a general rule, the more sour breads are made with a liquid starter. Firm starters (such as the Flemish Desem starter) are often more resource-intensive, traditionally being buried in a large container of flour to prevent drying out.

A fresh culture begins with a mixture of flour and water. Fresh flour naturally contains a wide variety of yeast and bacteria spores. When wheat flour contacts water, naturally-occurring amylase enzymes break down the starch into complex sugars (sucrose and maltose); maltase converts the sugars into glucose and fructose that yeast can metabolize. The lactobacteria feed mostly on the metabolism products from the yeast. [1] The mixture develops a balanced, symbiotic culture after repeated feedings.

There are several ways to increase the chances of creating a stable culture. Unbleached, unbromated flour contains more microorganisms than more processed flours. Bran-containing (wholemeal) flour provides the greatest variety of organisms and additional minerals, though some cultures use an initial mixture of white flour and rye flour or "seed" the culture using unwashed organic grapes (for the wild yeasts on their skins). Using water from boiled potatoes also increases the leavening power of the bacteria, by providing additional starch. Bakers recommend un-chlorinated water for feeding cultures. Adding a small quantity of diastatic malt provides maltase and simple sugars to support the yeasts initially.[2]

The flour-water mixture can also be inoculated from a previously kept culture. The culture is stable due to its ability to prevent colonization by other yeasts and bacteria as a result of its acidity and other anti-bacterial agents. As a result, many sourdough bread varieties tend to be relatively resistant to spoilage and mold.

 

[menschmaschine]

http://diseases.emedtv.com/infant-botulism/botulism-in-honey.html

From the way I read it, botulism is in honey, about 10 % from the article, but humans over the age of 1 can handle the minumal amount.

Warning: Geek info ahead from my microbiology days...

The bacterium Clostridium botulinum is a spore forming bacterium, meaning it can survive in a dormant state in conditions not suitable to growth for a long time. There are two types of disease acquired by humans from this bacterium: infection and intoxication. You hear about "infant botulism"... that's an infection. This means the bacteria are actually feeding on and reproducing in the body. It can be caused be eating raw honey or even being exposed to soil dusts (construction, farming). Healthy adults can easily resist an infection by this bacterium. Foods high in sugar or fats have a lower moisture content and don't support the growth of bacteria. Honey, jambs, jellies, etc fall into this category. But if the honey has C. botulinum spores in it (dormant), they can infect the human body (infants).

Intoxication from C. botulinum is when an individual gets sick from a toxin already produced by the bacteria, not from the bacteria itself. Production of this toxin requires conditions suitable for growth for the bacteria. The infamous "swelled cans" are a sign of C. botulinum growth.

Pasteurization doesn't kill C. botulinum spores, but a healthy adult won't get sick from it and it won't hurt to brew with it since fermented beverages aren't suitable for growth of the bacterium either. Just don't put it in your infant's bottle.:cross:

 

[Arneba28]

Yes you can culture from a bottle from the store

 

[Freezeblade]

Ok, so strolling through my local grocery store and I decided to see what was there, I wasn't at my usual one, so I was a bit unfamiliar with the possible beer-making supplies this particular Albersons had to offer, and I learned a few things, first of all, there is a $hit selection of beers, and there was only 2 live-sediment beers in the extensive beer/wine/liquor section, Hoegaarden Wit (which is apparently Wyeast 3944 Belgian White) and Chimey (apparently Wyeast 1214 Belgian Abbey). So I devised the following one-gallon recipe from what was there:

Ingredients:
1lb 8 oz grape nuts cereal (one box)
4 oz "instant" couscous
4 oz rolled oats [oatmeal]
? oz Sugar (to get the OG to about 1.050)
1/8 tsp corrander
1/4 tsp orange peel
1/2 tsp wormwood (or other bitter herb, to taste)
1 capsule beano
(Starter from a hoegaarden wit)

Method:
grind up the package of grapenuts (which is 50/50 wheat/barley roughly) using whatever method, to the constancy you'd normally have malt. Put grape-nut grinds, oatmeal and couscous into water and "mash" at 150F with beano tablet added for 40 mins (or untill starch conversion is done) Add herbs and spices at flameout, and sparge like normal. Boil for 60 mins, add sugar to get to desired OG. Wait untill blood warm, pitch yeast, etc.

This is loosely based off of a Hoegaarden clone, kinda a ghetto, psuto-probation Belgian wit beer, for full probation effect, use bread yeast. I shall be starting this one as soon as my Hoegaarden starter is done.


Comments? thoughts?

 

[Arneba28]

Very cool. I like the recipe. Be careful with the couscous, beware of stuck sparge.

 

[clemson55]

This sounds really cool, unfortunately I havent stepped past extract yet so I dont think I could tackle it. I would like to hear how these brews turn out though.

 

[NWernBrewer]

IMHO using Goya and bottle-cultured yeast seems to take a bit of the challenge out. But I guess post-apocolyptical brewing is different than stone age/bronze age brewing.

I think I am in for a gallon for experimentation - but will try to use only non-perishable food items, raw produce and naturally occuring yeasts... things that would be found around the neighborhood and not rotting in a grocery store. I'll think up a recipe and post.

Maybe using fresh off the tree apples for some fermentables and yeast - and I will look into canned goods, somebody mentioned hominy.

 

[Freezeblade]

IMHO using Goya and bottle-cultured yeast seems to take a bit of the challenge out. But I guess post-apocolyptical brewing is different than stone age/bronze age brewing.

Yeah, I was going to go a different route, but wild yeasts are really fickle and I'd probably get more bacteria and other air-borne stuff around here (downtown in the city). I rationalized it for post-apocalyptic brewing because yeast is alive in beer for 6 months, and I'd think if you were brewing in such conditions you would have grabbed yeast when you still could, and keep a stockpile of whatever you could get your hands on, by means of starters and yeast cakes.

 

[NWernBrewer]

I rationalized it for post-apocalyptic brewing because yeast is alive in beer for 6 months, and I'd think if you were brewing in such conditions you would have grabbed yeast when you still could, and keep a stockpile of whatever you could get your hands on, by means of starters and yeast cakes.

That is a good rationalization... but I think I still want to play with the wild stuff since I am not making a lot of this stuff. If it's bad, I'll choke down what I can and toss the rest, we are talking only a gallon.

 

[Revvy]

Yeah, I was going to go a different route, but wild yeasts are really fickle and I'd probably get more bacteria and other air-borne stuff around here (downtown in the city). I rationalized it for post-apocalyptic brewing because yeast is alive in beer for 6 months, and I'd think if you were brewing in such conditions you would have grabbed yeast when you still could, and keep a stockpile of whatever you could get your hands on, by means of starters and yeast cakes.

Plus you can keep harvesting from your batches until that yeast strain becomes too mutated.

 

[Bob]

Plus you can keep harvesting from your batches until that yeast strain becomes too mutated.

Mutated...

like ZOMBIES!?

Seriously, now.

I admit I haven't been following the thread that closely, but has anyone considered cider or cyser? (It's probably in the GaP Roolz somewhere and I missed it.)

Even after the apocalypse, the apple and other fruit orchards will be producing wild, and harvesting the honey from surviving hives is relatively easy. Our Colonial forebears often fermented cider with the microflora resident on the fruit. No reason why we couldn't do the same in our mountain retreats.

Cheers,

Bob

 

[Revvy]

I admit I haven't been following the thread that closely, but has anyone considered cider or cyser? (It's probably in the GaP Roolz somewhere and I missed it.)

Even after the apocalypse, the apple and other fruit orchards will be producing wild, and harvesting the honey from surviving hives is relatively easy. Our Colonial forebears often fermented cider with the microflora resident on the fruit. No reason why we couldn't do the same in our mountain retreats.

Cheers,

Bob

Yeah we've considered fruit...the challenge is to make something beerlike...