Tart finish

[jjsemperfi]

Hi guys, just brewed my second Octoberfest. My first batch was delicious, my second batch has a tart finish. I'm thinking my problem may have been my incomplete straining of my hops. The gentleman at the local brew store told me that I could just perform a simple strain and then siphon off into primary fermentation. My first batch I used cheese cloth and got as much of the hops out as possible. So this next batch had tons of hops sediment left over that the beer fermented with and then went into secondary with. Could this leave a tart finish to the beer? Thanks!

 

[jekeane]

Ive not brewed an Octoberfest yet. However, I also have never put much emphasis on straining out hop residue and havent had any noticeable tartness.

 

[brewkinger]

Hi guys, just brewed my second Octoberfest. My first batch was delicious, my second batch has a tart finish. I'm thinking my problem may have been my incomplete straining of my hops. The gentleman at the local brew store told me that I could just perform a simple strain and then siphon off into primary fermentation. My first batch I used cheese cloth and got as much of the hops out as possible. So this next batch had tons of hops sediment left over that the beer fermented with and then went into secondary with. Could this leave a tart finish to the beer? Thanks!

How long has it been conditioning?

What was the recipe?
Hop types?
Mash temps?

I still think it might just be conditioning.

The lack of straining would almost be the "last" place I would look at perceived taste/finish.


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[Yooper]

It's NOT the hops!

It could be several things, but the things that jump out at me are yeast related issues. The first is pitching the yeast or fermenting at a too-warm temperature, especially with a lager yeast. Is that a possibility?

 

[jjsemperfi]

4.5 lbs Briess Wheat Malt Extract
1 Lb Wheat Malt
.5 lbs Munich Malt
2 oz Crystal Malt (20 Lovibond)
1 oz Cascade Hop
2 oz Saaz Hop
2 packages Saflager W-34/70 Yeast

Primary at 50 degrees F in basement. OG was 1.060. Final Grav was 1.016
Skipped secondary and bottled 7 days later and conditioned for 14 days at 50 degrees F.

 

[Yooper]

4.5 lbs Briess Wheat Malt Extract
1 Lb Wheat Malt
.5 lbs Munich Malt
2 oz Crystal Malt (20 Lovibond)
1 oz Cascade Hop
2 oz Saaz Hop
2 packages Saflager W-34/70 Yeast

Primary at 50 degrees F in basement. OG was 1.060. Final Grav was 1.016
Skipped secondary and bottled 7 days later and conditioned for 14 days at 50 degrees F.

That's quite a bit of wheat, since I think Briess wheat extract is about 35% wheat.

My oktoberfest has 0 wheat, as is traditional, but I've noticed that one of the reasons I hate wheat beers is a sort of "lemon" tartness I pick up from the wheat. Could that be the flavor you're getting in this beer?

 

[brewkinger]

So if I understand.. This beer is only 3 weeks since brewday?

The beer is still green.
Give it some time to "mellow"




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[jjsemperfi]

I pitched on 3/2/14, so a little over 3 weeks yes. My first batch was pitched on 11/10 and drank about 11/30 and it was absolutely delicious. I know longer is better, but a month seems pretty darn long to me. I'll give it another week and check on it.

 

[jjsemperfi]

That's quite a bit of wheat, since I think Briess wheat extract is about 35% wheat.

My oktoberfest has 0 wheat, as is traditional, but I've noticed that one of the reasons I hate wheat beers is a sort of "lemon" tartness I pick up from the wheat. Could that be the flavor you're getting in this beer?

Huh, good point. That could be. I just had a Paulaner Octoberfest yesterday and actually detected a bit of a tart flavor to it. Kinda strange. My first Octoberfest had no tart taste to it at all. Just pure delicious "fresh bread" taste. Wish I could just duplicate that again.

 

[Yooper]

Huh, good point. That could be. I just had a Paulaner Octoberfest yesterday and actually detected a bit of a tart flavor to it. Kinda strange. My first Octoberfest had no tart taste to it at all. Just pure delicious "fresh bread" taste. Wish I could just duplicate that again.

Was your first recipe exactly the same? Because "fresh bread" taste doesn't sound at all like wheat malt. Wheat beers have this tart finish to them that some think of us refreshing, but I absolutely hate. Specialty grains like Munich malt have this wonderful bready note to them that I love, but you don't have enough to overcome all of that wheat in that recipe.

Your recipe looks like an American wheat but with lager yeast. Cascade hops are grapefruity, so that could be where some citrus notes are coming from as well- totally weird and tart in an Oktoberfest.

 

[jjsemperfi]

Was your first recipe exactly the same? Because "fresh bread" taste doesn't sound at all like wheat malt. Wheat beers have this tart finish to them that some think of us refreshing, but I absolutely hate. Specialty grains like Munich malt have this wonderful bready note to them that I love, but you don't have enough to overcome all of that wheat in that recipe.

Your recipe looks like an American wheat but with lager yeast. Cascade hops are grapefruity, so that could be where some citrus notes are coming from as well- totally weird and tart in an Oktoberfest.

Unfortuantly every time I go to my local home brew shop they don't have the same yeast and hops, so this recipe is a little different. My first recipe was as follows:

8 lbs Pale Malt Extract
1 Lb Dextrine / Carafoam
1 Lb Melanoiden Malt
1.5 Lbs Caramunich I
1 pkg WY German Ale Yeast
OG 1.060
FG 1.014

It had no tart flavor at all. Just tasted smooth and delicious.

 

[jjsemperfi]

Oh crap! I'm sorry guys, I gave you the recipe for my Odell's Easy Street Wheat clone! Ahhhh, sorry. The last recipe I listed was the one I used. Except I had to use different yeast and hops.

 

[Yooper]

Oh crap! I'm sorry guys, I gave you the recipe for my Odell's Easy Street Wheat clone! Ahhhh, sorry. The last recipe I listed was the one I used. Except I had to use different yeast and hops.

Well, even so, using different yeast and different hops will totally and completely change the beer. Maybe not as much as the posted recipe (and obvious American wheat beer), but using different ingredients will simply make a different beer. That's probably why this beer tastes so different.

If you're making spaghetti sauce, and use cumin instead of Italian seasoning (hops are the "spice" in beer, like Italian seasoning is the spice in spaghetti sauce), you won't have a spaghetti sauce. The same is true of using different hops for the most part- you'll get an entirely different beer unless the hops are in the same type and very similar. Yeast also dramatically changes a beer.

Beer has four ingredients- hops, yeast, malt, and water. If you change two of those items, you change half of the recipe.

That's probably why your beer doesn't taste the same, if you change half of the ingredients!

 

[jjsemperfi]

Well, even so, using different yeast and different hops will totally and completely change the beer. Maybe not as much as the posted recipe (and obvious American wheat beer), but using different ingredients will simply make a different beer. That's probably why this beer tastes so different.

If you're making spaghetti sauce, and use cumin instead of Italian seasoning (hops are the "spice" in beer, like Italian seasoning is the spice in spaghetti sauce), you won't have a spaghetti sauce. The same is true of using different hops for the most part- you'll get an entirely different beer unless the hops are in the same type and very similar. Yeast also dramatically changes a beer.

Beer has four ingredients- hops, yeast, malt, and water. If you change two of those items, you change half of the recipe.

That's probably why your beer doesn't taste the same, if you change half of the ingredients!

gotcha, thanks. I'll give it another week or two and try it. Also, just wondering, does using two packages of yeast per 5 gallon batches hurt anything? The home brew shop said it's better than one?

 

[jjsemperfi]

You guys were right, just a little young. Gave it a try last night, and it's pretty damn good. I'll let it sit another week.