Summer beer/cream ale ideas

[dave35]

I'm trying in producing something refreshing for summer. Jamil's cream ale recipe:

5# pils
5# two-row
1# flaked corn
1# sugar

~20 IBU hops, ideally non-citrusy

seems like a reasonable starting point, but ideally I would like something with a bit more mouthfeel and head retention while still being refreshing. I was thinking of adding a small amount of flaked oats or rye, and maybe replacing the sugar with honey to get a wee bit of that flavour. Pils malt is hard for me to get, so my recipe would be something like:

9# two-row
2# flaked corn
1# oats
1# honey

This would give a bit more body, so I'm adding more corn -- that should dry things out again I think.

This leaves me to figure out a hop schedule.

Maybe there would be enough added body with the oats to stand up to a bit of Amarillo or something else citrusy if I can keep the IBUs about 20-25?

Do these goals make sense? Can I get enough protein from the oats to give a creamy mouthfeel while keeping the dry, refreshing finish and low FG?

What do mash temperatures do to oats and corn?

Yeast ideas? I've only used Nottingham and S04 before, not sure if Nottingham is dry/clean enough for this style. I can maintain under 65F upstairs and 55F in the basement, so I am thinking of keeping things at 65 during fermentation and keeping it in secondary a couple of weeks. I'm not averse to using a liquid yeast if it's something I would save and keep using for other ales though.

This is my first time designing a recipe (several decent batches done already) so constructive criticism is appreciated.

If it makes any difference, I am making 5gal batches with a BIAB system.

 

[Yooper]

Oats don't produce much body- instead, they give a "creamy" or "slick" mouthfeel, and feel sort of oily. That's why they make a wonderful addition to something like a stout where a slick creamy mouthfeel is awesome, but not so much in a light hybrid beer. I'd ditch that for sure.

If you want body and mouthfeel, how about adding some carapils?

 

[paperairplane]

That's going to end fairly dry, I would probably mash around 150F and use something like S05 for a nice clean, crisp beer. You can go a lot of directions with hops - something like saaz or halleratauer would be nice, or you can hammer in some late addition cascade, chinook, etc.

 

[JayDubWill]

Mouthfeel will come primarily from the mash temp. Mashing higher will give it a fuller mouthfeel, around 156-158 is a good temp for a full body beer. You have some contradictory ideas going on, most people associate thin beers with summer. Oats and rye don't necessarily sound like refreshing summer beer either, but that may just be me. If you did a Rye IPA you would be more in the ballpark but you want to keep the IBU's low. Have you considered a Honey Wheat beer? Regardless I would probably drop the oats. Keep in mind adding sugar/honey will thin out the mouthfeel a bit.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Yoopers is spot-on with the use of carapils in your cream ale.

 

[tdbc2011]

I have a Honey Ale that has been great each time I have brewed it.
9 lb 2 row
1/4 lb honey malt
1/2 lb Carapils
1 oz Cascade 60 min
1 oz Willamette 5 min
1pt Honey at flameout

For me the 1/4 honey malt is enough for a good amount of flavor. The Cascade does not give any citrus flavor. FG with US-05 was 1.011 with a SG of 1.062.
I will brew this soon so that I can keep on tap for the summer.

 

[dave35]

Thanks all. It sounds like my dry finish/thicker body combination doesn't really make sense (and wouldn't be refreshing), and oats don't really fit.

New plan: drop the oats, add a bit of wheat and carapils, keep the corn and honey, stop calling it a cream ale.

What hops are going to work well with a honey wheat sort of beer?

 

[dave35]

Actually I might as well try tdbc's Honey Ale recipe, that sounds like the style I actually wanted.

 

[Puddlethumper]

If you want a honey ale then that is the way to go. But if you want a great cream ale I think I'd drop the honey and the wheat as well. A really simple recipe of 8# domestic 2-row, 8 oz. carapils and 2# flaked corn makes a very steady grain bill and a refreshing beer with good mouthfeel and head retention. Hops can be a straight Cascade at 1 oz. 60 min. and 1 oz. 2 min. or mix it up with Cascade for bittering and Willamette or Mt Hood for aroma. I've heard some guys like Liberty for aroma but haven't tried it myself. Yeast can be WLP-001 American Ale, US-05 or BRY-97. Mash at 152-154F, single infusion and ferment at 65-67F 2 weeks then keg. You've got a crowd pleaser that you will enjoy and even the most die-hard BMC drinker will be going back for seconds.

 

[bigdaddybrew]

I use a pound of flaked barley in my cream ale, still dry and refreshing but has a fluffy white head. Just avoid the late hops in my recipe. I like the citrus aroma in my summer beer...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/summer-citra-cerveza-449595/

 

[Puddlethumper]

I use a pound of flaked barley in my cream ale, still dry and refreshing but has a fluffy white head. Just avoid the late hops in my recipe. I like the citrus aroma in my summer beer...
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/summer-citra-cerveza-449595/

I'm having trouble imagining what flaked barley would do to a cream ale. Can you taste any of it or does it just impact the head?

It does sound interesting. I might risk an insurrection among the "troops" here and try it as a variant on my regular recipe. Have been making this same one about once a month for well over a year now and still can't seem to keep any on hand. (I've got about a half keg in the keezer and another batch in the fermenter right now) I'm a little hesitant to make major changes to this recipe.

 

[dave35]

Okay, I'll start start with Puddlethumper's recipe stragiht first (I think the Carapils should do what I was looking for originally) and experiment with different hops and maybe the flaked barley idea later on. Bigdaddy's recipe sounds lovely -- is it any trouble mashing 3# corn though?

Both recipes sound like they'll hits that BMC/craft beer drinker intersection adequately.

 

[Weezy]

Flaked barley is something that I use often in small beers. It adds body and a sort of creaminess to beers. No real noticeable grain flavor. It will help dry out the beer if you use a lot of it.

 

[blakelyc]

For something a little different, I did a cream ale last year with Australian Helga hops. They have a very similar character to Hallertauer Mittelfrüh, but with oddly pleasant faint undertones of black pepper, tea, and yogurt. Sounds strange, but it was really good and just different enough to give people a little something unexpected.

 

[Nil]

I use canned corn (just water and salt added). This boosts the flavor. If you use home-grown corn is even better. I processed the corn is a blender/mixer, add to the striking water and then to the mash tun. Add a little more water than usual (i.e if you plan to use 1.25 qt/lb, use 1.5 qt/lb). Depend on the grain, you may need up to 2qt/lb.

Thanks, Nil

 

[Puddlethumper]

Both recipes sound like they'll hits that BMC/craft beer drinker intersection adequately.

Never heard it put that way, but it is spot on. Thanks for the chuckle.

 

[ericbw]

Any thoughts on using rice instead of corn?

Any thoughts on torrified wheat in place of the flaked barley?

 

[Puddlethumper]

Any thoughts on using rice instead of corn?

Any thoughts on torrified wheat in place of the flaked barley?

There's another thread that has been going on for a while discussing a cream ale recipe that uses some rice in it. Here's a link to it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/

I have no idea what torrified wheat would do to it, but it might be worth a try.

I considered adding rice to my recipe, but I'm thinking that replacing any barley with rice would only push the finished beer closer to the edge of becoming a BMC taste-alike. It's already about as light a beer as I care to brew. Granted, it is one of those personal preference things, though.

While considering trying the Cream of 3 Crops recipe I asked my wife, who is not much of a beer drinker but does like the one I make, if she thought our Goldfinch Cream Ale could use lightening up. She was pretty quick and emphatic that I should leave that recipe well enough alone. I'm going to go with her advice.

 

[ericbw]

There's another thread that has been going on for a while discussing a cream ale recipe that uses some rice in it. Here's a link to it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/

I have no idea what torrified wheat would do to it, but it might be worth a try.

I considered adding rice to my recipe, but I'm thinking that replacing any barley with rice would only push the finished beer closer to the edge of becoming a BMC taste-alike. It's already about as light a beer as I care to brew. Granted, it is one of those personal preference things, though.

While considering trying the Cream of 3 Crops recipe I asked my wife, who is not much of a beer drinker but does like the one I make, if she thought our Goldfinch Cream Ale could use lightening up. She was pretty quick and emphatic that I should leave that recipe well enough alone. I'm going to go with her advice.

So you're saying that rice would make it lighter than corn? Or if you replaced even more barley with rice? I wanted to see if I could do something lager-like, and that might be the key to making it lighter and crisp.

I have used torrified wheat in a grapefruit pale, and it has a nice thick head, which I attribute (maybe wrongly) to the wheat. Other than that, it doesn't seem at all wheaty.

 

[pjj2ba]

So you're saying that rice would make it lighter than corn? Or if you replaced even more barley with rice? I wanted to see if I could do something lager-like, and that might be the key to making it lighter and crisp.

I have used torrified wheat in a grapefruit pale, and it has a nice thick head, which I attribute (maybe wrongly) to the wheat. Other than that, it doesn't seem at all wheaty.

Pound for pound, rice will give you a lighter tasting beer than corn. Yes, torrified wheat is great for promoting head AND BODY. When I brew beers that are crisp I like to add ingredients that have higher levels of proteins. This allows one to mash a little cooler to get some crispness, but the extra protein keeps it from tasting too thin.

 

[dave35]

Thanks pij2ba. Synthesis so far: It sounds like it is possible to produce a beer that's dry and crisp (with low mash temp) without being excessively thin, using either torrified wheat or flaked barley for protein and very light crystal like carapils to provide a small amount of unfermentables, and it's possible to vary the dryness by increasing corn and especially rice adjuncts.

Now formulating a recipe incorporating mostly two-row, some corn, a small amount of rice, some flaked barley, and some carapils, which should allow me to mash pretty low and wind up with something that's still tasty. This is a more complicated project than I expected but this has been a very informative thread.

 

[Puddlethumper]

I appreciate and agree with pbj's comments.

This leads me suggest that you consider making one or two batches of a very simple recipe. Call it a baseline if you like. Then see what happens when you sub or add various ingredients.


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[Puddlethumper]

Just as an aside on this topic, if I understand it correctly the majority of BMC recipes contain a light base malt and copious amounts of rice. Only very small quantities of other grains, if any other grains are used at all.

And in reflecting on the earlier comments about torrified wheat, did you notice any haziness in the beer because of the wheat addition?

 

[ericbw]

Just as an aside on this topic, if I understand it correctly the majority of BMC recipes contain a light base malt and copious amounts of rice. Only very small quantities of other grains, if any other grains are used at all.

And in reflecting on the earlier comments about torrified wheat, did you notice any haziness in the beer because of the wheat addition?

It was not hazy like a wheat beer, but it was only a small amount. In fact, over time, the beer got very clear.

I don't know how it compares to flaked barley, other than I think the barley is cheaper.

 

[JDGator]

There's another thread that has been going on for a while discussing a cream ale recipe that uses some rice in it. Here's a link to it:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f62/cream-three-crops-cream-ale-66503/

I have no idea what torrified wheat would do to it, but it might be worth a try.

I considered adding rice to my recipe, but I'm thinking that replacing any barley with rice would only push the finished beer closer to the edge of becoming a BMC taste-alike. It's already about as light a beer as I care to brew. Granted, it is one of those personal preference things, though.

While considering trying the Cream of 3 Crops recipe I asked my wife, who is not much of a beer drinker but does like the one I make, if she thought our Goldfinch Cream Ale could use lightening up. She was pretty quick and emphatic that I should leave that recipe well enough alone. I'm going to go with her advice.

i always keep a keg full of Cream of Three Crops. all my BMC friends love it. i usually give a few cases away to the father in law around Christmas too.

 

[dave35]

How about yeast choices for this style? I've been using dry S04 or Nottingham for everything so far, and S04 fermented at the low end of the range doesn't seem to add much flavour, but might not attenuate enough. Would S05 fermented in the low 60s work? Or still too much flavour?

I don't have a stir plate and have avoided liquid yeasts and starters so far for simplicity but am not opposed to getting more involved with the buggy side of brewing if it's required for this application. (Need to figure this out for weird Belgian yeasts I want to use eventually.)

 

[JDGator]

I've just brewed with liquid yeast for the first time too. Its really not all that hard and only takes a few minutes to do. I'll still use dry yeast but not nearly as often. Too many liquids to try out!


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[JayDubWill]

How about yeast choices for this style? I've been using dry S04 or Nottingham for everything so far, and S04 fermented at the low end of the range doesn't seem to add much flavour, but might not attenuate enough. Would S05 fermented in the low 60s work? Or still too much flavour?

I don't have a stir plate and have avoided liquid yeasts and starters so far for simplicity but am not opposed to getting more involved with the buggy side of brewing if it's required for this application. (Need to figure this out for weird Belgian yeasts I want to use eventually.)

S05 in the low 60's is known for imparting a fruity peach flavor. Best to ferment it at 68-70F unless your looking for peach.

 

[Puddlethumper]

How about yeast choices for this style? I've been using dry S04 or Nottingham for everything so far, and S04 fermented at the low end of the range doesn't seem to add much flavour, but might not attenuate enough. Would S05 fermented in the low 60s work? Or still too much flavour?

I've had good results with BRY-97 at 66F +/-. The batch I'm serving now was US-05 at about the same temps. The BRY-97 seems to be slow starting but appearances are deceiving because it attenuates well and drops cleanly. I've used the BRY-97 on the majority of batches I've made of this recipe.

Most American Ale yeasts, dry or liquid, would work fine as long as you observe their temperature requirements. Haven't tried Notty, but because it is such a great strain I wouldn't be afraid to try it nor would I be surprised to learn that it performs well here too.

 

[shadows69]

Wlp001, S05, 1056 work wonderfully for this type of cream ale. I tried notty and I didn't think it was as good. S04 I'm not a fan of. 1056 is my fav but S05 and wlp001 are pretty much the samething.

 

[Puddlethumper]

Wlp001, S05, 1056 work wonderfully for this type of cream ale. I tried notty and I didn't think it was as good. S04 I'm not a fan of. 1056 is my fav but S05 and wlp001 are pretty much the samething.

I haven't tried 1056 yet. What makes it your fav?