Switching to from Propane to natural gas

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I just called The Bayou, and they said that the 5235 Brass orifice which is 3/8" M Flare x 1/4" MNPT fits both the BG10 and BG14 burners. There is conflicting info on the web, and I wouldn't say the guy on the phone gave me 100% confidence in what he was saying...
 
Banjo burner (10") with a NG conversion nipple from Williams Brewing. Easy peasy and cheaper than Blichman.

I also got my hose from G4 (in Louisiana I think). Not cheap, but purpose built. I knew a guy that used a garden hose... scary stuff!!
 
satph said:
I just called The Bayou, and they said that the 5235 Brass orifice which is 3/8" M Flare x 1/4" MNPT fits both the BG10 and BG14 burners. There is conflicting info on the web, and I wouldn't say the guy on the phone gave me 100% confidence in what he was saying...
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Interesting. So you have the SQ14 that uses the BG12 burner correct?
 
Yes, I do have the SQ14with the BG12 burner. The guy in my LHBS sold me the loose orifice, so I never saw its specs.
 
satph said:
Yes, I do have the SQ14with the BG12 burner. The guy in my LHBS sold me the loose orifice, so I never saw its specs.
Click to expand...

Yeah, it sounds like he gave you the 1/4" NPT orifice when the BG12 seems to require a 1/8" NPT orifice. As you have probably noticed, the original orifice appears to be incorporated into the end of the propane line and is not removable. Bayou doesn't seem to sell the 1/8"NPT orifice by itself.

I did find an 1/8" Male NPT with #61 gas orifice x 3/8" here. (look towards the bottom) Anyone know what #61 means? Is this for natural gas?

Edit: Sorry, I had you mixed up with NewJersey who had to drill out his burner to get it to work. It sounds like you were given the correct orifice from the beginning.
 
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
I did find an 1/8" Male NPT with #61 gas orifice x 3/8" here. (look towards the bottom) Anyone know what #61 means? Is this for natural gas?
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Not sure, but from the picture it looks very small, which means you can most likely drill it out yourself to Ø.125 and be good to go for NG. I noticed in the description you can specify a custom orifice size. You might want to ask them about it.

Edit: #61 orifice corresponds to a #61 drill size, which = 0.039" - Not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier. This would be the size for high pressure propane.

Edit: Did you see P/N CVO125 a little higher up?

Description: Gas Control Valve Orifice, 1/8" M NPT x 3/8" M SAE GF, with #61 orifice. Specify desired customized orifice size or call us if you are not sure. High pressure cast burners work with a #61 orifice. Low pressure and natural gas burners require a larger orifice size. If you are not sure send us a picture of the burner and we will help you choose. No extra charge. With this needle valve you can replace the existing orifice fitting and have direct control over the flame height right at the burner. Wt. 1.9 oz., Free Shipping.

One of those puppies with a custom .125 orifice should have you off and running.
 
LLBeanJ said:
Not sure, but from the picture it looks very small, which means you can most likely drill it out yourself to Ø.125 and be good to go for NG. I noticed in the description you can specify a custom orifice size. You might want to ask them about it.
Click to expand...

What orifice size are we talking for natural gas? I read that it could vary?
 
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
What orifice size are we talking for natural gas? I read that it could vary?
Click to expand...

.125 for the banjo burner, but I guess I'm not sure for the hurricane. Did you see my update to my previous post? That source you linked seems knowledgeable, you might want to give them a call or email and tell them what you are trying to do and see what they recommend.
 
LLBeanJ said:
.125 for the banjo burner, but I guess I'm not sure for the hurricane. Did you see my update to my previous post? That source you linked seems knowledgeable, you might want to give them a call or email and tell them what you are trying to do and see what they recommend.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I just got off the phone with them and yes, they are very knowledgeable. He recommended the CVO125 (first item pictured) which has the proper size threads on both ends as well as a needle valve adjustment. $20 with free shipping

As for the orifice size, the guy that I talked to said to make the following note while checking out "Drill for LP cast for Natural gas".

I'm about to order now and will post the results when I receive it next week.
 
The Blickman floor burner uses the same orifice as the burner that is shaped like a cup and 4" or so in diameter for natural gas. I can't remember who I was talking to earlier today.
 
Here is a pic of the two orifices for the Blichmann Floor (and BC Banjo) burner:

On the left, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.039" (#61) orifice for propane

On the right, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.125" orifice for NG

WP_20150114_002.jpg
 
LLBeanJ said:
Here is a pic of the two orifices for the Blichmann Floor (and BC Banjo) burner:

On the left, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.039" (#61) orifice for propane

On the right, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.125" orifice for NG
Click to expand...

Nice. Thanks for posting.

My hose will arrive on Fri and my control valve will be here on Tuesday. I'll have to post followup photos of my SQ14 conversion for anyone interested.
 
bg12-with-natural-gas-conversion-64764.jpg


My valve arrived and everything seems to fit well. The only issue that I am seeing now is the orifice nipple may not be quite long enough.

If i screw it in all the way and make it tight, there's not enough space to fit the supply line on.

Right now about 1/2 of the threads are screwed into the burner body but it's not exactly tight.

What are the odds of gas escaping from the threads between the burner and valve and igniting in an undesirable location? I'm debating whether or not to buy a 1" or so extension to bring the valve out a little so that it will tighten up and allow room for the supply hose nut.

I'll post photos of the burner in action later this evening when the sun sets.
 
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
bg12-with-natural-gas-conversion-64764.jpg


My valve arrived and everything seems to fit well. The only issue that I am seeing now is the orifice nipple may not be quite long enough.

If i screw it in all the way and make it tight, there's not enough space to fit the supply line on.

Right now about 1/2 of the threads are screwed into the burner body but it's not exactly tight.

What are the odds of gas escaping from the threads between the burner and valve and igniting in an undesirable location? I'm debating whether or not to buy a 1" or so extension to bring the valve out a little so that it will tighten up and allow room for the supply hose nut.

I'll post photos of the burner in action later this evening when the sun sets.
Click to expand...

A bit of teflon tape or pipe dope will solve that issue without need for an extension.
 
bg12-on-natural-gas-64765.jpg


Here's a photo at night with the needle valve wide open. I was able to adjust the air to get a fairly nice blue flame that rises up in the shape of a cone to a height of about 6".

How does this flame look? Do you think that the orifice needs to be opened up a little more?
 
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
bg12-on-natural-gas-64765.jpg


Here's a photo at night with the needle valve wide open. I was able to adjust the air to get a fairly nice blue flame that rises up in the shape of a cone to a height of about 6".

How does this flame look? Do you think that the orifice needs to be opened up a little more?
Click to expand...

That flame looks great. I agree with Gila on the Teflon tape suggestion.
 
LLBeanJ said:
That flame looks great. I agree with Gila on the Teflon tape suggestion.
Click to expand...

Thanks!

I'm still wondering if increasing the size of the orifice is going to give a better output.

I've seen on here where others were drilling the hole out to 1/8" for natural gas but this may have been for the larger 10" burners. The one that I'm using is the 6". Right now its not burning nearly as hot as it did when ran on propane.

I just measured the opening by fitting a drill bit down into the orifice hole and then using a micrometer to measure the drill bit and came up with .080".
 
Any opinions on drilling out the orifice a little larger? I'm hesitating a bit because I of course don't want to screw it up by opening it up too much.

The flame does not roar like it did with the propane.

What do you think? Should I be happy with the flame that I have or open it up a little more to see if it increases performance?
 
Did you try heating water yet? Natural Gas burners generally don't "roar" - its one of the benefits.
 
I agree you need to test it. That flame look perfect to me. As FuriousE stated, NG does not roar like propane does, rather it's very quiet. This is due to NG being low pressure and LPG being high pressure.
 
LLBeanJ said:
I agree you need to test it. That flame look perfect to me. As FuriousE stated, NG does not roar like propane does, rather it's very quiet. This is due to NG being low pressure and LPG being high pressure.
Click to expand...

Yeah, maybe the lack of roar is throwing me off. I just need to test it and see what it does.
 
My SQ-14 on NG doesn't roar at all. Your flame looks good. I agree do a test boil with 5g of water. If you're still not happy, drill out one numbered drill size larger and test again.
 
helibrewer said:
I know there is stuff on the web about how and what size to drill out the orifice.
Click to expand...

Here's a couple for low pressure LPG and Natural Gas:
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/lowp_chrt.html
http://www.hvacredu.net/gas-codes/module2/Gas Orifice Capacity Chart.pdf

and one for high pressure LPG:
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/highp_chart.html

Also, anyone know a good source for needle valve fitting between 3/8 female flare hose and 1/8 or 1/4 MPT going into orifice?
 
MrNatural said:
Here's a couple for low pressure LPG and Natural Gas:
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/lowp_chrt.html
http://www.hvacredu.net/gas-codes/module2/Gas Orifice Capacity Chart.pdf

and one for high pressure LPG:
http://www.joppaglass.com/burner/highp_chart.html

Also, anyone know a good source for needle valve fitting between 3/8 female flare hose and 1/8 or 1/4 MPT going into orifice?
Click to expand...

I suppose it would be best to know the W/C coming out of my supply line.

I believe that the BG12 produces 55k BTU's when operated on propane. Since NG produces 15% BTU's compared to propane, we are looking at 46,750 BTU's.

Depending on supply pressure, according to these charts I should have a hole somewhere between roughly 0.11"-0.13. Right now my hole is measuring 0.08". This give a little wiggle room.

Am looking using the chart correctly?
 
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
I suppose it would be best to know the W/C coming out of my supply line.

I believe that the BG12 produces 55k BTU's when operated on propane. Since NG produces 15% BTU's compared to propane, we are looking at 46,750 BTU's.

Depending on supply pressure, according to these charts I should have a hole somewhere between roughly 0.11"-0.13. Right now my hole is measuring 0.08". This give a little wiggle room.

Am looking using the chart correctly?
Click to expand...
I read it the same way, dependent on supply WC. I must confess I don't know squat and haven't stayed at a Holiday Inn Express for many moons.
OrdinaryAvgGuy said:
Are you looking for one like the one that I purchased?
Click to expand...
This one.
248786d1421256091-switching-propane-natural-gas-image_1.jpg

I have this orifice:
http://www.agrisupply.com/Orifice-For-Asc/p/72051/
On this burner:
http://www.agrisupply.com/cast-iron-burner/p/64494/
 
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I have a SQ14 and just realized there's a natural gas hookup on the corner of my deck. Can anybody who's converted their SQ14 confirm what parts they used, and if it required any drilling? There's a lot of suggestions in this thread (and elsewhere), but nothing that says "I bought these parts, hooked them up, and everything is good". (Or conversely, that you tried some stuff and it didn't work out.)
 
I bought the Blichmann LP to NG conversion kit for my Banjo burner. Worked perfectly. It's the right orifice size for any LP burner to run on NG.
 
QuercusMax said:
I have a SQ14 and just realized there's a natural gas hookup on the corner of my deck. Can anybody who's converted their SQ14 confirm what parts they used, and if it required any drilling? There's a lot of suggestions in this thread (and elsewhere), but nothing that says "I bought these parts, hooked them up, and everything is good". (Or conversely, that you tried some stuff and it didn't work out.)
Click to expand...

Honestly, I'm not even sure anymore. I've also seen conflicting reports and even had one forum member make some snide remark to me in another thread about giving incorrect info on this very subject. Evidently, he had a 10" burner casting (same size as the Blichmann), but the thread size was too small to accept the Blichmann LPG to NG adapter, so he was all bent out of shape because he followed the advice given on the forum and it didn't work straight out of the box.

Here's the deal: all the cast burners from Bayou Classic will work with NG. The correct orifice size for NG is Ø.125" (as opposed to Ø.061" for LPG). The parts you need will depend on the thread size in your burner casting, which will be either 1/8" NPT or 1/4" NPT. I have no idea what the ACTUAL thread size in your SQ14 casting is, so you will need to check.

If the burner has a 1/4" NPT thread, you will be good to go with the Blichmann Floor Burner LPG to NG conversion kit and the Brinkman Quick-Disconnect hose from Amazon that AZ_IPA linked to a few posts up. The only other thing you'll need will be the fitting(s) to connect the QD from the hose to your gas plumbing.

On the other hand, if your casting has the smaller, 1/8" NPT thread, you will also need any one of the following:
1) a step-down adapter (1/4" NPT female to 1/8" NPT male), to attach the Blichmann valve from the converstion kit to your casting.
2) drill out and tap your casting to 1/4" NPT (not recommended unless you are familliar with drilling and tapping tapered pipe threads)
3) Instead of using the Blichmann kit, you can buy one of the other needle valves linked above that already is sized to fit directly into a 1/8" thread. If you do this, just be sure to specify that you need the orifice sized for NG (Ø.125").

Before you can actually know what you need, you should verify the thread size in your casting. Maybe you have a 1/4" NPT or 1/8" NPT fitting lying around that you can use to match it up? If not, go to the hardware store and pick up a 1/4" NPT nipple and see if it fits in your casting, assuming they have American pipe thread sizes available in The Great White North.
 
One of those links I posted said to call with your burner model and they'd tell you what you need.

I've been too lazy to call, but not too lazy to keep driving around filling up propane tanks. :eek:
 
Thanks! That's super helpful. It looks like my SQ14 is 1/8" NPT, so I'll likely just get the 1/4" FNPT to 1/8" MNPT adapter and the Blichmann part. It looks like it will be super easy to switch out (based on how easy it was to unscrew the existing line), too, so if I want to make my burner portable again that should be totally doable.
 

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