Switching power between elements/PIDs possible?

[The Pol]

I have a "Spa Panel", which is a 50A GFCI Circuit breaker that I use for my Main Power.
Then I take the output of the SSR's and run it through DPDT switches like these. This allows me to cut the electric (both poles) to the device.

+2 on this... I cut both legs to the element too... it is easy to do, so why not?

Larry... you brewing on that beast this weekend?

I wanted to go to the BIG BREW DAY up here, but they dont have a 240VAC circuit that I can use.

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Yes, I brewed on The Beast yesterday.

Long story short, lessons learned:
1. Come up with some way of monitoring the level of water above the element. Event just the tip getting dry will cause meltdown (literally).

2. Buy a spare 40a SSR. My boil SSR would never shut off. This is the 2nd from Auber that I've had a problem with. The first was bad out of the box.

3. Don't use a 4500w element in the HLT. You don't have enough time to grind grain and pour a homebrew before mashing in See #1 for down sides.

4. Get some of those damn HDPE containers and skip the CFC, increasing the efficiency into the ferm, decreasing my PITA factor.

My brew was a BeeCave (EdWort) Haus Ale. I overshot the OG by 6 points (1.060) due to an 82.8% efficiency! This tasted YUMMMMY on the sample.

 

[The Pol]

Yes, I brewed on The Beast yesterday.

Long story short, lessons learned:
1. Come up with some way of monitoring the level of water above the element. Event just the tip getting dry will cause meltdown (literally). You need THE POLs $3.28 Sight Gauge!

2. Buy a spare 40a SSR. My boil SSR would never shut off. This is the 2nd from Auber that I've had a problem with. The first was bad out of the box. Are you serious?? Of course you are... how many sessions before failure?

3. Don't use a 4500w element in the HLT. You don't have enough time to grind grain and pour a homebrew before mashing in See #1 for down sides. OUCH

4. Get some of those damn HDPE containers and skip the CFC, increasing the efficiency into the ferm, decreasing my PITA factor. $13 at USPlastics.com!

My brew was a BeeCave (EdWort) Haus Ale. I overshot the OG by 6 points (1.060) due to an 82.8% efficiency! This tasted YUMMMMY on the sample. EXCELLENT!!

Live and learn!!

 

[WBC]

If you use PID then your HLT can be ready for mash when you need it. You can set a timer to turn on the PID controller the next morning and it will be ready. If the element is too big then just use 40 or 50% on the PID and it will slow the heating. Having a water level maintained could be as simple as a float valve.

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Ok, here is what happens when you aren't paying attention. This was done using a 4500w element during fly sparging. V2.0 will have a level switch to prevent this.

Note the little balls of copper that produce this:

.

Looks like a trip to Home Depot.

 

[conpewter]

Ultra low density elements can be dry fired without ruining them (it is not recommended though).

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Are there any ULD elements out there that are straight (not the S curved ones ) ?

 

[The Pol]

I admit, when I fly sparge, I turn my HLT OFF. I figure, it is 173F already, the grain bed is 166-168F and it is a cooler, so I shut mine off so that I dont accidentally do that.

 

[conpewter]

I was at Menards (home depot like store) and saw the 4500W ultra low density elements (less than 50W per sq inch) that were straight. I think the 5500W ULD elements have to be rippled to have enough square inches. The 4500W ones were bent back on themselves, and black like the other ULD elements.

The Pol. I also unplug my HLT when I start sparging. I don't want to dry fire if I can help it. Also if it is a 10 gal recipe I'll sometimes have enough wort that I can start the boil with the first runnings and then pump in the two batch sparges as I get them. If not I can always start the boil after the 1st batch sparge.

Found one
https://www.hardwareworld.com/4500-watt-Lime-Life-Element-pN7NU1T.aspx

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Thanks compewter, that is the element that I went with, picked up at Home Depot today.

Now waiting on the new SSR and to pick up a new cooler. The old one, I will patch the bottom with a piece of plexi and make that a grain storage unit.

 

[Rhino17]

I was at Menards (home depot like store) and saw the 4500W ultra low density elements (less than 50W per sq inch) that were straight. I think the 5500W ULD elements have to be rippled to have enough square inches. The 4500W ones were bent back on themselves, and black like the other ULD elements.

You have a non-rippled 4500w ULD element? How long is it? I have this 4500w ULD made by Camco and it is rippled and 13" long. If it were straightened out, (but still doubled over) it would be 16-17" long. How long is the Menards 4500w ULD? If it were built with the same material as the Camco, I would think that it would be too long for our use. Or is ther more than 1 element on the unit?

lrr81765, are you using 20a 4-way switches? A 4500w element will draw 20.45a at 220v. I am assuming that the extra .45a would be within tolerance for these switches? When wiring a circuit, does the 80% rule apply to switches, or just wiring/breakers?

Rhino

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

I found a 4500w "Lime Life: LIFETIME Warranty ( this is a big plus for me ) ULD @ Home Depot today. It is by AO Smith, with Camco noted as well. It says ok for dry fire and operation in sand, and is doubled over.

It's total length is 13" and was $20.

I have 20a DPDT switches. I have 240 in my garage, so it is at 18.75a.

EDIT: It looks the same as the ones on this page, but has # 15184

 

[tannnick]

Well to post from a thread a while back about why would you have two PIDs, well basically, if I want to brew multiple brew sessions back to back, I will need 2 PIDs. I tried to do it on big brew and what could have been about 6-7 hours ended up being 9 hours! But I have 2 rockin beers in the fermenter.

Second, I have a 4500w Low Density element and have no problems. No scorching, perfect timing and dirt cheap. I would go with the ULD but I havent had any problems with mine. I have a 3800w in my HLT and a 4500w in my BK. I work in a hardware store and we only stock low density.

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

Yes, the two PIDs do help in that situation. Pretty rare for a lot of us.

Also, the need to step up to 40a service ( 4500+3800/220=37.8), the additional cost of the wiring (#8 ?) and hardware, just didn't justify the once or twice a year that I might do that.

Since it is getting easier, and I can soon DO THINGS on the honey do list while brewing, I figure brewing more often offsets those.

 

[The Pol]

Yes, the two PIDs do help in that situation. Pretty rare for a lot of us.

Also, the need to step up to 40a service ( 4500+3800/220=37.8), the additional cost of the wiring (#8 ?) and hardware, just didn't justify the once or twice a year that I might do that.

Since it is getting easier, and I can soon DO THINGS on the honey do list while brewing, I figure brewing more often offsets those.

Larry, you need to get me an order, unless you plan to take a chance on first come, first serve overruns on the 8th and 9th. If so, that is cool, you will probably clean it all up!

 

[conpewter]

You have a non-rippled 4500w ULD element? How long is it? I have this 4500w ULD made by Camco and it is rippled and 13" long. If it were straightened out, (but still doubled over) it would be 16-17" long. How long is the Menards 4500w ULD? If it were built with the same material as the Camco, I would think that it would be too long for our use. Or is ther more than 1 element on the unit?

lrr81765, are you using 20a 4-way switches? A 4500w element will draw 20.45a at 220v. I am assuming that the extra .45a would be within tolerance for these switches? When wiring a circuit, does the 80% rule apply to switches, or just wiring/breakers?

Rhino

There's one linked in the previous post, and another linked after. They could just have a slightly larger diameter so thus more surface area. I don't plan on dry firing but it is nice. The low density elements are also just fine. I don't know if in a really thick wort if they'd be more likely to scorch (I'm planning a brew with an OG of 1.162 later this summer)

 

[Rhino17]

I found these switches at a nearby supplier. Although I was going to purchase the 20a DPST levitron household switches, could I not use the 4-Pole ON-ON switch as a DPST by not connecting the one output side?

These would look a lot cleaner on the front panel, and I can purchase waterproof boot covers for them. From the pictures, it looks like these switches are rated for 20a at both 250v and 125v, so they should be suitable, no?

 

[LooyvilleLarry]

They look like they would work fine.Nice Find!