Substituting Rice or Honey for Candi/Cane Sugar

[ForRealBeer]

An idea crossed my head on the way home from work today in regards to brewing Dubblel/Trippel recipes, and I thought I might post this to pick the brains of everyone here: we all know Candi sugar is pretty @#$ expensive, and that while Candi sugar (sucrose) is a decent substitute, too much and you might end up with a nice green-apple batch of acetylaldehyde flavored beer.

That made me wonder -- I could make my own Candi sugar (which is at best a PITA) or use sucrose (which is marginally okay in my mind) or....

1. use rice instead, since it is a relatively neutral extender that lends fermentables and little flavor

or

2. use a bland honey since it is essentially invert (aka Candi) sugar anyway. While there may be residual sweetness, that would be okay if it is done within reason.

Have any of you guys played around with this is in your Dubbel or Trippel batches?

 

[Barc]

You can make your own invert sugar relatively quickly and easily. There's a thread or two on the subject, even one on how to make different kinds (light, dark, etc) of candi sugar.

 

[Barc]

So far as using rice goes, I think you'd be on the right track, however, used in larger quantities, you may end up with "odd" flavors. It isn't completely neutral. So, you may have to experiment.

And using honey will lend itself to some different flavors, as well since it isn't neutral.

At least, that's my take.

 

[Revvy]

That made me wonder -- I could make my own Candi sugar (which is at best a PITA) or use sucrose (which is marginally okay in my mind) or....

If you can stand at a brew kettle making beer you can stand at a stove and make candi sugar/syrup...Heck if you can boil priming sugar to bottle you can make candi sugar. How is boiling for 20 minutes a pita?

 

[Freezeblade]

If you add the sucrose during the boil the heat and acid environment of the boiling wort will invert the sugar for you.

On the topic though, I have done a belgian golden strong (duvel clone) that contained about 16% honey instead of clear candi syrup, sugar, or anything else. I added it during primary just as fermentation was slowing down. This took forever to ferment out by the way, but about 6 months later, it's an awesome beer.

 

[ForRealBeer]

If you add the sucrose during the boil the heat and acid environment of the boiling wort will invert the sugar for you

True enough, but I like to add simple sugars a little after high krausen so the yeast will work on the more complex sugars in the original wort. That's a Jamil recommendation and it seems to have worked pretty well over time.

 

[ForRealBeer]

If you can stand at a brew kettle making beer you can stand at a stove and make candi sugar/syrup...Heck if you can boil priming sugar to bottle you can make candi sugar. How is boiling for 20 minutes a pita?

Revvy, maybe I am missing something using Graham Sanders method for inverting sugar - he says to boil to the color you like (I want as clear as possible, let the malt color the beer) and then he says to take it up to 150 dC (~302 dF.) After that, pour out the hot liquid sugar and let it harden. I've done it and ended up with a bit of a mess in SWMBO's kitchen. Being lazy (we engineers call that efficiency) I was thinking of easier routes to the same endpoint.

 

[PseudoChef]

http://www.ratebeer.com/beer/the-bruery-trade-winds-tripel/88891/

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Our Summer seasonal, Trade Winds Tripel is a Belgian-style Golden Ale with a Southeast Asian twist. Instead of using candi sugar (typical for such a beer), we use rice in the mash to lighten the body and increase the gravity, and spice with Thai Basil. The result is an aromatic, digestible and complex beer made for a lazy summer evening.[/FONT]

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ABV: 8%, IBU: 25, SRM: 5, Release: Summer[/FONT]​

 

[Freezeblade]

Yeah, the bruery is also fscking weird, no joke, they are.

As for the messyness in making candi sugar/syrup, look here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/20-lb-sugar-jar-yeast-nutrient-114837/

This wasn't messy at all for me, and made some awesome syrup.

 

[ForRealBeer]

Thanks, freezeblade, that sounds easy enough for even me.

I had been thinking of ordering some Invertase (beta-fructofuranosidase) -- stuff they use in the candy industry to make their invert.

 

[PseudoChef]

Yeah, the bruery is also fscking weird, no joke, they are.

How are they weird? They make some fan-freakin-tastic beers, at least.