Tannin Flavor

[scottyg354]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Have you used these guidelines. I am having some flavor issues with the water in my area and recently bought a RO system. I just brewed an IPA with these guidelines and I am hoping for the best results. I used the British profile for the IPA I brewed and I am using the light beer profile for a Helles and the Burton profile for a Scottish 70 Schilling I am brewing this weekend.

For the IPA the PH wound up going a little low 5.1, I think its because I used a pound of crystal on top of the acidulated malt, but thats a hell of a lot better than the 6.1 I was getting from the local bottled water.

 

[pd230soi]

I have been having problems with a taste I could not put my finger on. I am getting ready to move so I have not been brewing for a while, but I was beginning to think I was using too much water (as in volume) during my sparge.

Are your volumes correct?

Somewhere I had read that could cause astringency... maybe I'm all wet....

 

[RoadKing]

How much gypsum did you add? When I first started messing with my water, (which is very soft) I tried "balancing" the sulfate and chloride ratios for different styles and quickly found out I do not like sulfates in my beer.
To me it left a strange taste on the back of my tongue. You can try adding a little gypsum to a glass beer you like and see if you get the type "off" taste.
Just my .02

 

[mabrungard]

How much gypsum did you add? When I first started messing with my water, (which is very soft) I tried "balancing" the sulfate and chloride ratios for different styles and quickly found out I do not like sulfates in my beer.
To me it left a strange taste on the back of my tongue. You can try adding a little gypsum to a glass beer you like and see if you get the type "off" taste.
Just my .02

Do add it in the same proportion as used in brewing water. For a glass of water, that probably means are few granules and not a tsp.

Be aware that the sulfate/chloride ratio is meaningless if the total magnitude of those ions isn't taken into account. You can't just add gypsum to a water with high chlorides in a quest to create a proper ratio and expect a good result.

 

[Magic8Ball]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/brewing-water-chemistry-primer-198460/

Have you used these guidelines. I am having some flavor issues with the water in my area and recently bought a RO system. I just brewed an IPA with these guidelines and I am hoping for the best results. I used the British profile for the IPA I brewed and I am using the light beer profile for a Helles and the Burton profile for a Scottish 70 Schilling I am brewing this weekend.

For the IPA the PH wound up going a little low 5.1, I think its because I used a pound of crystal on top of the acidulated malt, but thats a hell of a lot better than the 6.1 I was getting from the local bottled water.

I have used yoppers guidelines, its good advice albeit simplified. Never to leave good enough alone, I now use the Walmart RO dispenser water along with salt additions called for by the Saq's water chem spreadsheet.
The night before brewday I make up all water needed with the salt additions to ensure they are dissolved. Its easy fast and has worked great for the last year and half.

 

[Zoidberg]

Just posting a reply to wathc this thread

Just an off topic commend to your post. If you click thread tools at the top of the thread you can subscribe without posting.

 

[cosmo]

Well, it's been a couple months since my original post and I thought I would give everyone an update. Previously I was using all RO water with salt additions in the mash only. I followed Martin's advice on the last few batches and used 50% RO water and 50% tap water. I added equal amounts of Gypsum and calcium chloride to get the Ca above 50 ppm. All water for mash and sparge was mixed in one HLT this time so mash and sparge water were the same. I used 3 ml lactic acid in the mash and ended up with a mash pH of 5.3 (calibrated pH meter). I added 1 ml of lactic acid to the sparge water to get a pH of 5.8. The first batch with this new technique is now about 5 weeks in the keg. The tannin flavor seems to be much better, but still slightly detectable. For my next bew, I increased the gap on my mill from 0.85 mm (0.0335 in) to 0.9 mm (0.0354 in) to see if that helps.

 

[Yooper]

Well, it's been a couple months since my original post and I thought I would give everyone an update. Previously I was using all RO water with salt additions in the mash only. I followed Martin's advice on the last few batches and used 50% RO water and 50% tap water. I added equal amounts of Gypsum and calcium chloride to get the Ca above 50 ppm. All water for mash and sparge was mixed in one HLT this time so mash and sparge water were the same. I used 3 ml lactic acid in the mash and ended up with a mash pH of 5.3 (calibrated pH meter). I added 1 ml of lactic acid to the sparge water to get a pH of 5.8. The first batch with this new technique is now about 5 weeks in the keg. The tannin flavor seems to be much better, but still slightly detectable. For my next bew, I increased the gap on my mill from 0.85 mm (0.0335 in) to 0.9 mm (0.0354 in) to see if that helps.

The next batch, I'd suggest sparging with 100% RO water. That is what worked perfectly for me, and it's worth a try!

 

[pkrath84]

Pardon my ignorance but what does "tannin" taste like. I've always thought of it as more of a mouth feel thing but read about possible astringent flavors etc... ie: I add black tea to my cider for tannins to give it more body and to take the edge off the tartness when it's consumed young.

Right now I'm thinking astringent bitter... maybe like burnt coffee. Am I on the right track?

 

[cosmo]

The next batch, I'd suggest sparging with 100% RO water. That is what worked perfectly for me, and it's worth a try!

That's what I had been doing all along. I was using all RO for mash and sparge with salts in mash only. I switched to 50% RO and 50% tap with salts in both mash and sparge and acidified sparge. That's when I noticed some improvement. Maybe I should try all RO, but with salts mixed evenly between mash and sparge. Is that what you are suggesting? Thanks for your input. I may try that next time I brew.

 

[cosmo]

Pardon my ignorance but what does "tannin" taste like. I've always thought of it as more of a mouth feel thing but read about possible astringent flavors etc... ie: I add black tea to my cider for tannins to give it more body and to take the edge off the tartness when it's consumed young.

Right now I'm thinking astringent bitter... maybe like burnt coffee. Am I on the right track?

I think post #24 may answer your question. I'm not %100 sure it is tannin, but it's definately not bitterness. I don't know how better to describe it.

 

[Denny]

Pardon my ignorance but what does "tannin" taste like. I've always thought of it as more of a mouth feel thing but read about possible astringent flavors etc... ie: I add black tea to my cider for tannins to give it more body and to take the edge off the tartness when it's consumed young.

Right now I'm thinking astringent bitter... maybe like burnt coffee. Am I on the right track?

Tannin DOESN'T taste like anything...you are correct. It's a mouthfeel, not a flavor. Every time I hear someone refer to it as a flavor I want to scream.

 

[cosmo]

Agreed. I think this point was made a while back. That's why I avoided using the term flavor in my last post. I would change the title of the entire thread if I could, but I don't know if that is even possible.

 

[Denny]

Agreed. I think this point was made a while back. That's why I avoided using the term flavor in my last post. I would change the title of the entire thread if I could, but I don't know if that is even possible.

Don't worry about me....I'm just OCD like that!

 

[eluterio]

When do we get to hear about the results? Ive been using RO for a year now and I think I understand what your describing, I just think. I've been noticing the same constant mouthful in each of my beers since January. At first I believed it to be a sanitation problem now Im wondering if its my RO water. I think ill be reading a little bit more on water treatment on RO.

 

[cosmo]

Post 37 summs up the results so far on my batch with 50% RO and 50% Tap water. I seem to be detecting some slight improvement. I have bewed with this process change a few times and am waiting to see if the other batches also show improvement. Additionally, I want to see how it changes as it ages. I'll update again when I have more conclusive results.

 

[eluterio]

Cool thanks!