"Technical" or Non-Food Grade Phosphoric Acid

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Can one use Technical Grade Phosphoric acid for homebrewing without major adverse health effects given the small amounts used for adjusting mash PH and the subsequent vigorous boiling??

I know food grade is ideal but locally I can only find technical grade.

Many thanks.

 

[ajdelange]

Technical Grade means it's got other stuff in it. Food grade may also mean it has other stuff in it but the other stuff is guaranteed to be harmless. Food grade also means the material has been processed and packaged using equipment and packaging that is approved for foods.

You might very well get away with using technical grade phosphoric acid but then again you might not. I would certainly be a fool to recommend it. The only thing I use technical grade acid for in my brewery is CIP.

You should certainly have no trouble finding food grade phosphoric acid as so much of it is produced for use in phosphates (sodas), e.g. http://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=FGphos&gclid=COuv37yzhsACFbFDMgodMVMAFg or http://www.amazon.com/dp/B009G9D0IA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20. Many home brew suppliers sell it too.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Thanks for the response, AJ. I'll just have to try harder to find the food-grade stuff.

One more question, please. Is phosphoric acid your go-to acid for mash ph control? I'm reading virtually all the other acids can easily impact flavor.

 

[poptarts]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/950-ml-of-8...039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35b246b917
Life time supply for me

 

[ajdelange]

One more question, please. Is phosphoric acid your go-to acid for mash ph control? I'm reading virtually all the other acids can easily impact flavor.

For me personally, no. I do mostly German/Bohemian style lagers and ales and for them the traditional acid is lactic in the form of sauergut or sauermalz. I use the latter 1) because it is traditional 2)because it is so easy to handle/measure out 3) because it imparts desirable flavor notes to those styles of beer.

IOW for those beers the flavor impact is a plus.

In British brewing hydrochloric and sulfuric acids are the standards. As many of those beers are doctored to contain specified levels of sulfate and chloride these two acids are obvious choices if your need for protons happens to line up with your needs for sulfate or chloride. They are harder to get in food grade in the US but in the UK a blend is sold specifically for brewers.

In general is phosphoric acid the 'go to' acid for mash pH control? It probably is because of its flavor neutral and ready availability.

 

[flars]

Should be in other home brew shops also.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/phosphoric-acid-8-oz-10-solution.html

 

[mabrungard]

While Food-Grade acid should always be used in brewing, all forms of acid may not be readily available in that designation. As AJ mentioned, Technical Grade is NOT remotely suitable for brewing or any other food or beverage production. There could be all kinds of contaminants in it. Most likely, heavy metals.

As a second best alternative to Food Grade, acids that are Reagent Grade can be sourced for brewing usage.

 

[ajdelange]

FCC grade and Reagent Grade may be of the same purity but Reagent Grade does not meet the FCC requirement that it be prepared in a facility certified for food production via FDA inspection. Thus it has as much to do with whether there is peanut residue in it as it does with its arsenic content. Speaking of which when I looked into this a long time back I found that FCC lye has as much arsenic in it as ACS (Reagent grade) lye from at least one manufacturer.

So Reagent Grade, or even spectrographic grade (is there such a thing as spectrographic grade phosphoric acid?) are not suitable for use in food products like beer. Of course a soft drinks manufacturer would have to be out of his mind to use ACS grade for his sodas when FCC grade is available at much less cost.

 

[AlCophile]

You might consider tartaric acid, available in HBSs in food-grade from Crosby & Baker.. It's naturally occurring in wine as the potassium salt, I believe. Dirt cheap. It is a strong organic acid, odorless. I use it to lower the pH of hop-isomerization solutions. Let's see....3.5 ml of 500mg/50ml stock soln. per gallon of water containing the equivalent of 10g pellet hops. Gets so bitter you can't speak after a taste. If your pH gets too low, make a solution of potassium percarbonate (OneStep? Food grade!!! Allow it to decompose o.n.) of same molarity and jack the pH up to where you like it. Take an intro chem course.

 

[ajdelange]

You might consider tartaric acid, available in HBSs in food-grade from Crosby & Baker..

Also available in food grade at lhbs's are citric and lactic acids also quite suitable from the pH reducing point of view but like tartaric they all have noticeable flavors. The only one generally considered acceptable in brewing is lactic as it is the only acid that can be added under biersteuergestz and is thus a common component of German beers (though home brewers did use citric from time to time about 30 years ago). The reason one wants to use phosphoric acid is because it is so flavor neutral. Citric, lactic and tartaric don't meet that description.

I use it to lower the pH of hop-isomerization solutions. Let's see....3.5 ml of 500mg/50ml stock soln. per gallon of water containing the equivalent of 10g pellet hops. Gets so bitter you can't speak after a taste.

It's pretty well known that higher pH improves isomerization of hop bittering acids and low pH degrades it so I'm confused here.

If your pH gets too low, make a solution of potassium percarbonate (OneStep? Food grade!!! Allow it to decompose o.n.) of same molarity and jack the pH up to where you like it. Take an intro chem course.

I did take an intro chem course but it was 50 yrs ago so you are going to have to bring me up to date on this one. Why in heavens name would you advise the guy to use an oxidizing agent to raise pH? Percarbonates are adducts of carbonates and hydrogen peroxide usually used as cleaners/sanitizers. If you wait long enough they'll decompose into the basic carbonates but why not use the carbonate salt directly? Sodium carbonate is available from people who sell water treatment equipment and of course the bicarbonate at any pharmacy. Hydrated lime is another fine base for upward pH adjustment and is available in most supermarkets or at water treatment suppliers.

 

[And1129]

I had the same concerns about some of the acids I had available for use in beer. I have quite the science lab in my garage, but most of the acids I had were of technical or questionable grade, so I was hesitant to use even greatly diluted amounts of these acids in brewing. I had been using the small amount of dilute food grade phosphoric I was able to buy, but I don't really like using that because I don't know what effect it may have on my carefully adjusted calcium levels, and at the concentration I was buying it at, I was paying mostly for water anyways. I've also had a lot of success with using easily available food grade citric acid, and I really like using that acid, but I can't use it in every beer as the taste threshold can be high (it was a perfect choice for the sour beer i just brewed!).

Now i've really upgraded my acid strategy and supplies. I've "requisitioned" some high purity (>reagent grade) concentrated hydrochloric and sulfuric acids from my lab where we use them for ICP-MS analysis. From these relatively small amounts of concentrated acids, I will be able to make large volumes of dilute stock solutions of each that I can use to adjust pH levels and add either sulfate or chloride depending on beer style. These acids are so pure that I have no hesitation or question about any impurities being any kind of problem in any of my beers. Love me some acids...

 

[ajdelange]

I had been using the small amount of dilute food grade phosphoric I was able to buy, but I don't really like using that because I don't know what effect it may have on my carefully adjusted calcium levels

This is not something you need worry about at mash pH unless the hardness of your water, as adjusted, is insane. There are some curves in the back of Palmer's book that will put numbers to this statement.

I've also had a lot of success with using easily available food grade citric acid, and I really like using that acid, but I can't use it in every beer as the taste threshold can be high (it was a perfect choice for the sour beer i just brewed!).

Interesting. As I noted in an earlier post the use of citric acid was quite common in the infancy of home brewing but I haven't head of anyone actually using it since the days of Bravery's Best Stout.

 

[And1129]

Citric is a great acid to use. It's a solid, it's food grade, cheap, good potency, not as dangerous as other acids. I used to use it a lot back in the days when i was less meticulous and measured in tablespoons rather than grams and a few of my beers tasted of citric acid sourness, so I stopped using it altogether apart from an occasional sour beer. These days I know more and measure much better, so I could probably get away with using it more often if i wanted, but IMHO and for my purposes, sulfuric is just such a better acid for brewing in so many ways that now i hardly use anything else.

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

I'm reading that lemon juice is effectively ~5% citric acid. So perhaps for my next recipe that calls for a tiny bit of lime sourness (eg my Hoegaarden clone) I'll give lemon juice a bash for ph control!

 

[And1129]

I actually used straight lemon juice in a beer a few batches ago. The only reason I did was that I was brewing a 100% organic beer, so really had to improvise. The problem with lemon juice is that each lemon will have a slightly different amount of juice and at a different concentration of citric acid. I measured a pH of about 2.1 for the lemon juice I squeezed. I also had to add a fair amount of juice and had to check the pH every 10 minutes of the mash which sucked. Not an ideal solution, but it can work...

 

[Tippsy-Turvy]

Great observations, thanks.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

For me personally, no. I do mostly German/Bohemian style lagers and ales and for them the traditional acid is lactic in the form of sauergut or sauermalz. I use the latter 1) because it is traditional 2)because it is so easy to handle/measure out 3) because it imparts desirable flavor notes to those styles of beer.

IOW for those beers the flavor impact is a plus.

In British brewing hydrochloric and sulfuric acids are the standards. As many of those beers are doctored to contain specified levels of sulfate and chloride these two acids are obvious choices if your need for protons happens to line up with your needs for sulfate or chloride. They are harder to get in food grade in the US but in the UK a blend is sold specifically for brewers.

In general is phosphoric acid the 'go to' acid for mash pH control? It probably is because of its flavor neutral and ready availability.

This is old, but I'm really intrigued by what a new member, British, is suggesting re: these acids. Digging, but like millions, probably, having a hard time finding food-grade hydrochloric and/or sulfuric to use in my brewing. I had spaced that one adjustment scheme I made using John Palmer's calculator gives me good water for bitters, with a sulfate:cl of 2.8. Given my crappy water, that's not bad.

AJ or anyone, do you happen to know where these can be obtained?

 

[z-bob]

This is old, but I'm really intrigued by what a new member, British, is suggesting re: these acids. Digging, but like millions, probably, having a hard time finding food-grade hydrochloric and/or sulfuric to use in my brewing. I had spaced that one adjustment scheme I made using John Palmer's calculator gives me good water for bitters, with a sulfate:cl of 2.8. Given my crappy water, that's not bad.

AJ or anyone, do you happen to know where these can be obtained?

I haven't bought any yet because I'm still experimenting with lactic acid:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B009J3KDCE/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Thanks Bob!

 

[z-bob]

Amazon also has 85% phosphoric acid for about $25 per liter or $50 per gallon.

 

[Gadjobrinus]

Also came across this.