Successfully Growing Indoors

[booherbg]

I'm following your progress, thank you for the updates. I have an idea for my own set up. I have a small back yard but I'm not sure I'm ready for permanent hop planting and the set up of a trellis. I'm also a creative gardener and love a unique project.

What are your thoughts about using your system outside? I would like the benefit of home grown hops, do not mind obsessive pruning (maintenance of a single vine), and also the benefit of not having hops running up poles.

I think it would be neat to have a couple of boxes in my back yard set up to soak sun light and keep the hops in a small space with chicken wire. What are your thoughts?

1. You mention that you plan to cut back the root ball before the next cycle. I'm wondering how to handle this with an outside set up. Perhaps with buckets like you've got.

2. I don't imagine there is any way to induce flowering early if I'm relying on Sol? Thoughts? I suppose I could manually cover with tarp or something. Hmm.

3. Could you explain more about how you train the plant? You say it grows 4' then you train it back down. What does that mean? Do you let it grow up, then you physically wind it back down through the chicken wire?

4. The other alternative I'm considering is a setup where I concoct some kind of 3D chicken wire lattice with enough surface area to "hold" a 25' hops vine in a small 5'x3'x3' area. Thoughts on how this would look?

I love the idea of keeping the hops out of the permanent soil, at eye level where I can interact with it and not have to tear down for harvest, and outside in the natural climate. I think your system may have some use outside of the basement.

Thanks!

 

[Brad1775]

I used to grow weed, I still have 10,000 watts of set up, enough to harvest... hmmmmmmmm maybe 20 pounds of hops. it would cost over $3,000 in materials alone... buuuuut...... if I can use my hydro nutrients to make the hops super flavorful like I know how to do, then, it might be worth it.

Also, weed growing smells nearly identicle to hops growing, a cop would probably think they were the same and get confused!!!! the thing is they are smelling the heat on all the equipment, the soil, the gases exchanged with the plant, see the resins don't smell THAT much except the last week of flowering and during drying, then it will smell..... crazy.

 

[ASublimeDay]

I'm following your progress, thank you for the updates. I have an idea for my own set up. I have a small back yard but I'm not sure I'm ready for permanent hop planting and the set up of a trellis. I'm also a creative gardener and love a unique project.

What are your thoughts about using your system outside? I would like the benefit of home grown hops, do not mind obsessive pruning (maintenance of a single vine), and also the benefit of not having hops running up poles.

I think it would be neat to have a couple of boxes in my back yard set up to soak sun light and keep the hops in a small space with chicken wire. What are your thoughts?

1. You mention that you plan to cut back the root ball before the next cycle. I'm wondering how to handle this with an outside set up. Perhaps with buckets like you've got.

2. I don't imagine there is any way to induce flowering early if I'm relying on Sol? Thoughts? I suppose I could manually cover with tarp or something. Hmm.

3. Could you explain more about how you train the plant? You say it grows 4' then you train it back down. What does that mean? Do you let it grow up, then you physically wind it back down through the chicken wire?

4. The other alternative I'm considering is a setup where I concoct some kind of 3D chicken wire lattice with enough surface area to "hold" a 25' hops vine in a small 5'x3'x3' area. Thoughts on how this would look?

I love the idea of keeping the hops out of the permanent soil, at eye level where I can interact with it and not have to tear down for harvest, and outside in the natural climate. I think your system may have some use outside of the basement.


Thanks!

Thanks for your interest! It's been a very fun project and I plan to keep you guys posted all the way through the first, and hopefully many future, harvests.

1. Cutting the root ball has been ditched. I also don't plan to switch to hydroponics, which was my original plan. The system is actually pretty cost-effective, depending on the size of harvests (I need about 5 ounces a month for it to pay for the cost of running the lights per month, and I hope to harvest every 60-75 days, so I doubt it'll be a problem). The cost of hydroponic nutrients is a bit much, and I like working with soil. There are roots growing out of the bottom of the bin into the automatic watering tubs (should've seen this coming). I'm going to leave the roots in the 25 gallon tub (in the soil) intact and just trim the roots growing out of the bottom a bit. I'm going to keep them long enough to be in the water with an air stone to keep them oxygenated. Hopefully this limits their sense of being root-bound by the 25 gallon tub. See earlier pictures for the self-watering system. There is also a lot of info on building self-watering systems on youtube. They're very inexpensive to build. My current set-up goes through a LOT of water. I'm going to set up an outdoor rainwater catcher soon. (Free soil from the worms/compost, free water from the sky!)

2. Early flowering outside is very difficult. It'd have to be a light-proof tarp and if you forgot to or were unable to cover them just a few nights out of the month you'd confuse the plants vegging/flowering cycle. I'm not sure what it'd do to a hops plant, but I'd imagine it could stunt their flowering and/or affect the quality of the flowers. I have had the plants on a very strict 16/8 (light/dark) hour cycle during vegging and 12/12 hours during flowering. As you can see, they started flowering very quickly under this cycle.

3. Yes, training the plant is basically running it along the chicken wire. When I was using the wire, I was bending it back down every 1'. I'm doing 4' now because I'm training it along twine (chicken wire is full, the twine is the next layer). Training it along the chicken wire should be done while the growth is new and supple. I've broken a few bines by letting them get too tall and thick before bending them back down. It should be done as often as possible. Its a bit like sewing, except the bine is the needle/thread and the chicken wire is the clothing.

4. There are a lot of outdoor set-ups that don't simply use a horizontal pole. My concern about metal chicken wire outside is how quickly it might rust. There are plenty of netting/twine alternatives.

I think its definitely feasible to apply outdoors, but the reason my system is able to sustain itself in limited space/pot size is because I flowered early, thereby keeping the vegetative stage short. This limited the space requirements, both for the bines and for the root system. My bines are the product of one month of intense june/july sun during the vegging cycle, whereas outdoor bines reach their indoor-unmanageable size because of 3-4 months of vegging.

You'll need a bigger chicken wire/twine screen, and based on what I've read about hops outdoors in pots/buckets, at least a 25 gallon pot per plant.

Also, you mentioned the box. This wouldn't really be necessary outdoors. The plants are in the box inside because I want to keep the light reflecting off the walls. Outside the sun comes from different angles, and a box would block light at certain times of the day.

Let me know if you have any other questions. Based on my rambling, I could obviously talk about this stuff all day

 

[ASublimeDay]

I used to grow weed, I still have 10,000 watts of set up, enough to harvest... hmmmmmmmm maybe 20 pounds of hops. it would cost over $3,000 in materials alone... buuuuut...... if I can use my hydro nutrients to make the hops super flavorful like I know how to do, then, it might be worth it.

Also, weed growing smells nearly identicle to hops growing, a cop would probably think they were the same and get confused!!!! the thing is they are smelling the heat on all the equipment, the soil, the gases exchanged with the plant, see the resins don't smell THAT much except the last week of flowering and during drying, then it will smell..... crazy.

10,000 watts would cost nearly $400 per month to run in my area. If you were harvesting 20 lbs of hops every 60 days, you'd be upside down by over $700 per harvest. That's not factoring in the insane amount of expensive hydroponic nutrients a plant large enough to produce 20 lbs would be sucking up every week. (Mine go through a half-gallon of water a day)

I've always used soil. I'm knowledgeable on hydroponics but if you know what you're doing with soil mixing and fertilizing schedules, plus the addition of a super-rich compost, there isn't as colossal of a difference as hydroponics proponents would have us believe. The "side-by-side" comparison grows are usually done with top-tier hydro systems and nutrients, and the soil they're comparing it to is some off-the-shelf miracle gro crap. Yes, good hydroponics will beat good soil everyday of the week, but for a product that goes for $2-$3 per oz, I'm not willing to go upside down on nutrients every month.

The nice thing about this system is that if I continue to use it, it will eventually pay for itself and even save me money in the long-run. I need it to produce 5 oz a month to pay for the cost of running it, and anything over that is free hops/paying off the initial cost of the set-up.

Since hops and their cousin don't smell all that similar when they're a finished product, how would they smell so similar when growing? If this were the case, wouldn't you all have cops coming to your yards looking for illegal plants? I'd think your neighbors would be a bit concerned if the reeking stench of an illegal plant was wafting over from your yard two months out of the year.

 

[ASublimeDay]

16 days into flowering. Raising the height of the box has allowed them to grow a lot more vertically and they seem happy with that. Ignore the black tape in the back. Its temporary; I'll be patching it over tonight. It's where the old fan used to be before I raised the box.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Burr

 

[ASublimeDay]

Here is a view of the chicken wire layer. Each main bine has about 15 feet of growth condensed in that layer and heavily over-lapping one another. They'll be allowed to grow a few feet vertically now that the box has been raised. The very bottom leaves have died off but there are several healthy layers that the light has been powerful enough to penetrate. The white spots are sawdust left over from construction. I need to trim off dead leaves tonight

 

[jester5120]

This is an awesome experiment. .

 

[ASublimeDay]

I've got cones that are about 3/4 of an inch, and there are a lot of them. Unfortunately, the vines have become such a mess overlapping and wrapping around each other that it's going to be damn near impossible to distinguish which cones are which without hacking them down and going to work pulling them apart from the chicken wire (next cycle I'm thinking three tomato cages...make it much easier to keep each crown to one bine and to differentiate which is which).

Will the hops continue to produce as long as I keep them under a 12/12 lighting cycle or will there come a day where I can cut all the vines at once and have all or most of the cones ready at or around the same time?

Would it make for a decent beer to just have a salad of Nugget, Chinook, and Cascade for all three stages of additions and for dry-hopping? This is assuming they're in approximately even quantities.

 

[ASublimeDay]

This is an awesome experiment. .

Thanks! Its been really fun and I'm looking forward to the final product

 

[booherbg]

I've got cones that are about 3/4 of an inch, and there are a lot of them. Unfortunately, the vines have become such a mess overlapping and wrapping around each other that it's going to be damn near impossible to distinguish which cones are which without hacking them down and going to work pulling them apart from the chicken wire (next cycle I'm thinking three tomato cages...make it much easier to keep each crown to one bine and to differentiate which is which).

Will the hops continue to produce as long as I keep them under a 12/12 lighting cycle or will there come a day where I can cut all the vines at once and have all or most of the cones ready at or around the same time?

Would it make for a decent beer to just have a salad of Nugget, Chinook, and Cascade for all three stages of additions and for dry-hopping? This is assuming they're in approximately even quantities.

If you don't mind not knowing the IBU, that'd be just fine. I'd try to separate out the cascade if you can since you'd want that one for late addition and dry hopping. But worst case you'll get a tasty beer . I'd be conservative with the hops in case you get more nugget/chinook than you realize as they have substantial bitterness. Or just use late-addition 20min, in case you go overboard (less bitterness the later you add hops)

 

[booherbg]

cidly24, i'm not sure how you mean?

LED grow lights certain work as indoor garden lamps. The problem is that the good ones (high output) are expensive. Here's a small one for $135 (90 watts, 1980 lumens). http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=310

 

[ASublimeDay]

cidly24, i'm not sure how you mean?

LED grow lights certain work as indoor garden lamps. The problem is that the good ones (high output) are expensive. Here's a small one for $135 (90 watts, 1980 lumens). http://www.ledwholesalers.com/store/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=310

Agreed. They're energy efficient and give off very little heat comparatively, but for the 50,000 lumens I get out of my 400w HPS, you'd pay an absolute fortune for LED lights.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Taken 22 days into flowering: A side view of the top of the canopy

 

[ASublimeDay]

The top of the canopy. The vines haven't had to be trained for a week or so now. They just climb over eachother and weigh each other down to the surface of the canopy. Plus they're flowering so intensely that growth has slowed a lot.

 

[ASublimeDay]

A side-view. The very bottom leaves have died off, but theres such a healthy canopy (12" on the left, 18" on the right) that it hasn't affected photosynthesis at all. Plants continue to exhibit a healthy green color, thick bines, and are producing burrs and cones rapidly.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Burrs everywhere!

 

[ASublimeDay]

The "crab theory": when one bine tries to rise up and make something of herself, the others just drag her down

 

[ASublimeDay]

One of about 35 cones. 22 days into flowering

 

[simonbones]

Does this make your house smell pretty hoppy?

 

[ASublimeDay]

I'm currently 31 days into flowering and I have cones ranging from the size of a quarter to much bigger (safe to assume these are the cascades?), and I smell absolutely nothing except a faint pollen smell when I open the box. If you bury your nose in some of the bigger cones you can smell hops but smell hasn't been a concern at all.

I'll post some pics on Monday. They're really starting to put out some impressive cones.

 

[starman]

I wonder how fast the plants can switch back to veg growth after harvesting? if they need a 'winter' dormancy period before going full grow mode that could slow you down. On the other hand, my cascades seemed to keep pumping out burs very late into the season last year - maybe its possible to keep them in a permanent flower mode if light and temps stay in the sweet spot.

I was skeptical before but youve made very cool progress.

 

[ASublimeDay]

I wonder how fast the plants can switch back to veg growth after harvesting? if they need a 'winter' dormancy period before going full grow mode that could slow you down. On the other hand, my cascades seemed to keep pumping out burs very late into the season last year - maybe its possible to keep them in a permanent flower mode if light and temps stay in the sweet spot.

I was skeptical before but youve made very cool progress.

Thanks for the compliment!

I plan to harvest, let them finish flowering, harvest again, then switch to about 7 hours of light for a week or two to let them move their resources back to the roots, then chop them down and re-veg, this time with a four-week 24-hour light cycle, instead of 16 hours.

The chicken wire is a flat-out mess, and harvesting is going to be tedious. I was also unable to limit each plant to one bine once I got into flowering. The chicken wire is too close to the soil and chopping excess bines became nearly impossible once the wire got filled. I'm thinking three tomato cages for next time. Training the plants all around, up, and down the cages. It'll make for an easy harvest, more effective light distribution, and easier access to limit the growth to one bine. I'll also be able to differentiate varieties more effectively.

That said, the hops are plentiful, and what I assume to be the cascades are huge. None of them are ready yet. Makes me wonder just how big those cascades will get!

 

[CorralitosGrown99]

Great job Sublime! I can't wait to see how it turns out.

I am going to be starting my own alternative hop growing method this season, and hopefully I'll be able to document a grow log as well as you have.

Would obtaining cuttings from a local hopyard yield viable cones on the first harvest or would they need to develop for a year similar to conventional grows?

 

[booherbg]

Great job Sublime! I can't wait to see how it turns out.

I am going to be starting my own alternative hop growing method this season, and hopefully I'll be able to document a grow log as well as you have.

Would obtaining cuttings from a local hopyard yield viable cones on the first harvest or would they need to develop for a year similar to conventional grows?

Considering how the first year is spent on root growth, if you kept the hops root bound and the bottoms trimmed + well fed, I imagine you could get a decent yield the first year. Not a full yield, but better than nothing.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Considering how the first year is spent on root growth, if you kept the hops root bound and the bottoms trimmed + well fed, I imagine you could get a decent yield the first year. Not a full yield, but better than nothing.

Get crowns from Great Lakes Hops. They're already at least a season old.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Okay guys harvest day has come and gone. They flowered and matured fast - about 50 days. Grand total from crown to harvest was about 80 days. Here's the whole chicken wire removed from the box and on a table.

 

[ASublimeDay]

Close-up of the whole canopy

 

[ASublimeDay]

A couple of hops

 

[ASublimeDay]

And one of the big Cascades. These were very fragrant!