Sweet flavor in every homebrew

[BenS]

When I first got on this board I read your post like they were gospel. Now I just see you as a bully that likes to copy and past the same crap and try to intimidate people into thinking if it isn’t your way it isn’t correct

Let's not be to harsh JeepDriver. Revvy has helped out many new brewers on this forum with his consistent advice on fermentation conditions. Like you, I agree that there are different approachs to solving brewing problems and most home brewers start taking their own approach as they become more experienced. On top of that, its an internet forum, people should take everything they learn here with a grain of salt.

Back to the OP, how old are these kits you are using? Specifically the malt extract. If the kits are more than 6 months old, try ordering a fresh kit from northernbrewer.com or another online retailer that moves a large volume of extract to ensure it is as fresh as possible. I really believe that the malt extract is your culprit. But take that with a grain of salt.

 

[BrewKnurd]

While it may not be the best way to make beer, IT STILL MAKES BEER.

Yeah, but the OP was specifically asking about how to make his beer better and deal with under-attentuation. Therefore, just MAKING BEER isn't really the objective for the OP, is it? Its improving his beer. Therefore, it seems reasonable to provide information about things which might not be required but which might address his issues. granted, the starter talk is now moot given that we've learned OP is using dry yeast.

 

[JeepDiver]

Yeah, but the OP was specifically asking about how to make his beer better and deal with under-attentuation. Therefore, just MAKING BEER isn't really the objective for the OP, is it? Its improving his beer. Therefore, it seems reasonable to provide information about things which might not be required but which might address his issues. granted, the starter talk is now moot given that we've learned OP is using dry yeast.

Yes, but Revvy stated that if you didn't make a starter that your beer wouldn't hit the expected FG. That is BS. Unless every kit the OP has done has been over 7-8% his issue is not makeing a Starter. Preaching that you have to make a starter to make beer correctly is BS and doesn't help anyone address the current problem.

 

[BrewKnurd]

Yes, but Revvy stated that if you didn't make a starter that your beer wouldn't hit the expected FG. That is BS. Unless every kit the OP has done has been over 7-8% his issue is not makeing a Starter. Preaching that you have to make a starter to make beer correctly is BS and doesn't help anyone address the current problem.

What I read from Revvy was that not making a starter was a likely reason, not that you can't hit your FG without a starter, but you can interpret his words however you want. Doesn't change the fact that ranting about how you'll make beer either way doesn't help an OP who wants to make better beer.

Anyways, for the OP, main causes of underattenuation:
1) Cold temps. If you're between 65 and 68, this is unlikely, but you can always try raising the temp to 70-72 after the first 4-5 days of fermentation to see if this helps drive attenuation.
2) Unfermentables in wort. When doing extract, you have no real control over this, other than to try other extracts.
3) Less than proper yeast pitch and oxygenation. Yeast need oxygen to build their cell walls and reproduce, so if you start with too little yeast and O2, you potentially could have attenuation issues. Since you're pitching dry yeast, as long as the packs aren't too old or mishandled, it shouldn't be a big problem if your OGs are 1050ish or less. Theoretically, if you're low on yeast but high on O2, they should be able to reproduce enough to make up for it. If you're high enough on yeast and low on O2, they should be fine. Its if you're low on both you could have problems.

How far off are you on your final gravities?

 

[JeepDiver]

Fermentation

I follow the 1,2,3 method.
Primary,secondary,bottle. Fermentation is usually between 65 and 68 degrees. I ferment in my basement on concrete.

Is 65-68 air temps, or wort temp? If your basement is 65 degrees, and your fermentor is on a concrete floor, then that is going to suck even more heat out of the wort, possibly putting you below the yeast threashold. If this was the issue though, I would expect you to see over carbonated beer and/or bottle bombs when you warmed the bottles up to 70ish and they yeast wake back up.

 

[JeepDiver]

If you're not pitching enough yeast, your not going to get the attenuation you want. And as I stated above, according to mr malty, even a beer with an og of 1,030 should have a starter.

*shrug*

Not too many ways to read that

I've "under pitched" plenty of times and alwyas got the attenuation that I expected

 

[unionrdr]

The op said he added specialty grains. That's telling me enough un-fermentables were added to raise the possible FG over what he expected. Another possibilty anyway...

 

[Mpavlik22]

Yes, but Revvy stated that if you didn't make a starter that your beer wouldn't hit the expected FG. That is BS.

I agree with you on this.

I doubt the OP's issue is the lack of making a starter. He did use three different yeasts and had a high FG. So that tells me it's not the yeast.

I would look elsewhere, possibly your well water?

 

[djfriesen]

As was mentioned, is it possible that the LME, upon being added to the boil, is carmelizing? thebluewaffle, are you pulling your BK off of the heat while you add and stir in your LME? Seems if you aren't, there is a change of carmelization/scorching and you could be making fermentable sugars into unfermentable ones. This would be reflected in proper OGs and higher FGs. Just a thought that I saw was mentioned, but hadn't heard you confirm or deny what you have done.

 

[Rev2010]

With all due respect, some of the others here have a point. When I read Revvy's response about not making a starter I thought the same thing - Whaaa??? All of my beers that have been under 1.060 I've only used one Wyeast pack and all have attenuated fully, some better than Beersmith's estimates. I only recently started making starters since I have a 1.060 Pumpkin Ale and a 1.077 Weizenbock. But before that I've never had this overly sweet issue so it does sound awkward to say not making a starter is the likely reason.


Rev.

 

[Rev2010]

Is 65-68 air temps, or wort temp? If your basement is 65 degrees, and your fermentor is on a concrete floor, then that is going to suck even more heat out of the wort, possibly putting you below the yeast threashold.

Not likely since fermentation temps are often anywhere from 3-5 degree F higher than the ambient temp during the primary fermentation phase. Once Krausen completely drops then it's typically around ambient temps. The concrete floor might have some effect, but certainly not enough to stall fermentation in that ambient temp.


Rev.

 

[thebluewaffle]

As was mentioned, is it possible that the LME, upon being added to the boil, is carmelizing? thebluewaffle, are you pulling your BK off of the heat while you add and stir in your LME? Seems if you aren't, there is a change of carmelization/scorching and you could be making fermentable sugars into unfermentable ones. This would be reflected in proper OGs and higher FGs. Just a thought that I saw was mentioned, but hadn't heard you confirm or deny what you have done.

I havn't done this which could be the main problem now that think about it. How fast will those sugars caramelize? I always stir while pouring.

 

[thebluewaffle]

The temperature I am talking about is from those sticker thermometers on the side of my car boy. I'm thinking it's got to have to be the kits themselves. Anyone else here use brewers best? Another thing could be the specialty grains. Do these only produce unfermentable sugars? How could I make them produce more fermentable sugars? I also think it's diacytal, from the description I've read of the off flavor it seems spot on to what I taste.

 

[JeepDiver]

The temperature I am talking about is from those sticker thermometers on the side of my car boy. I'm thinking it's got to have to be the kits themselves. Anyone else here use brewers best? Another thing could be the specialty grains. Do these only produce unfermentable sugars? How could I make them produce more fermentable sugars? I also think it's diacytal, from the description I've read of the off flavor it seems spot on to what I taste.

I've used their kits and The kits usually have the OG and FG spot on as long as you follow the directions even with the specialty grains. Diacytal is usually described as buttery and slick not sweet.

 

[Golddiggie]

Temperature shouldn't be an issue since that yeast has a range of 59-75F (read the packet)...

Try using pure O2 to oxygenate the wort. The shake method works for many, but it's rather limited.

Get your water tested, and test the PH of the wort before you pitch the yeast in.

Try using some yeast nutrient in the batches. I do this as a matter of practice and have not regretted it. The Wyeast nutrient is pretty cheap considering how many batches you get from one tube.

Check the Mr. Malty site to make sure you're not severely under, or over, pitching the yeast.

Instead of pitching the yeast in dry, rehydrate it first.

Check the dates on the yeast packets.

Are you keeping the yeast in the fridge/freezer?? Even dry yeast should be at least refrigerated.

Since you're an extract brewer, try using a different brand of extract. Also try switching between DME and LME.

Use the lightest DME you can get. That will contain less other malts, helping to eliminate that as a cause.

Check the dates on everything... You want the extracts to be reasonably fresh. You also want the grains your steeping to be fresh. Don't purchase several kits and have them hang around for very long. Unless everything in the kit that counts on freshness is vacuum packed that is (grains, hops, etc.).

Stop the 1,2,3 method as your standard... Let your hydrometer, and taste buds, tell you when a brew is ready for bottle/keg. The advise of tossing instruction sheets once it tells you to pitch the yeast is very sound. Unless you're able to ferment at the perfect temperature for the batch, and yeast, you can't use a calendar to determine when a brew is actually ready/done. Even with tight fermentation temperature control, you need to test the batches to KNOW when it's done/ready. I know of breweries that have tight fermentation temperature control that still have a range of time that a batch will take. That's with correct yeast pitching rates too.

I would suspect that the major factor/contributor for your sweet finishing batches has more to do with the extract your using, water, or poor oxygenation of the wort. Try purchasing filtered water, or get a top notch water filter added to your system. I have one and never have an issue when I use that water.

People can suggest all kinds of things, but YOU need to go through the process of elimination on them. Otherwise, it's all just guesswork.

 

[cullen]

Maybe it's not a matter of the beer being too sweet - maybe it's not sufficiently bitter?

 

[mcaple1]

or you could use dry yeast....no starter needed....don't even need to rehydrate...works for me...great beer.

 

[djfriesen]

I don't know much about extract, as I started with AG by accident. But, from what I know, LME is very dense and will sink to the bottom of your kettle almost instantly. If your wort is boiling, you can bet the bottom of the kettle is significantly hotter than that. I would imagine it will carmelize very quickly.

In an effort to knock this out, you may want to get together with a local brewing club (assuming there's one in your area). Either watch an experienced extract brewer do his/her thing, or invite one over to help with one of your days. Should be pretty illuminating.

 

[Golddiggie]

Maybe it's not a matter of the beer being too sweet - maybe it's not sufficiently bitter?

Kits, typically (at least the better designed ones), include enough bittering hops to get the batch at least close to properly balanced. But, without knowing which kits he's used, and what hops, the AA%, boil time, etc., it's difficult to say.

Personally, I used kits for my first three batches, slightly modifying the first two, heavily modifying the third, before going to my own recipes. I use software to help get the balance where I want it to be, with each batch/recipe.

Oh and mcaple1, try reading the post where the OP gives his process/steps...