Tart of Darkness

[Tomcat0304]

I'll have to see what sours I can find with viable bugs in them. On hand, I have a Duchesse, a Rodenbach Grand Cru, a Cuvée de Jacobinus, and New Belgium La Folie; but the little bit of research I have done says they don't have viable bugs.

For additional food for the bugs, I have 4 oz of Maltodextrin on hand, and your other recommendations, but I'm not sure how, or how much to add any, of it.


Magical creature
Eats sugars, poops alcohol
So I may drink beer

 

[jmcm_brew]

Bottling my TOD tonight


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[Cadrian]

Hopefully I didnt just screw up my beer, but I through in the bourbon chunks I steamed now at 6 months it was 2oz of them. Afterwards I realized they were chunks not cubes, I always read chunks will give huge tannins if left on the beer for over 2 weeks.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Where did you read that?


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[skeezerpleezer]

^^^Chips have more surface area in contact with the beer than the same weight in cubes.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Chunks are another story entirely.... I would think chunks that have no bark have less surface area that a comparable weight of cubes and WAY less than a comparable weight of chips.

I contemplate this as I sip a 2013 bottle of the authentic ToD.... Wow - the lactic sour kick is high on this compared to Rodenbach Grand Cru and way higher than Jolly Pumpkin La Roja. Right up there with Oude Tart (my favorite) just in stout form!!!

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Slice a cube into multiple pieces. Each time you cut it, there is more surface area exposed with the same amount of wood.

Edit: I assume the poster above is referring to chips when he says chunks.

 

[FredTheNuke]

Edit: I assume the poster above is referring to chips when he says chunks.

Negative. Chips are essentially shavings. cubes are; well; cubes. chunks are literally chunks of a whole log of oak (look into barbequing - you can buy a smoker that uses whole wood, chunks, chips, pellets or shavings - each is different in size).

THESE are oak chunks:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H6V9EQM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[skeezerpleezer]

I know what oak chunks are. May be hard to measure out 2oz of them though.

I was referring to Cadrian saying he used chunks, and assumed he meant chips, which are usually what is sold in brewing supply stores, along with cubes. I have never seen chunks in a brewing supply store. I guess you confirmed he meant chunks instead chips. If so, I will not disagree, smoking chunks have less surface area than cubes.

 

[FredTheNuke]

measuring 2 oz is easy with oak chunks. I do it all the time for my Cook Shack smoker (2 to 4 oz of wood chunks per boston butt or 3-4 racks of ribs and sometimes 2-3 4lb chickens).

 

[skeezerpleezer]

Negative. Chips are essentially shavings. cubes are; well; cubes. chunks are literally chunks of a whole log of oak (look into barbequing - you can buy a smoker that uses whole wood, chunks, chips, pellets or shavings - each is different in size).



THESE are oak chunks:



http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00H6V9EQM/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

BTW. What is negative? I said I assumed the OP meant chips instead of chunks. Am I wrong in knowing what my own assumptions were? I did not say the assumption was fact. But based on normal wood offered at brew supply stores and the fact he said he heard "chunks" leave more tannins than cubes, it didn't seem like a bad assumption that he meant chips instead of chunks. I clearly said chips have more surface area, trying to offer some decent feedback on why they were different. I don't recall saying chunks had higher surface area.

 

[mors]

BTW. What is negative? I said I assumed the OP meant chips instead of chunks. Am I wrong in knowing what my own assumptions were? I did not say the assumption was fact. But based on normal wood offered at brew supply stores and the fact he said he heard "chunks" leave more tannins than cubes, it didn't seem like a bad assumption that he meant chips instead of chunks. I clearly said chips have more surface area, trying to offer some decent feedback on why they were different. I don't recall saying chunks had higher surface area.

I think he meant negative as in 'no, your assumption is wrong' since he thought you were referring to his post as it was directly above yours...

Negative = no

 

[jmcm_brew]

Heath did you end up bottling yet.. Waiting for mine to condition a bit if you want to swap when yours is ready


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[skeezerpleezer]

Mine just passed 20months since brewing. It's been on oak about 6-8 mo. Used ECY20 (Bug County). It's ready to bottle, just need some motivation.

 

[jmcm_brew]

Mine just passed 20months since brewing. It's been on oak about 6-8 mo. Used ECY20 (Bug County). It's ready to bottle, just need some motivation.

Damn!


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[Cadrian]

Chunks are another story entirely.... I would think chunks that have no bark have less surface area that a comparable weight of cubes and WAY less than a comparable weight of chips.

I contemplate this as I sip a 2013 bottle of the authentic ToD.... Wow - the lactic sour kick is high on this compared to Rodenbach Grand Cru and way higher than Jolly Pumpkin La Roja. Right up there with Oude Tart (my favorite) just in stout form!!!

So my 5 gallons can sit on these chunks http://morebeer.com/products/bourbon-oak-cubes-2-oz.html for another 5 months and probably be ok?

sorry for late reply other laptop crashed

 

[jmcm_brew]

Mine sat on those chunks for
4 months and I'm liking the amount of oak I'm getting


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[MollyHatchet]

I was thinking of putting my TOD on bourbon soaked chips for four to six months. I enjoy the bourbon oak flavor.


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[FredTheNuke]

Mine sat on those chunks for
4 months and I'm liking the amount of oak I'm getting


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Mine will be on oak for a year. My oak prep and amount is key. You must boil new oak cubes for 5-10 minutes which removes a lot of the new oak power (to simulate a used barrel). Hen soak in bourbon for 6 months. Add to ToD at rate of .15 oz by weight per gallon (per American Sours book). I went a tad strong on my addition.


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[FredTheNuke]

Mine will be on oak for a year. My oak prep and amount is key. You must boil new oak cubes for 5-10 minutes which removes a lot of the new oak power (to simulate a used barrel). Hen soak in bourbon for 6 months. Add to ToD at rate of .15 oz by weight per gallon (per American Sours book). I went a tad strong on my addition at 1.5 oz in 5 gallons (boiled 10 mins and soaked in bourbon for 6 months using medium plus toast american oak cubes).


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[jmcm_brew]

Mine will be on oak for a year. My oak prep and amount is key. You must boil new oak cubes for 5-10 minutes which removes a lot of the new oak power (to simulate a used barrel). Hen soak in bourbon for 6 months. Add to ToD at rate of .15 oz by weight per gallon (per American Sours book). I went a tad strong on my addition at 1.5 oz in 5 gallons (boiled 10 mins and soaked in bourbon for 6 months using medium plus toast american oak cubes).


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The oak I used and the link above were chunks from a bourbon barrel so no need to boil and soak in bourbon.. Opening the package and smelling smelled like I put my nose in a bottle of bourbon





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[MollyHatchet]

I bought this bottle back in January while I was in New Jersey. I started my clone of this on 7/22/14, and it bubbling along nicely. I really I joy this, but was surprised the body and mouth feel was a little thin. I also tossed the dregs into my batch, visually it didn't seem to have an impact on the fermentation. Still an enjoyable drink, and hope mine is somewhere in the same ball park.


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[skeezerpleezer]

If you just brewed it 7/22/14 I wouldn't expect much change from adding dregs--or much souring from the original yeast/bacteria for that matter.

 

[dyqik]

Right, I'm about to brew this, using the morebeer kit. From this thread, I'm going with mashing at 158F for 60 minutes, mashout, fly sparge, 60 minute boil then into a carboy with a smack pack of Roselaere for what will seem like ages...

EDIT: So, the Morebeer kit is showing much lower efficiency on my system than usual - I think I've seen similar comments on Morebeer's kits giving low efficiency elsewhere. The kit says it is calculated for 75% mash efficiency - I usually hit 75% brewhouse efficiency and 82-84% mash efficiency using the mill at my LHBS (although this is only my second RIMS brew). I think I got 68% brewhouse efficiency for this kit.

Brewed 05/17/2014

Tried a sample today and took a gravity reading. Around 1.015 (didn't degas the sample properly). Taste is just roasty enough, starting to sour, but nowhere near the sourness of the original beer. Obviously no oak yet. At this point it could be an acceptable bretty sweet stout, if it had a decent carb level, but it's not really sharp or funky yet. Got the rest of the gravity sample in the fridge for tasting later.

This has been sitting in a carboy in a milk crate on my basement floor, covered in a black trash bag to keep the light off. Basement temperatures have been a consistent 68-71F, with the cool summer. No pellicle that I can see, but the krausen did leave a lot of debris on the carboy (and get into the airlock), so I can't see the top of the beer easily.

 

[MollyHatchet]

If you just brewed it 7/22/14 I wouldn't expect much change from adding dregs--or much souring from the original yeast/bacteria for that matter.

Kind of what I was thinking, and did see ANY difference what so ever. Since it started there has a been a Krausen rise and fall about three times.


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[bnairuni87]

I was blown away with the original ToD I had this weekend and just finished reading Tonsmeire's American Sour Beers.

My used 5 gallon bourbon barrel arrived and I am going to age a porter in the barrel for a few weeks and then put in my ToD clone. I have a question:

1. Anyone completed the full cycle in an oak barrel?

Since it is going to sit for at least a year, I am concerned the oak/bourbon maybe too strong.

Thanks in advance.

Brent

 

[smokinghole]

I don't have a TOD clone going but I do have a higher abv bigger body brewed beer going with ECY02 in a 15 gal barrel. My barrel is waxed except one head and I've had this 1.092 gravity beer sitting for a year now. When I received this barrel I gave it a couple solid rinses to get much of the overwhelming spirit character out. Then I let two bottles worth of rum soak/evaporate in it in a hot attic. I then filled it again with hot water and plopped a 1.120 RIS in it for six months or so. Then I rinsed it and added this current high gravity black sour thing (low IBU RIS?) it's been in the barrel for a full year at this point. The oak is not noticeable is you ask me. Then again I got most of the char/spirit character out already giving me a fairly neutral barrel for these very full flavored dark beers.

You might want to age your porter until it has whatever character you want, then give it two good hot boiling rinses. I left each hot rinse sit for at least a couple hours. If you want more bourbon flavor just add some bourbon when you bottle it, that's how I look at it at least. I feel the bourbon is way to prominent in so many BBA beers. If I wanted that much bourbon flavor in my stout or barley wine I'd just dump bourbon in my glass.

 

[sweetcell]

Since it is going to sit for at least a year, I am concerned the oak/bourbon maybe too strong.

+1 to everything smokinghole said. a year in a 5 gallon (AKA small) barrel is probably too long unless you wax it. that's a lot of oxygen intake.

 

[bnairuni87]

Thanks everyone. How many of you added sour cherries to ferment and has anyone added a sour cherry liquid concentrate?

 

[smokinghole]

I thought about adding some to a 5gal portion of what I have in my barrel now. I have some whole frozen cherries from last year. The local orchard's sour cherry crop this year was wrecked by the weird spring weather we had in PA.