Sweet Daddy Vlad - RIS

[toddo97]

Brewing my Sweet Daddy Vlad today, I cold steeped 1.75 lb of dark grains overnight in 3 liters of water, the result was black as night and as thick as motor oil. After squeezing out the grain bags I dunk sparged them in 500ml of fresh water and added to the pre-boil wort. The taste of the cold brew was rich and roasty without the acidic bite so I hope this will require less aging. It also had considerable body due to dextrines and coated the back of a spoon like maple syrup, but with very little apparent sweetness. To compensate for the slight decrease in efficiency due to the cold steeping I added .75 lb of swaen coffee malt 190L to the mash. Pre-boil volume is 7.75 gallons @ 1.070. I'm going to boil until I have 5.5 gallons, let's see where the FG lands.
View attachment 587491

You'll damage your engine if you keep driving around with oil that color. Looking good!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Quick update, the kraeusen died down after a couple of days, then I noticed some dark, granular material hanging just below the surface, then the other day some white matter starting to appear in one area, looked a bit like soap scum. I gave the fermenter a very gentle rock to observe how it moved, and it seems like it might be forming a pellicle. The next day the white stuff has spread lightly across the surface but then seems to be staying the same. I thought it could be mold, but it is absolutely not fuzzy looking. I am meticulous about sanitation evidenced by 24 batches so far and not a single infection but I dunno what else to call this. I doubt a wild sour RIS would be very tasty, but I'm willing to let this play out and see.

 

[jturman35]

Probably end up being the best beer your ever made!

 

[Jayjay1976]

Probably end up being the best beer your ever made!

I posted pics over in the 'post your infection' thread, just a few comments so far but also encouraging. Thanks @jturman35

 

[LoneTreeFarms]

I'd rack it to a smaller vessel with less free air space.

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'd rack it to a smaller vessel with less free air space.

Yeah a 7 gallon fermenter was the only vessel I had available. If I had it to do again I would have added water and enough dme to hit 6 gallons at 1.120 and nearly filled the fermenter. Next weekend I'll be bottling a 1.060 belgian stout to free up a 6 gallon fermenter, I'll rack the RIS onto some charred oak and a pound of bourbon-stewed raisins.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Just now sampling the Belgian stout. I've had it in a heated chamber at 85f since last sunday but it's still only about 2/3 the way there. Delicious flavor with chocolate, raisins, and a nice maple note on the nose with a subtle smokey flavor, and the toasted and bourbon-soaked oak bring a really balanced tannic character. I don't have a very sophisticated palate but I do think I detect soft fruity esters and a hint of nutmeg. This is BY FAR the best beer I've ever brewed, and it's only the practice beer for my sweet daddy vlad RIS. Wow. I'm humbled by the result. 1 bottle down, 59 to go.

 

[Jayjay1976]

My niece got married on Saturday up in Michigan, I took along 2 dozen bottles of the Belgian practice stout for the after party and it was a huge hit! My sister and her husband are pretty serious beer travelers and she is really into stouts, she couldn't stop going on about the oaky, smoked maple, and bourbon flavors. It was really smooth considering it had barely been in the bottle long enough to carb up. Now I'm starting to get excited anticipating the RIS, it's just about ready to transfer to secondary where I will age it on toasted oak soaked in bourbon for a month or two before bottling.

 

[Jayjay1976]

My RIS has been in primary for two months tomorrow; time to bottle or should I rack it to secondary? I'll check the FG tonight and post an update. I also chickened out on adding oak cubes and raisins, kinda just want to evaluate the base recipe and not jack it up with additional flavors. My 1.060 stout came out good but the toasted oak, smoked maple syrup and Belgian yeast kinda clashed.

 

[toddo97]

When you decide it's time to bottle, why not rack off a gallon onto the cubes and raisins for a while and see how it turns out?

 

[Jayjay1976]

When you decide it's time to bottle, why not rack off a gallon onto the cubes and raisins for a while and see how it turns out?

Well I do have a 1 gallon fermenter that's not busy, and a bag of medium-plus toasted American white oak cubes which should be a bit more subtle than the chips I tried last time. I'll just bake them briefly to sanitize and drop a couple in the fermenter with a handful of bourbon soaked raisins. A small secondary fermentation will scavenge any O2 and purge the headspace, then I'll let it age a few weeks.

 

[toddo97]

Well I do have a 1 gallon fermenter that's not busy, and a bag of medium-plus toasted American white oak cubes which should be a bit more subtle than the chips I tried last time. I'll just bake them briefly to sanitize and drop a couple in the fermenter with a handful of bourbon soaked raisins. A small secondary fermentation will scavenge any O2 and purge the headspace, then I'll let it age a few weeks.

sounds tasty

 

[Jayjay1976]

I skipped the raisins and opted to soak the oak cubes in dark rum to extract flavors, I'll add 12oz of the rum to the bottling bucket with the priming sugar. I hope the residual sugar in the rum doesn't lead to overcarbed bottles. I'll aim low for the priming charge, 1.7 volumes. The oak cubes and rum are on my stir plate to speed up extraction since I didn't plan ahead, hopefully 12 hours is long enough. I chose bacardi black since its already oaked, though it is pretty mild.

 

[toddo97]

How long has it been in the fermenter? I don't know enough about the sugar in liquor to give advice about that but I would be a little worried about overcarbing. Especially with a RIS, if anything if be shooting for undercarbing. You'll probably be fine though-it's just beer

 

[Jayjay1976]

According to Bacardi's website, Bacardi Black has .6g sugar per ounce so 12 ounces of rum only contains .254 oz sugar. I'll subtract that from the priming charge to compensate.

 

[Jayjay1976]

How long has it been in the fermenter? I don't know enough about the sugar in liquor to give advice about that but I would be a little worried about overcarbing. Especially with a RIS, if anything if be shooting for undercarbing. You'll probably be fine though-it's just beer

It's been in primary since September 9 with an OG of 1.106 and an expected FG of 1.025; 10.6% ABV. I'll bottle it tomorrow morning in 22oz bombers to pass out as gifts for friends and family with the advice to age it several weeks before enjoying. I'll also have a bunch of 12oz bottles for them as 'testers' to judge the aging before opening the larger bottles. I have a ton of champagne bottles, just didn't manage to get stoppers and cages. This year it's amateur hour but next Christmas I'll be on the ball with aged, ready-to-drink bottles and I'll even label them.

 

[toddo97]

According to Bacardi's website, Bacardi Black has .6g sugar per ounce so 12 ounces of rum only contains .254 oz sugar. I'll subtract that from the priming charge to compensate.
View attachment 603363

Good plan

 

[toddo97]

It's been in primary since September 9 with an OG of 1.106 and an expected FG of 1.025; 10.6% ABV. I'll bottle it tomorrow morning in 22oz bombers to pass out as gifts for friends and family with the advice to age it several weeks before enjoying. I'll also have a bunch of 12oz bottles for them as 'testers' to judge the aging before opening the larger bottles. I have a ton of champagne bottles, just didn't manage to get stoppers and cages. This year it's amateur hour but next Christmas I'll be on the ball with aged, ready-to-drink bottles and I'll even label them.

Can't wait to hear how they taste after a few weeks. I'm going to try my first RIS as my next batch and am shooting for something like a cake

 

[Jayjay1976]

I'm wondering if I need to pitch some CBC-1 bottling/conditioning yeast, since it's been in primary so long and the relatively high ABV.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Can't wait to hear how they taste after a few weeks. I'm going to try my first RIS as my next batch and am shooting for something like a cake

I speak from a position of very little experience, but I recommend using debittered or de-husked dark malt like carafa III and cold steep them, adding the cold steeped extract during the second half of the boil. That way you eliminate the harsh bitter tannins that require extended aging to smooth out. Just mash in all the lighter malts, do your boil and add the dark, syrupy cold steeped extract at the end. Worked really well for me, the extract was thick as motor oil and black as night.

 

[jturman35]

It’s been going since Sept my bet the beer won’t be ready until next October at best.

 

[Jayjay1976]

It’s been going since Sept my bet the beer won’t be ready until next October at best.

Why?

 

[ThirstyPawsHB]

I speak from a position of very little experience, but I recommend using debittered or de-husked dark malt like carafa III and cold steep them, adding the cold steeped extract during the second half of the boil. That way you eliminate the harsh bitter tannins that require extended aging to smooth out. Just mash in all the lighter malts, do your boil and add the dark, syrupy cold steeped extract at the end. Worked really well for me, the extract was thick as motor oil and black as night.

Excellent advice! I've learned over time to only add about 1/3 darks for pH requirements then add rest about 20min before vorlauf. Clearly helps with bitter tannins.

 

[jturman35]

Again speaking from little experience myself both of my 10.5% beers I brewed back in May are still not ready. I did a Bourbon County Stout and a Dark Belgium both are getting better with age but not quite ready. I would think a 10% beer wouldn’t hit its stride until 1-2 years.

 

[Jayjay1976]

Again speaking from little experience myself both of my 10.5% beers I brewed back in May are still not ready. I did a Bourbon County Stout and a Dark Belgium both are getting better with age but not quite ready. I would think a 10% beer wouldn’t hit its stride until 1-2 years.

You're probably right. I need to plan waaay ahead. Nobody likes waiting to enjoy something, instant gratification ala prime same day shipping has become the norm. I should be brewing hefeweizens for gifts I guess.

 

[Big Monk]

Again speaking from little experience myself both of my 10.5% beers I brewed back in May are still not ready. I did a Bourbon County Stout and a Dark Belgium both are getting better with age but not quite ready. I would think a 10% beer wouldn’t hit its stride until 1-2 years.

Wha?! 1-2 years?!

What is it about these beers that requires you to wait that long?

I routinely brew big stouts and big Trappist ales that go grain to glass in 3 weeks and are in great shape by a month and a half grain to glass.

 

[jturman35]

I have had some damn good Belgium Quads and RIS that we’re 1-2 yrs and one that was seven years old. Most of the damn good Abbey Ale or RIS I have had were aged atleast 1-2 years. Just my .02


I brewed a 8% Old Rasputin that was good after a month. Still not a damn good beer I’m talking about a 40+ BJCP kinda beer. My Old Rasputin scored 29. The Quad and RIS that I tasted that were aged were 40+ beers!

 

[Big Monk]

I have had some damn good Belgium Quads and RIS that we’re 1-2 yrs and one that was seven years old. Most of the damn good Abbey Ale or RIS I have had were aged atleast 1-2 years. Just my .02


I brewed a 8% Old Rasputin that was good after a month. Still not a damn good beer I’m taking about 40+ BJCP kinda beer. My Old Rasputin scored 29. The Quad and RIS that I tasted that were aged were 40+ beers!

Just food for thought and to promote discussion:

Was it really the aging that made them better beers? I’d contest that. Not saying you didn’t make a great beer, just saying that if aging brings about a melding of flavors that’s desirable, then why not try to adjust so that it’s ready sooner?

I always try to plan a beer from a recipe, attenuation, ABV, etc. standpoint so that it will be the best possible version of that beer as rapidly as possible. For Trappist style ales in particular, I’ve had to buck some well established trends with regards to packaging, carbonation, and recipe.

Keep in mind that I don’t typically brew anything over 9% unless I go for a straight up Rochefort 10 clone.

Don’t take this post as argumentative or judgmental. I’ve just always been a bit iffy on the whole aging thing.

Final thought: Think of all the big beers you like, commercially speaking, and then realize that they don’t have to be aged for 1-2 years to be delicious. Granted I might sit on a boozy bottle of Rochefort 10 for a few months but when I get a bottle of Westvleteren or St. Bernadus, or big Imperial Stouts I can drink them right away and enjoy them.

I’ve always been concerned that aging in homebrewing means that someone could have changed something about thier brewing process to produce a beer that was ready for consumption quicker.

Just my thoughts.

 

[ApolloSimcoe]

I'm wondering if I need to pitch some CBC-1 bottling/conditioning yeast, since it's been in primary so long and the relatively high ABV.

Do this. I made the mistake of not doing this with my first two high ABV beers. I did a secondary on port soaked oak chips for 6 months. The beer never carbed up fully. Its delicious though

 

[Jayjay1976]

Do this. I made the mistake of not doing this with my first two high ABV beers. I did a secondary on port soaked oak chips for 6 months. The beer never carbed up fully. Its delicious though

Do I need to pitch the full packet into 5 gallons of beer? Seems like a lot of dry yeast.