Tank 7 Clone -- Yeast Selection Opinions

[kyoun1e]

So for my 2nd brew I've decided to do a Tank 7 clone. You can see it here:

http://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/tank-seven-extract-beer-kit/brewing-supplies

I decided to avoid the dry hopping associated with the Dales Pale Ale clone.

Anyways, the kit doesn't come with yeast but presents several options. I have no idea what to choose. The options:

* Danstar Belle Saison Yeast ($4.99)
* Wyeast 3711 French Saison ($7.49)
* B56 Rustic Imperial Organic Yeast ($11.99)
* B64 Napolean Imperial Organic Yeast ($11.99)
* White Labs WLP 590 French Saison Yeast -- PurePitch ($6.99)

Any thoughts?

And why would you make your selection?

I don't just go for the cheapest if one of them is going to get me closer to the real deal.

Also, the kit doesn't come with irish moss or priming sugar. Assume I can pick that up either at the home brew shop or get it online.

Thanks!

 

[griffi]

I made a tank 7 clone of sorts (not a kit) a year or so ago. I used white labs 565, saison I. It turned out good. That said, I have read that Belgian Ardennes will get you closest. I have also read good things about belle saison but haven't used it.

 

[audioa84]

I decided to avoid the dry hopping associated with the Dales Pale Ale clone.

If I understand you correctly, you want to avoid dry hopping. That recipe relies heavily on the dry hopping. The beer won't be close without it, IMO. It may still be a great beer, just not an exact clone.

Irish moss and priming sugar should be available at any homebrew shop.

I wouldn't recommmend 3711. I've used it twice and it doesn't really match the flavor profiles I find in Tank 7. I've had Tank 7 on draught, in 750ml and 12oz. It is a great beer but I would try one of the other yeasts. Just my 2 cents.

Good luck!

 

[IslandLizard]

Are you set up to make a yeast starter from liquid yeast? If not, use dry yeast, Belle Saison is very decent.

Also, shipping liquid yeast in the middle of summer is discouraged. Ice packs have melted before the package leaves the warehouse.

There are a few threads on here already on Tank 7 clones. Use for inspiration or to assemble your own.

 

[NothingRhymesWithCurtiss]

I love Belle Saison and have used it in my last 3 saisons, but I feel that it's lemony and slightly tart, nothing like the yeast that they use in Tank 7.

In this recipe (That has a 32 page thread) they recommend White Labs 670.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=250256

 

[kyoun1e]

Are you set up to make a yeast starter from liquid yeast? If not, use dry yeast, Belle Saison is very decent.

Also shipping liquid yeast in the middle of summer is discouraged. Ice packs have melted before the package leaves the warehouse.

There are a few threads on here already on Tank 7 clones. Use for inspiration or to assemble your own.

Summer heat may be a criteria here then. I'm planning on having the kit and yeast shipped the next day or two and I know it's going to be high 80s and humid for the next week.

Should I stick with the dry yeast then?

 

[z-bob]

You can use plain ol' table sugar for priming. Contrary to what they told us 30 years ago, it works great. If you can get liquid yeast locally, go for it. But if you have to order it online, use a dry yeast like Belle Saison. I will be using Belle for the first time in a couple of week.

I also want to try K1V wine yeast in a strong French or Belgian beer someday, but I certainly wouldn't experiment with it in a $62 kit.

BTW, some of you knowledgeable people, doesn't Tank 7 use Brett?

 

[audioa84]

From what I've read, it does not. Boulevard's Saison Brett does, as the name suggests, use Brett.

 

[IslandLizard]

I looked at GF's description of the recipe. (Golden) Candy syrup is unlikely part of the original Tank 7 recipe. You could use regular sugar instead to increase ABV without increasing body. The list of ingredients includes Flaked Wheat, which is curious as that needs to be mashed to convert the starches, but without a minimash along with a diastatic malt, that won't happen. An FG of 1.011 to 1.015 is also outside a Saison's style range, low single digits are more the norm.

$62, ouch!

As I said before, there are very good clone recipes out here on HBT and elsewhere, perhaps even an extract or mini mash adaptation.

I've brewed the clone recipe. I linked to above, a few times, and although it's a great Saison I wouldn't call my effort a clone, not close to the original. Mine has way more body, even at an FG of 1.006. An extract recipe will be even more removed, since the original grain bill includes 20% flaked corn for lighter body, which also needs to be mashed. The GF recipe could have used a royal amount of rice syrup (or solids) to mimic that.

Yeast is an important part of a Saison's character, and ironically, IIRC, Boulevard's head brewer (at the time) said something that "for brewing a good Saison you don't use a Saison yeast." Allegedly they use a Belgian Abbey or Trappist yeast, or some proprietary house blend. WY3522 is a wonderful yeast, I use it a lot for Belgian IPAs. It may work well here.

If you have a decently stocked homebrew store within reasonable distance I'd consider buying liquid yeasts there (I do), especially during extreme seasons (hot or freezing) along the shipping route. Call ahead to make sure they have that particular strain actually in stock. Many of us typically order (liquid) yeasts during moderate seasons. You do need to make adequately sized starters from liquid yeast, typically a few days to a week before brewing, so keep that in mind.

 

[IslandLizard]

I just looked up GF's reference to the 2017 All American Homebrew Competition:

This recipe won a silver medal at the 2017 All American Homebrew Competition!

If that's indeed the correct competition, the 2017 Silver Medal in that category went to a Belgian Blonde (by CT Owen).

 

[griffi]

This is what I did for my tank 7 and I really liked it:

 

[kyoun1e]

Well, considering I'm a complete novice at this I may need to come to grips with the fact that my crack at a Tank 7 may not come out exactly like a Tank 7!

I'm definitely going to go with the kit...just don't think I'm ready to mix and match, ensure I get all the right ingredients and at the right poundage, etc. That said, I wonder if around the fringes of this kit I make changes. For example, somebody mentioned the candied syrup being a bit off.

May buy a couple of yeasts too. Feel like this is deserving of attention. Maybe a liquid one from the local brew store which seems to be the preferred option.

And by the way, this hobby is starting to rack up the bills. Lol. My god. I'd hope that as I learn more and dial things in, I start to save dollars.

Thanks!

 

[z-bob]

You start saving money when you order a 55# sack of grain and a pound of dual-purpose hops, and use those over and over with very little specialty grains (which you buy at the LHBS). You save even more if you can repitch your yeast.

There's nothing wrong with extract beer kits (if it's a good kit); it's a good way to get some experience. But they are much more expensive than all-grain, and all-grain doesn't really get cheap until you buy the big stuff in bulk. IMHO.

 

[griffi]

You could also just buy this a lot cheaper than $62:

 

[kyoun1e]

Now you guys are bumming me out. Thinking I should have saved the money and just gone to the home brew store...

 

[griffi]

now you guys are bumming me out. Thinking i should have saved the money and just gone to the home brew store...

rdwhahb

 

[z-bob]

Is that what's in the kit? I don't know what the corn is for; the wheat malt won't be able to convert that much and there's nothing listed about the mash temperature.

It looks like someone took an all-grain recipe and substituted LME for the pale malt and forgot about the rest.

It still might be good, tho'.

 

[kyoun1e]

Is that what's in the kit? I don't know what the corn is for; the wheat malt won't be able to convert that much and there's nothing listed about the mash temperature.

It looks like someone took an all-grain recipe and substituted LME for the pale malt and forgot about the rest.

It still might be good, tho'.

Here are the kit details:

http://www.greatfermentations.com/downloads/instructions/beerkits/TankStevenExtract_UNCLEAN.pdf

 

[kyoun1e]

And LOL...I was avoiding the Dale's Pale Ale kit because of the adding dry hops wrinkle...

...I'm now reading the fine print here and I have to add them in this recipe too! Oh well, guess we'll tackle this.

 

[z-bob]

Here are the kit details:

http://www.greatfermentations.com/downloads/instructions/beerkits/TankStevenExtract_UNCLEAN.pdf

I have no idea what the flaked wheat is for. (body? "wheaty"-ness?) Malted wheat would make more sense. But it looks better than the extract recipe with 2 lbs of corn, and I think it will be good. You'll have to report back to us.

 

[IslandLizard]

I know the OP is a new brewer, brewing extracts. The (extract) recipe kit as provided by GF will yield a very different beer from a Tank 7. They also include a pound of Flaked Wheat to be "steeped," which is useless, and should not be used at all here, (i.e., there are no diastatic malts to convert the flaked wheat in a mash).

The sum of ingredients, as they provide it, is around $42 at retail price. Yeast is extra.

Here's the original recipe as it was provided by the Head Brewer at Boulevard in 2011 (I reformatted and added some extra info for clarity):

Link to Recipe

I was at Boulevard recently for an event and I thought I would take a minute to inquire about one of our favorite beers, Tank 7. Here is what I got from Steven Pauwels:

GRAIN BILL
70% Pale Malt
20% Flaked Corn
10% Wheat Malt

MASH SCHEDULE
45'@ 62 °C (144 °F)
15'@ 68 °C (154 °F)
15'@ 73 °C (163 °F)
Mashout @ 76 °C (169 °F)

HOPS
37 IBU Magnum

YEAST
Belgian Yeast (recommended Abbey & Trappist)

FERMENTATION
Temp: 70°F

DRY HOP
For 5 gallon: 1.3 oz Amarillo

It seems that aside from the bittering hop, there are NO other boil and whirlpool hops. That may be correct and the flavor and aroma ride solely on the Amarillo dry hop charge.

Later in that same recipe thread someone added this:

Hops:
Amount IBU Name Time AA %
0.70 oz 29 Magnum 60 mins 14.00
0.55 oz 13 Simcoe 20 mins 13.00
0.25 oz 1.2 Simcoe 3 mins 13.00

Dry Hop:
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold 5 days 8.50

That would make a different beer, but looks yummy. Saisons are about as loose as they come, stylewise, so there's lots of room for personal input.

 

[TungstenBeer]

And LOL...I was avoiding the Dale's Pale Ale kit because of the adding dry hops wrinkle...

...I'm now reading the fine print here and I have to add them in this recipe too! Oh well, guess we'll tackle this.

Dry hopping isn't a difficult process to do at all, you've got this!

 

[tbred]

I just looked up GF's reference to the 2017 All American Homebrew Competition:



If that's indeed the correct competition, the 2017 Silver Medal in that category went to a Belgian Blonde (by CT Owen).

Try looking under table 26. It was entered as a clone beer, not a saison.

 

[IslandLizard]

Try looking under table 26. It was entered as a clone beer, not a saison.

Ah, OK, thanks for finding it.

 

[kyoun1e]

You could also just buy this a lot cheaper than $62:

Took a trip to the home brew store. Got myself the white labs liquid yeast.

Also talked a little about dry hopping. Guys there said throw it in a muslin bag, dump it in, call it a day.

 

[griffi]

Took a trip to the home brew store. Got myself the white labs liquid yeast.

which yeast?

 

[kyoun1e]

which yeast?

White Labs Belgian Saison 585.

Told the brew guys I was going Saison and Tank 7 clone and that's what they recommended. Good?

They also mentioned that Saison's like heat. My current IPA has been sitting in consistent 62-66 degrees F and they're saying 80+ degrees is fine. I'd have to sit the thing outside.

 

[z-bob]

Just wrap it up in a blanket. The yeast will produce heat.

 

[griffi]

You should be good with that yeast.

 

[schlagle]

I made Tank 7 clone 4 weeks ago using the recipe below, with a few tweaks. The most notable of the tweaks was that my LHBS was out of the Wyeast 3711 French Saison so I went with Imperial Rustic.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=4282969&postcount=86

I fermented at 68F for the first week then threw it in a corny and sat it at 75F to finish it off and for a week of dry hopping. I put it on CO2 a few days ago and had two glasses last night. It is delicious. This was also my first all grain batch. I'm going to buy some Tank 7 today and do a side by side because it tastes very similar to me. I think mine is a bit smoother though.