Sweetening back with Xylitol can I still bottle carb?

[Fyrespinner]

I've got my first batch (5 gal) of cider / apple wine just about ready to bottle. It is bone dry @ 1.000.
I read on another thread somewhere to use xylitol (a non ferment-able sweetener) to sweeten it back to where I want it to be before bottling.
I used fresh pressed cider (1.045) and added 2lb brown sugar {forgot to take my reading after adding sugar} I fermented for 2 weeks, racked it, dropped in some sparkolloid, fermented another 2 weeks, and just racked it again. I am dropping 5 cups of xylitol to the batch. I want to bottle carb this batch. Does any one know how much corn sugar I should use when I want to bottle? And will the xylitol negatively affect being able to bottle carb?
I may want to add some organic apple concentrate to it today as well; just to bring back some of the apple flavor.
Anyone got some advice, or just the outright answer?
BTW, I have a 35 gallon batch (different apples) ready to rack today too. I also forgot to take a reading on it, but added 14lbs brown sugar and 2lbs black strap molasses to that one.
It is not feasible for me to cold crash as I don't have the space to do so in the fridge.

 

[MindenMan]

Many people use one 12oz can of frozen concentrate to prime 5 gallons of hard cider.
Are you absolutely sure you ant to use 5 cups of xylitol? I am not familiar with xylitol, but I am with Splenda and Erythritol, and in our baked goods we always used a little of each to avoid the "fake" sweetener taste created by only using use kind of sweetener.

 

[jtratcliff]

I haven't use xylitol.... But since it's a non fermentable sugar, it shouldn't get in the way of bottle carbing with the appropriate amount fermentables... Be it concentrate, sugar, or what not.... When using concentrate make sure to know the sugar amount for the right level of carbonation!

5 cups of xylitol in a 5 gal batch seems a bit excessive though....

 

[Yooper]

I haven't use xylitol.... But since it's a non fermentable sugar, it should get in the way bottle carbing with the appropriate amount fermentables... Be it concentrate, sugar, or what not.... When using concentrate make sure know the sugar amount for the right level of carbonation!

5 cups of xylitol in a 5 gal batch seems a bit excessive though....

I haven't used xylitol either, or actually any sweetener like that- but isn't xylitol one of the sugar substitutes that cause diarrhea?

 

[Fyrespinner]

5 cups of xylitol in a 5 gal batch seems a bit excessive though....

It does sound excessive, but I tasted it, adding 1 cup to a gallon, it was very sweet, but good, cut it back to 4 cups, and it's just right (for me) I like dessert wines and the other sweet stuff, not so big on dry at all.

 

[jtratcliff]

oh crap... Typo... I meant "shouldn't get in the way"

I'll change it in my original but since Yooper quoted me I thought I'd better acknowledge it...

And as for diarrhea then if Lorena is Da Yooper, then Fyrespinner might become Da Pooper!

Why yes, I am 12, why do you ask?

 

[Fyrespinner]

I haven't used xylitol either, or actually any sweetener like that- but isn't xylitol one of the sugar substitutes that cause diarrhea?

I did the research, yes it can if you have a sensitive system, but if you don't no ill effects. No real aftertaste that I can tell, and it is a "natural" sweetener, we'll see after drinking a few, maybe I'll have to save those for people I don't care for.....lol

 

[natehoekstra]

I will let you know in 2 weeks. I just bottled a 5 gallon batch that I sweetened with 4 tbsp per gallon of xylitol before secondary and primed with an ounce per gallon of priming sugar with an intended 2.5 volumes of carbs. The xylitol won't affect carbing, or so I hope. I expect good results.

 

[jtratcliff]

4 tbsp/gal seems much more realistic... Fyrespinner are you doing cups of dry xylitol powder or some xylitol syrup? Or are you really that much of a sweet tooth?

 

[natehoekstra]

I specifically avoided over-sweetening to avoid artificial flavor. 4 tbsp was enough to take the super dry edge off

 

[johnnybrew91]

Where do you get the xylitol, at a vitamin store or is it in a grocery store with the other artificial sweeteners?

 

[bu_gee]

I had considered using xylitol to sweeten my cider, but I had found an article that said that it can stall out the fermentation cycle of the yeast because they might uptake the xylitol preferentially to the other sugars and then not be able to digest it.

I don't know if this is true for all strains of yeast or even true at all. I am very curious to see what results you get.

 

[natehoekstra]

Xylitol is a non ferment able sugar. That article is wrong. I bought xylitol on Amazon

 

[bu_gee]

Xylitol is a non ferment able sugar. That article is wrong. I bought xylitol on Amazon

The article didn't say that xylitol is fermentable. In fact, it said that it gets in the way of fermentation.

 

[natehoekstra]

My mistake. Reading fail.

 

[Yooper]

I had considered using xylitol to sweeten my cider, but I had found an article that said that it can stall out the fermentation cycle of the yeast because they might uptake the xylitol preferentially to the other sugars and then not be able to digest it.

I don't know if this is true for all strains of yeast or even true at all. I am very curious to see what results you get.

I don't know of anybody who added xylitol before fermentation was finished, so I'm not sure that would work. Most people who would use xylitol, or other generally nonfermentable sweeteners would add it post fermentation, once the yeast were done.

I'm no chemist, but xylitol is a polyalcohol and as such should be unfermentable to brewer's yeast.

 

[Owly055]

For humans it is the safest and best of sugar substitutes...... also the oldest. Keep it away from your canine friends, it takes out the liver. It is also said to be toxic to cats, though there isn't much to confirm this. Xylitol causes hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) in dogs by stimulating the pancreas to produce insulin. The process results in liver failure within a relatively short time. Needless to say, it has the same effect on wolves and coyotes, it would be useful if it was a bit more selective, and just took out dogs you don't like, wolves and coyotes, but like strychnine and 1080, it's an indiscriminate killer.

H.W.

 

[Fyrespinner]

Where do you get the xylitol, at a vitamin store or is it in a grocery store with the other artificial sweeteners?

I found it at my local farmers market in the dry goods stand. I have not found it in any of my local grocery stores... but I wasn't really looking either.

BTW, I used 4 cups of syrup 2:1 to sweeten, and yes, I am that much of a sweet tooth.... some of my fav's are ice wines, and fruit wines. Merlot and Pino are for cooking only in our household. (Have never found a beer I could even finish one bottle of)

 

[johnnybrew91]

Nice, but if xylitol could mess with fermentation wouldn't that mean it might not bottle condition. Like said before if the yeast eat the xylitol instead of the fermentable priming sugar?

 

[MindenMan]

I realize we aren't talking about Splenda, but you might want to know, the FDA in all their glory, sets a minimum/maximum level on certain ingredients. Splenda, is listed as zero carbohydrates, well, that's not exactly true. If we are talking a spoonful in your coffee, no big deal, but if you use a cup to bake with, you need to multiply 0.4 times the number of teaspoons in a cup to calculate the carb load. It is not carb free. Since it contains less than 0.5 carbs per serving, they don't have to list it.
And while I am talking about the lack of truth in the ingredient list, here comes Corona Beer. One might wonder, how does a beer in a clear bottle not skunk from the hops it uses? Oh duh, right, the anti-skunking chemical they add to their beer, once again, another company avoiding the truth in advertising "promise", falls below the FDA mandated requirement level to post the additive on the ingredient list.
If you knew what level of mouse hair, skin and **** is allowed in commercial canned soup, no, you don't want to know. Shall we talk about pickles next? Yum, the acidic bite isn't just from vinegar, do you think?

 

[orangehero]

And while I am talking about the lack of truth in the ingredient list, here comes Corona Beer. One might wonder, how does a beer in a clear bottle not skunk from the hops it uses? Oh duh, right, the anti-skunking chemical they add to their beer, once again, another company avoiding the truth in advertising "promise", falls below the FDA mandated requirement level to post the additive on the ingredient list.

What chemical is that? I might start adding it to my beers if it's available to homebrewers.

 

[thatjonguy]

What chemical is that? I might start adding it to my beers if it's available to homebrewers.

Pretty sure they just use a pre-isomerized hop extract product. Extracted in a lab with liquid CO2.

 

[natehoekstra]

Nice, but if xylitol could mess with fermentation wouldn't that mean it might not bottle condition. Like said before if the yeast eat the xylitol instead of the fermentable priming sugar?

The whole point of using xylitol is that it is a non-fermentable sugar, which means the yeast can't eat it. Maybe I'm confused, but I would not at all be worried about the xylitol affecting the yeast, they are unrelated.

 

[ohiochris]

Just use enough sugar or juice concentrate to get the sweetness you want , bottle , check a bottle every cuple days until you are happy with the carbonation , then stovetop pasteurize to stop it right where you want it. No extra fake or unnatural sugars.

 

[ubnserved]

For humans it is the safest and best of sugar substitutes...... also the oldest. Keep it away from your canine friends, it takes out the liver. It is also said to be toxic to cats, though there isn't much to confirm this. Xylitol causes hypoglycemia (low blood sugar) in dogs by stimulating the pancreas to produce insulin. The process results in liver failure within a relatively short time. Needless to say, it has the same effect on wolves and coyotes, it would be useful if it was a bit more selective, and just took out dogs you don't like, wolves and coyotes, but like strychnine and 1080, it's an indiscriminate killer.

H.W.

I read an article sometime back and as little as a package of gum had enough xylitol to kill or seriously injure a dog. This sweeter is commonly used in sugar free gums.

 

[ubnserved]

Just use enough sugar or juice concentrate to get the sweetness you want , bottle , check a bottle every cuple days until you are happy with the carbonation , then stovetop pasteurize to stop it right where you want it. No extra fake or unnatural sugars.

I would do this or if you really want chemicals in your cider then try using the ones that stop fermentation both are available at your brew store and at amazon. Camden tablets and potassium sorbate. These two things will stop fermentation there is some confusion on this forum about them. I have not used them and have not fully researched them. As far as I can tell, you use them together to halt fermentation and one of them interferes with the yeast reproduction cycle thus halting or seriously slowing fermentation down. They do not actually kill the yeast, you pasturize for that. They are both really cheap on amazon and your cider will not taste like sugar free crap. As someone who can taste most sugar free stuff I think this is a much better alternative. You can find tons of things about it on this site or do a little research about them.

 

[ubnserved]

Ps: I did not see (or overlooked ) the part about you wanting to bottle carb so this solution may not work for you.

 

[ubnserved]

Try this instead...

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/back-sweetening-bottle-conditioning-carbing-cider-452663/

Good luck

 

[Maylar]

Xylitol is an organic sugar alcohol made from birch trees. It tastes like sugar and leaves no aftertaste. It's the only non fermentable sugar I will use. I hate artificial sweeteners.

Yeast won't know it's there. It does nothing to either inhibit or aid fermentation. Add it to taste at bottling time, add your priming sugar and you're good to go.

I use Xylo Sweet brand and I find it at health food stores or vitamin shops in the nutritional supplement area. 3 TBSP per gallon works for me.

 

[ericbw]

I realize we aren't talking about Splenda, but you might want to know, the FDA in all their glory, sets a minimum/maximum level on certain ingredients. Splenda, is listed as zero carbohydrates, well, that's not exactly true. If we are talking a spoonful in your coffee, no big deal, but if you use a cup to bake with, you need to multiply 0.4 times the number of teaspoons in a cup to calculate the carb load. It is not carb free. Since it contains less than 0.5 carbs per serving, they don't have to list it.
And while I am talking about the lack of truth in the ingredient list, here comes Corona Beer. One might wonder, how does a beer in a clear bottle not skunk from the hops it uses? Oh duh, right, the anti-skunking chemical they add to their beer, once again, another company avoiding the truth in advertising "promise", falls below the FDA mandated requirement level to post the additive on the ingredient list.
If you knew what level of mouse hair, skin and **** is allowed in commercial canned soup, no, you don't want to know. Shall we talk about pickles next? Yum, the acidic bite isn't just from vinegar, do you think?

Uh, who told you Corona doesn't skunk. Half the time, it's skunked.

 

[ericbw]

I've got my first batch (5 gal) of cider / apple wine just about ready to bottle. It is bone dry @ 1.000.

I read on another thread somewhere to use xylitol (a non ferment-able sweetener) to sweeten it back to where I want it to be before bottling.

I used fresh pressed cider (1.045) and added 2lb brown sugar {forgot to take my reading after adding sugar} I fermented for 2 weeks, racked it, dropped in some sparkolloid, fermented another 2 weeks, and just racked it again. I am dropping 5 cups of xylitol to the batch. I want to bottle carb this batch. Does any one know how much corn sugar I should use when I want to bottle? And will the xylitol negatively affect being able to bottle carb?

I may want to add some organic apple concentrate to it today as well; just to bring back some of the apple flavor.

Anyone got some advice, or just the outright answer?

BTW, I have a 35 gallon batch (different apples) ready to rack today too. I also forgot to take a reading on it, but added 14lbs brown sugar and 2lbs black strap molasses to that one.

It is not feasible for me to cold crash as I don't have the space to do so in the fridge.

Your first batch was 5 gallons, and you followed that with 35 gallons before the first one finished? Bold!

 

[Yooper]

I would do this or if you really want chemicals in your cider then try using the ones that stop fermentation both are available at your brew store and at amazon. Camden tablets and potassium sorbate. These two things will stop fermentation there is some confusion on this forum about them. I have not used them and have not fully researched them. As far as I can tell, you use them together to halt fermentation and one of them interferes with the yeast reproduction cycle thus halting or seriously slowing fermentation down. They do not actually kill the yeast, you pasturize for that. They are both really cheap on amazon and your cider will not taste like sugar free crap. As someone who can taste most sugar free stuff I think this is a much better alternative. You can find tons of things about it on this site or do a little research about them.

Sorbate and campden don't stop an active fermentation.

 

[MindenMan]

I have never had a Corona that tasted skunky, not that I recall. I do remember Heineken, and Beck's and Saint Pauli Girl tasting skunky way too often years ago.

 

[ericbw]

I have never had a Corona that tasted skunky, not that I recall. I do remember Heineken, and Beck's and Saint Pauli Girl tasting skunky way too often years ago.

I thought Heinekin was supposed to taste that way on purpose.

We're derailing...

 

[Fyrespinner]

Your first batch was 5 gallons, and you followed that with 35 gallons before the first one finished? Bold!

I built a cider press, grinder, ect.. the whole set up. We started by harvesting my neighbors tree and a tree from one of the properties I did some work at. That got us about 400-500 lb of unsprayed, organic apples..... Then I put out a post on Craigslist wanting unsprayed apples, that got us 5 more trees. So the first go round was trying to get the community involved in the whole thing by gifting cider, well I had about 7 gallons left (for us) Then when we picked the other trees we had about 1500 - 1700 lbs of apples, I "paid" the people who helped with cider, and kept 37 gallons for us. That is how it went from a five gallon batch to 35 gallon batch. Used the lees off the first racking of the five to pitch the 35, tasted the big batch last night.... wow, the flavors really developed well, and the cinnamon sticks I threw in the first batch really came out in the big one..

 

[Fyrespinner]

I built a cider press, grinder, ect.. the whole set up. We started by harvesting my neighbors tree and a tree from one of the properties I did some work at. That got us about 400-500 lb of unsprayed, organic apples..... Then I put out a post on Craigslist wanting unsprayed apples, that got us 5 more trees. So the first go round was trying to get the community involved in the whole thing by gifting cider, well I had about 7 gallons left (for us) Then when we picked the other trees we had about 1500 - 1700 lbs of apples, I "paid" the people who helped with cider, and kept 37 gallons for us. That is how it went from a five gallon batch to 35 gallon batch. Used the lees off the first racking of the five to pitch the 35, tasted the big batch last night.... wow, the flavors really developed well, and the cinnamon sticks I threw in the first batch really came out in the big one..

And recently spent a **** ton of money on carboys.... I guess I'm ready for just about anything now, (2 bottle buckets, 3 brew buckets, 1 55gallon drum, 4 six gallon glass carboys, 2 five gallon plastic jugs, 8 airlocks, ect... and all the carboys and jugs full of cider. I guess I'll need to buy anther come payday to start the 2nd racking.