Switching to from Propane to natural gas

[b-boy]

This is a timely thread, realized the gas shutoff valve and meter are right at the corner of my garage where I setup my new brew space at my new house. I was looking at it a few months ago and realized I probably should look into the cost of installing a hookup for my burner and converting over from propane. I mean propane works fine, but the gas main is RIGHT there and I would never need to worry about filling propane tanks again, other than for my little BBQ.

Definitely worth it. I was refilling propane tanks about once a month at $22 a pop. I haven't noticed any increase in my gas bill since switching to NG.

My stand has pilot lights, so I plug it into the gas line, light the pilots and I can turn the burners on and off as needed. I added a nice NG QD so I can pop the hose on in a few seconds. No permanent connection needed.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Hum. That sounds more like it. Maybe because I measured the outside of the threads instead of the inside.

I'm looking at the Bayou product specs and it says that the orifice threads are 1/4"MNPT. If the Blichmann is in fact 1/4" and uses the MNPT threads then it should work. I'm searching for the Blichmann thread size now to confirm.

I have a spare orifice at home for the Blichmann burner. I'll measure it and report back when I get home this evening if you don't find your answer before then. I'm almost certain it's 1/4" NPT, though.

Update: Confirmed 1/4" NPT is the thread size in the Blichmann Floor (and Bayou Classic Banjo) cast iron burner.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I have a spare orifice at home for the Blichmann burner. I'll measure it and report back when I get home this evening if you don't find your answer before then.

That would be great! Thanks.

 

[satph]

I never used my SQ-14 on propane, so I can't compare the boil times. It's supposed to be de-rated when using NG (Blichmann claims 15%) so I assume I could boil faster with propane. For 5gallon batches I put my strike water first on a brew day and have time to weigh and mill my grains. While the boil is coming up I have enough time to prep all of my hops additions. I get a nice rolling boil even when it's below freezing outside. I very rarely feel that I'm waiting on the burner. Best of all there's no tank to run out. When you switch, if you can report the comparisons that would be great to know.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I'm finding conflicting information online when it comes to the thread size of the BG12 burner.

I'm measuring about .35" with a micrometer which is about 3/8 of an inch. Some places online are saying that the orifice threads are 1/4" while others are saying different"

 

[LLBeanJ]

If you measure across the very first thread on the male fitting, the diameter should be:

~.495 for 1/4" NPT
~.375 for 1/8" NPT

Picture added of a 1/4" NPT thread measurement with calipers...

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

If you measure across the very first thread on the male fitting, the diameter should be:

~.495 for 1/4" NPT
~.375 for 1/8" NPT

Picture added of a 1/4" NPT thread measurement with calipers...

Thanks! That helped a lot.

Measured as mentioned, I'm getting .375 so I guess its the 1/8" NPT. I'm still not understanding how .375 - 1/8". Shouldn't 1/8" be .125?

 

[LLBeanJ]

It's a pipe thread, so it's not the thread size that the nominal size corresponds to, it's the size of the inside diameter of a pipe. For a piece of pipe to be .125 diameter inside, it will require a considerably larger outside thread size. Make sense?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I never used my SQ-14 on propane, so I can't compare the boil times. It's supposed to be de-rated when using NG (Blichmann claims 15%) so I assume I could boil faster with propane. For 5gallon batches I put my strike water first on a brew day and have time to weigh and mill my grains. While the boil is coming up I have enough time to prep all of my hops additions. I get a nice rolling boil even when it's below freezing outside. I very rarely feel that I'm waiting on the burner. Best of all there's no tank to run out. When you switch, if you can report the comparisons that would be great to know.

Will do. Thanks!

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

It's a pipe thread, so it's not the thread size that the nominal size corresponds to, it's the size of the inside diameter of a pipe. For a piece of pipe to be .125 diameter inside, it will require a considerably larger outside thread size. Make sense?

Ah okay. I was just reading up on pipe thread size.. I learned something new today. Thanks for clarifying.

So it doesn't look like I can use the Blichmann without a reducer as mentioned.

While looking around just now I came across this conversion valve Which seems to have the same thread configuration but a little less expensive. I did however notice that it had a ball valve instead of a needle valve. I'm guessing a needle valve will give better control?

Anyone know of a 1/8" NPT NG orifice/valve converter?

 

[LLBeanJ]

I would think the ball valve would probably work, but yeah, the needle would give more precise control.

 

[satph]

I just called The Bayou, and they said that the 5235 Brass orifice which is 3/8" M Flare x 1/4" MNPT fits both the BG10 and BG14 burners. There is conflicting info on the web, and I wouldn't say the guy on the phone gave me 100% confidence in what he was saying...

 

[Komocabo]

Banjo burner (10") with a NG conversion nipple from Williams Brewing. Easy peasy and cheaper than Blichman.

I also got my hose from G4 (in Louisiana I think). Not cheap, but purpose built. I knew a guy that used a garden hose... scary stuff!!

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

I just called The Bayou, and they said that the 5235 Brass orifice which is 3/8" M Flare x 1/4" MNPT fits both the BG10 and BG14 burners. There is conflicting info on the web, and I wouldn't say the guy on the phone gave me 100% confidence in what he was saying...

Interesting. So you have the SQ14 that uses the BG12 burner correct?

 

[satph]

Yes, I do have the SQ14with the BG12 burner. The guy in my LHBS sold me the loose orifice, so I never saw its specs.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Yes, I do have the SQ14with the BG12 burner. The guy in my LHBS sold me the loose orifice, so I never saw its specs.

Yeah, it sounds like he gave you the 1/4" NPT orifice when the BG12 seems to require a 1/8" NPT orifice. As you have probably noticed, the original orifice appears to be incorporated into the end of the propane line and is not removable. Bayou doesn't seem to sell the 1/8"NPT orifice by itself.

I did find an 1/8" Male NPT with #61 gas orifice x 3/8" here. (look towards the bottom) Anyone know what #61 means? Is this for natural gas?

Edit: Sorry, I had you mixed up with NewJersey who had to drill out his burner to get it to work. It sounds like you were given the correct orifice from the beginning.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I did find an 1/8" Male NPT with #61 gas orifice x 3/8" here. (look towards the bottom) Anyone know what #61 means? Is this for natural gas?

Not sure, but from the picture it looks very small, which means you can most likely drill it out yourself to Ø.125 and be good to go for NG. I noticed in the description you can specify a custom orifice size. You might want to ask them about it.

Edit: #61 orifice corresponds to a #61 drill size, which = 0.039" - Not sure why this didn't occur to me earlier. This would be the size for high pressure propane.

Edit: Did you see P/N CVO125 a little higher up?

Description: Gas Control Valve Orifice, 1/8" M NPT x 3/8" M SAE GF, with #61 orifice. Specify desired customized orifice size or call us if you are not sure. High pressure cast burners work with a #61 orifice. Low pressure and natural gas burners require a larger orifice size. If you are not sure send us a picture of the burner and we will help you choose. No extra charge. With this needle valve you can replace the existing orifice fitting and have direct control over the flame height right at the burner. Wt. 1.9 oz., Free Shipping.

One of those puppies with a custom .125 orifice should have you off and running.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Not sure, but from the picture it looks very small, which means you can most likely drill it out yourself to Ø.125 and be good to go for NG. I noticed in the description you can specify a custom orifice size. You might want to ask them about it.

What orifice size are we talking for natural gas? I read that it could vary?

 

[LLBeanJ]

What orifice size are we talking for natural gas? I read that it could vary?

.125 for the banjo burner, but I guess I'm not sure for the hurricane. Did you see my update to my previous post? That source you linked seems knowledgeable, you might want to give them a call or email and tell them what you are trying to do and see what they recommend.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

.125 for the banjo burner, but I guess I'm not sure for the hurricane. Did you see my update to my previous post? That source you linked seems knowledgeable, you might want to give them a call or email and tell them what you are trying to do and see what they recommend.

Thanks!

I just got off the phone with them and yes, they are very knowledgeable. He recommended the CVO125 (first item pictured) which has the proper size threads on both ends as well as a needle valve adjustment. $20 with free shipping

As for the orifice size, the guy that I talked to said to make the following note while checking out "Drill for LP cast for Natural gas".

I'm about to order now and will post the results when I receive it next week.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Sweet!

 

[MindenMan]

The Blickman floor burner uses the same orifice as the burner that is shaped like a cup and 4" or so in diameter for natural gas. I can't remember who I was talking to earlier today.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Here is a pic of the two orifices for the Blichmann Floor (and BC Banjo) burner:

On the left, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.039" (#61) orifice for propane

On the right, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.125" orifice for NG

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Here is a pic of the two orifices for the Blichmann Floor (and BC Banjo) burner:

On the left, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.039" (#61) orifice for propane

On the right, 1/4" NPT x 3/8" flare x Ø.125" orifice for NG

Nice. Thanks for posting.

My hose will arrive on Fri and my control valve will be here on Tuesday. I'll have to post followup photos of my SQ14 conversion for anyone interested.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

My valve arrived and everything seems to fit well. The only issue that I am seeing now is the orifice nipple may not be quite long enough.

If i screw it in all the way and make it tight, there's not enough space to fit the supply line on.

Right now about 1/2 of the threads are screwed into the burner body but it's not exactly tight.

What are the odds of gas escaping from the threads between the burner and valve and igniting in an undesirable location? I'm debating whether or not to buy a 1" or so extension to bring the valve out a little so that it will tighten up and allow room for the supply hose nut.

I'll post photos of the burner in action later this evening when the sun sets.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

My valve arrived and everything seems to fit well. The only issue that I am seeing now is the orifice nipple may not be quite long enough.

If i screw it in all the way and make it tight, there's not enough space to fit the supply line on.

Right now about 1/2 of the threads are screwed into the burner body but it's not exactly tight.

What are the odds of gas escaping from the threads between the burner and valve and igniting in an undesirable location? I'm debating whether or not to buy a 1" or so extension to bring the valve out a little so that it will tighten up and allow room for the supply hose nut.

I'll post photos of the burner in action later this evening when the sun sets.

A bit of teflon tape or pipe dope will solve that issue without need for an extension.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

Here's a photo at night with the needle valve wide open. I was able to adjust the air to get a fairly nice blue flame that rises up in the shape of a cone to a height of about 6".

How does this flame look? Do you think that the orifice needs to be opened up a little more?

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

A bit of teflon tape or pipe dope will solve that issue without need for an extension.

Sounds like a good solution.

 

[LLBeanJ]

Here's a photo at night with the needle valve wide open. I was able to adjust the air to get a fairly nice blue flame that rises up in the shape of a cone to a height of about 6".

How does this flame look? Do you think that the orifice needs to be opened up a little more?

That flame looks great. I agree with Gila on the Teflon tape suggestion.

 

[OrdinaryAvgGuy]

That flame looks great. I agree with Gila on the Teflon tape suggestion.

Thanks!

I'm still wondering if increasing the size of the orifice is going to give a better output.

I've seen on here where others were drilling the hole out to 1/8" for natural gas but this may have been for the larger 10" burners. The one that I'm using is the 6". Right now its not burning nearly as hot as it did when ran on propane.

I just measured the opening by fitting a drill bit down into the orifice hole and then using a micrometer to measure the drill bit and came up with .080".