Sub 1.030 beers

[EZCyclone]

This is exciting, I have really wanted to do this and every time I try I get some 1050+ beer. Very excited to try this, I have a wheat beer recipe that makes six gallons at 5.2%, I doubled the brew water in it and it shows 3.0!

12 Gallons
5# malted wheat
5# 2-row
1oz Magnum

Sounds lite and tasty to me!

Thoughts?

 

[mewithstewpid]

i think you need some sort of flavor/aroma hop addition, throw in some cascades or amarillo (or a combo!) later in the boil. just my suggestion.

 

[urbanmyth]

Halfway through the boil on a table saison:

3.25# Bo Pils
1# Pale Wheat
.25# Caravienne

21g Hallertau (4.3%) - 60mins
14g Czech Saaz (3.1%) - 5 mins

Wyeast 3711 French Saison

OG is 1.025ish and will hopefully dry out to about 1.002, putting it right at 2.9%.

This is wholly inspired by the Brewing Network interview of Jester King, whose Le Petite Prince table saison is what I am trying to emulate. I really dig on session beers. English bitters and milds are among my favorites to brew at home. I also have started a sour program, many of which are lower gravity (1.040s) lambics and other odd wild type beers. They are FULL of flavor, and I can drink three or four pints and still be able to do school work and read journal articles.

Glad to know that I am not the only one who loves drinking more than the feelings that accompany it.

 

[urbanmyth]

To add:

I think the key to brewing these low gravity beers is to use the most flavorful ingredients you can. If a normal strength grain bill calls for, say

8# 2 Row
1# C40
.5# C120
.5# American Biscuit

Fermented with WLP001 California Ale

I would start lowering the base malt until I got within .005 of my target gravity, keeping the character grains more or less static. In addition to that, I will replace domestic grains with their more characterful European counterparts. Taking the grain bill above down to a 1.030 beer, for example, might look something like

4# Maris Otter
.75# Medium English Crystal
.5# Special B
.5# Belgian Biscuit

Fermented with WLP002 English Ale

With those changes, I would then raise mash temp, if you are looking for a full bodied finish, or go with the less attenuative yeast. Hopping, of course, is highly dependent on personal preference.

 

[Epimetheus]

This thread inspired me to alter an English Brown into a low ABV brew:
This low alcohol beer is less expensive because it uses less grain and hops.
As a bonus, the full volume all grain BIAB can fit in a 30 liter/ 32 qt tamale steamer.
Actually, I was shooting for 1.030 OG but added too much water at the last minute, so the OG is 1.027. Should be good anyway.

It is bubbling merrily behind me in the basement.

All Grain
Brew In A Bag
English Brown Table Beer

5.5 gallons into the fermenter

4.5 lbs Maris Otter malt
1 lb Biscuit malt
4 oz Chocolate malt


0.5 oz Fuggles 4% alpha first wort hop
0.5 oz Fuggles 4% alpha 10 minutes of boil

yeast: Wyeast London Ale 1028 (remnants of a yeast cake from a previous porter)
Safale-04 would work

mash
60 minutes
158 degrees F

Boil 60 minutes

OG: 1.027
Expected ABV: about 2.5

 

[gbx]

To add:

I think the key to brewing these low gravity beers is to use the most flavorful ingredients you can. If a normal strength grain bill calls for, say

8# 2 Row
1# C40
.5# C120
.5# American Biscuit

Fermented with WLP001 California Ale

I would start lowering the base malt until I got within .005 of my target gravity, keeping the character grains more or less static. In addition to that, I will replace domestic grains with their more characterful European counterparts. Taking the grain bill above down to a 1.030 beer, for example, might look something like

4# Maris Otter
.75# Medium English Crystal
.5# Special B
.5# Belgian Biscuit

Fermented with WLP002 English Ale

With those changes, I would then raise mash temp, if you are looking for a full bodied finish, or go with the less attenuative yeast. Hopping, of course, is highly dependent on personal preference.

I definitely like the way the fuller's yeast works in low gravity beer. I've been fermenting at 68-70F in a wide bucket with the lid just loosely placed on and skipping the diacetyl rest. wy1968 seems to lose a lot of maltiness and yeast character if its left on the cake after primary fermentation is done and I don't think the small amount of diacetyl that is created in a tiny beer is worth worrying about. I've never had good luck messing with the mash temp. If i had a computer controlled recirculating system maybe it would work but I usually just BIAB and its hard to be that precise. I like session beers a lot drier than the conventional homebrewer wisdom would suggest - most of the award winning mild recipes are brewed for a 2oz competition pour, not repeated 20oz pints

 

[mewithstewpid]

Working on a recipe that I plan to brew soon. Based on tallgrass 8-bit pale

4-bit Blonde Ale
OG:1.034
IBU 21
3.5 gallons

3.5 lb 2-row
1lb Vienna
.5 lb Munich
.5 lb victory

.20 oz horizon 60 min
.25 cascade 10 min
.25 centennial 10 min
.5 galaxy 0 min with hop stand (to mimic hop rocket)
.5 galaxy dry hop for 3 days


S-04

Should be about 3.4%

 

[shoreman]

4bit blonde looks tasty what is Galexy all about hopwise?

 

[Biohazard]

What a gem of a thread. I am pretty sure I will try a hopped up session, or maybe a petite saison soon.

 

[mewithstewpid]

4bit blonde looks tasty what is Haley all about hopwise?

I've only had galaxy in 8-bit pale ale, I have a pound of it but have yet to open it up.

In 8-bit it give tropical fruit notes, a lot of honeydew melon aroma. Even the wife said it smelled like melons.

 

[HanzerBiscuit]

Any thoughts on how this would turn out?

Fugget Season:

5 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.3 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Toasted #2 (15.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.3 %

0.35 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 7.3 IBUs
0.35 oz Nugget [13.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min

yeast from Flying Fish Grand Cru Winter Reserve.

Mash for 24 hours

 

[mewithstewpid]

Any thoughts on how this would turn out?

Fugget Season:

5 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 83.3 %
8.0 oz Aromatic Malt (26.0 SRM) Grain 2 8.3 %
8.0 oz Wheat Toasted #2 (15.0 SRM) Grain 3 8.3 %

0.35 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 4 7.3 IBUs
0.35 oz Nugget [13.80 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 17.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min

yeast from Flying Fish Grand Cru Winter Reserve.

Mash for 24 hours

that looks good, the only thing i can think of is that if you want character from both the hops, maybe do .75 fuggles and .25 nugget at 0min instead of just fuggles.

 

[HanzerBiscuit]

that looks good, the only thing i can think of is that if you want character from both the hops, maybe do .75 fuggles and .25 nugget at 0min instead of just fuggles.

Good idea. I think I'll move the nugget to 20 or 30 min and bump it up to .5 oz that should keep the bitter around the same level but leave in some of the aroma and flavor.

That or i'll get a bag and mix 1.5 fuggles and .5 nugget up ahead of time and just do a 60/30/0 split evenly.

 

[Schemy]

Great thread. Love a really flavorful session ale.

Here is a recipe for a 60 Schilling i brewed last year. A little over 1030, but quite sessionable. Really a rich flavorful beer. Was really pleased with the results.

This a 10 gallon recipe.

Est OG: 1035
Est FG: 1014
Boil Time: 90 min

11 lbs Golden Promise
12 oz Crystal 40
12 oz Crystal 120
12 oz Honey Malt
4 oz Chocolate Malt
1.2 oz Northdown (60 min)
Scottish Ale (Wyeast 1728)

Mashed @ 156 for 45 min
Fermented for 4 days @ 62

 

[shoreman]

Pulled a hydrometer sample on the Irish porter last night - down to 1.010 - wow that beer is gonna rock - it's that good already.

 

[progmac]

this thread has inspired me to do a dark session lager. something like a tiny schwarz bier. will post back.

 

[SudsyPaul]

I've been eyeing doing a Honey Mild for the last weeks. I don't have BeerTools available with me, but I'll post when I get home. It's something like this: For a 3.5-gal batch (yes, random size):

3lbs Marris Otter
8oz Aromatic Malt
8oz Honey Malt
3oz Chocolate Malt
2oz Victory Malt

.5oz Goldings @ 60
.25oz Goldings @ 15

Pitch with WLP002

 

[HanzerBiscuit]

I think mine is going to turn out pretty tasty!

I ended up going with:
0.35 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 7.1 IBUs
0.50 oz Nugget [13.80 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 7 15.2 IBUs
1.00 oz Fuggles [5.10 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs

OG of 1.032
ibu 22.3
estimated abv at 3.1
should be pretty drinkable

 

[tagz]

79% Vienna
10% Crystal 20
8% Flaked Barley
3% Aromatic

Warrior at 60 for 17 IBU

OG 1.039
Wyeast 1214

Well this didn't turn out that small after all. I get crazy attenuation from 1214. Both batches I brewed with it reached 90% AA. This one stopped at 1.004. So, it'll end up about 4.5%. Should be pretty tasty though.

 

[HanzerBiscuit]

Looks like mine finished at 1.006 for a 3.4% abv a little higher than I thought it would but still nice and drinkable. Hydro sample was interesting. Cant wait to get it cooled and carbed.

 

[quadmx08]

Seems to be a common trend that everyone ends up overshooting the og specified here.

I might as well join in. This thread inspired me to try a party gyle this weekend. Made a 5 gallon Zombie Dust clone (1.068) og. My second runnings were 1 gallon at 1.038. I BIAB so my efficiency is a little lower, which probably helps boost the second runnings. Used some falconer's flight and east kent goldings that i had laying around along with some dry English yeast. Thought about adding water, but i was putting this in a 1 gallon fermentor and didnt want to waste.


Zombie Dust-2

Recipe specifics:

Style: American IPA
Batch size: 1.0 gal
Boil volume: 1.5 gal
OG: 1.038
FG: 1.010
Bitterness (IBU): 25.0
Color (SRM): 7.3
ABV: 3.7%

Grain/Sugars:

2.18 lb Two-row (US), 84.2%
0.18 lb Munich (German), 7.0%
0.09 lb Crystal 40L, 3.5%
0.09 lb CaraPils, 3.5%
0.05 lb Melanoidan, 1.8%

Hops:

0.18 oz Kent Golding (AA 5.1%, Pellet) 60 min, 19.4 IBU
0.14 oz Kent Golding (AA 5.1%, Pellet) 10 min, 5.6 IBU
0.63 oz Falconers Flight (AA 11.4%, Pellet) 0 min, 0.0 IBU

Yeast/Misc:

English Ale yeast, 1.0 unit(s), Yeast

Batch Notes:

Whirlpool hops added at 140°F

1.3 grams of us05 pitched at 68°F

** dont pay attention to the grains. This was scaled and efficiency was adjusted from the full zombie dust recipie to match my second running og

 

[progmac]

any thoughts on mash temps? to avoid a watery beer, i'm thinking of mashing at like 156.

 

[gbx]

any thoughts on mash temps? to avoid a watery beer, i'm thinking of mashing at like 156.

I like using a less attenuative yeast vs messing with my mash temp. Just as over shooting your OG is a common problem when attempting tiny beers, hitting the mash temp can be a problem. I personally would rather err on the side of too watery than too thick: a 3% beer with a 1.006 FG will be drinkable but I can not finish more than a pint of a 2% beer with a 1.015 FG.

 

[progmac]

I like using a less attenuative yeast vs messing with my mash temp. Just as over shooting your OG is a common problem when attempting tiny beers, hitting the mash temp can be a problem. I personally would rather err on the side of too watery than too thick: a 3% beer with a 1.006 FG will be drinkable but I can not finish more than a pint of a 2% beer with a 1.015 FG.

interesting. i think i'll start at 153 and go from there. good point on the low attenuating yeast. i was planning on using mexican lager yeast and using the small beer as a yeast starter for an octoberfest.

 

[urbanmyth]

If you mash high and hit the beer with an aggressive yeast, you should have no problem having a sweet beer.

Mashing high leaves dextrins, which are mouthfeel and body building sugars, not sweet sugars. A beer that finishes at 1.006 with simple sugars left over will taste much sweeter than a beer that finishes at 1.014 with only dextrins left. For this reason, I tend to mash high (156-158) and hit with a strong, healthy pitch of yeast.

Lagunitas IPA (not a session beer) is mashed at 160. It is very drinkable and dry, albeit with a full mouthfeel. I look to examples like this to quash high mash temps = sweet beer rumors.

 

[progmac]

If you mash high and hit the beer with an aggressive yeast, you should have no problem having a sweet beer.

Mashing high leaves dextrins, which are mouthfeel and body building sugars, not sweet sugars. A beer that finishes at 1.006 with simple sugars left over will taste much sweeter than a beer that finishes at 1.014 with only dextrins left. For this reason, I tend to mash high (156-158) and hit with a strong, healthy pitch of yeast.

Lagunitas IPA (not a session beer) is mashed at 160. It is very drinkable and dry, albeit with a full mouthfeel. I look to examples like this to quash high mash temps = sweet beer rumors.

what an appropriate username! good info

 

[gbx]

If you mash high and hit the beer with an aggressive yeast, you should have no problem having a sweet beer.

Mashing high leaves dextrins, which are mouthfeel and body building sugars, not sweet sugars. A beer that finishes at 1.006 with simple sugars left over will taste much sweeter than a beer that finishes at 1.014 with only dextrins left. For this reason, I tend to mash high (156-158) and hit with a strong, healthy pitch of yeast.

Lagunitas IPA (not a session beer) is mashed at 160. It is very drinkable and dry, albeit with a full mouthfeel. I look to examples like this to quash high mash temps = sweet beer rumors.

hmmm....and the stability will be better as there is less fermentables left. mashing high probably is a better way to go if you can pull it off accurately enough with your system.

so I was thinking....Session Imperial Stout! all the body and flavour of a RIS but only 1/3rd the alcohol! What do you think is the best way to do this? My initial thought is to take a standard strength RIS recipe and scale back the base malt but leave the specialty grains the same and scale back the early hops to aim for similar ibus. I might have to try a 1 gallon stove top proof of concept this weekend

 

[urbanmyth]

hmmm....and the stability will be better as there is less fermentables left. mashing high probably is a better way to go if you can pull it off accurately enough with your system.

so I was thinking....Session Imperial Stout! all the body and flavour of a RIS but only 1/3rd the alcohol! What do you think is the best way to do this? My initial thought is to take a standard strength RIS recipe and scale back the base malt but leave the specialty grains the same and scale back the early hops to aim for similar ibus. I might have to try a 1 gallon stove top proof of concept this weekend

Well, I'm not sure that would work. There is a reason beers like RIS and barleywines are around. People wanted the things that the higher gravities impart. Much of the character of a RIS and a barleywine comes from the presence of high alcohol levels and how the alcohol plays with the residual malt and all that.

That being said, it's worth a shot. Not sure how you would go about it. Even in session beers you don't want to go above 30%ish specialty malts. I have been mixing base malts lately, mostly to extend my supplies, but I have been finding my beers more complex (for better or worse). In a clean beer like a cream ale, the added complexity from mixing pilsner, Maris Otter and (a small percentage) pale wheat malt or Munich malt might muddle the results, while this complexity in a dark mild or a Belgian Dark Strong is rather desirable.

 

[urbanmyth]

Having written what I just did, I think a session RIS, depending on recipe, might end up being a sweeter, roastier brown porter. Somewhere between a dark mild and a dry stout, with the body of a robust porter.

Has my mind churning.

OG: 1.035
FG: 1.009
SRM: 32

3# Maris Otter
.75# Munich 7L
.75# Pale Wheat
.75# Flaked Barley
.5# English Crystal 70-80L
.5# Pale Chocolate 200L
.5# Roasted Barley 550L

Fermented with WLP007 Dry English

Hop as you like.

That is how I would start a recipe for a session RIS...might even now be too roasty. The pale chocolate and roasted barley now make up 15% total of the grist. On a smaller beer, this might be way over powering without the alcohol sweetness to cut through it.

 

[gbx]

Having written what I just did, I think a session RIS, depending on recipe, might end up being a sweeter, roastier brown porter. Somewhere between a dark mild and a dry stout, with the body of a robust porter.

Has my mind churning.

OG: 1.035
FG: 1.009
SRM: 32

3# Maris Otter
.75# Munich 7L
.75# Pale Wheat
.75# Flaked Barley
.5# English Crystal 70-80L
.5# Pale Chocolate 200L
.5# Roasted Barley 550L

Fermented with WLP007 Dry English

Hop as you like.

That is how I would start a recipe for a session RIS...might even now be too roasty. The pale chocolate and roasted barley now make up 15% total of the grist. On a smaller beer, this might be way over powering without the alcohol sweetness to cut through it.

...maybe a very warm ferment to get some hot fusel alcohol in there to give it the perception of higher alcohol content.

There is this http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2010/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1941-barclay.html ...a low gravity irs brewed during ww2 but it looks like a yummy beer.

 

[urbanmyth]

...maybe a very warm ferment to get some hot fusel alcohol in there to give it the perception of higher alcohol content.

There is this http://barclayperkins.blogspot.ca/2010/02/lets-brew-wednesday-1941-barclay.html ...a low gravity irs brewed during ww2 but it looks like a yummy beer.

I would advise against poor fermentation in all cases. Fusel alcohol heat and ethanol heat are COMPLETELY different. Think the difference between a gentle warming and instant headache. That Barclay Perkins recipe looks pretty tasty, although still high in alcohol (in relation to this thread).

 

[quadmx08]

Trying to think of what to brew next. Ive been thinking of something similar to a Moose Drool, but want to make it a sub 1.030. I modified for my process and came up with this grain bill

og 1.052

2 row pale 7.742 67.7%
Chocolate 3.886 25.06%
crystal 75 0.893 6.99%
Black Patent 0.031 0.18%



Then scaled the base grain and rounded everything for a 1.030.

og 1.031

2 row pale 3.000 43.71%
Chocolate 4.000 42.95%
crystal 75 1.000 13.04%
Black Patent 0.031 0.30%





Does anyone have any experience with doing anything with so much specialty grains? In this case should I scale back any specialty grains? My SRM is essentially the same for each.


Also should I scale the hops to keep the BU:GU ratio or leave them?

 

[tagz]

40% is a massive amount of chocolate. It's going to have a serious astringent bite. You might want paramedics standing by.

 

[quadmx08]

40% is a massive amount of chocolate. It's going to have a serious astringent bite. You might want paramedics standing by.

I was thinking the same thing. How do you scale such a recipe back in gravity?

 

[tagz]

Did you brew the original beer with 25% chocolate? I've never strayed outside of single digits. I would just start with the specialty malts you want to use and then fill in the remaining gravity with base. Something like...

5% chocolate
10-15% crystal
1% black patent

And then fill with a flavorful base like marris otter. It's okay to up things like crystal a bit since its a smaller beer. I normally would use 15% crystal in a pale, brown, etc.... But I used about that much in a mild and it didn't come across as overly sweet. Some moose drool clones have oats as well, and that would definitely help boost the mouthfeel.

 

[tennesseean_87]

Here is the Can You Brew It Moose Drool recipe:

10.8 lbs domestic pale malt or
5.5 ounces chocolate malt 400l (4%)
1.25 lbs crystal 75-80
0.5 ounce black patent 525l

Cut the just base malt and get:
5.5 lbs domestic pale malt
5.5 ounces chocolate malt 400l (7%)
1.25 lbs crystal 75-80 (17%)
0.5 ounce black patent 525l (<1%)

I'd scale all hop additions to 60% by weight. You might look at some mild ale recipes, too, in order to see if there's too much crystal or chocolate or both by scaling just base malt, but you seemed way off before.

 

[quadmx08]

Whoops, that makes more sense. I used 5lb 5oz. Guess I should have thought about that a little more.

70% eff
5 Gal


OG 1.029

5lb Maris Otter (74%)
1.25lb crystal 75 (21%)
.344lb Chocolate (5%)
.0313lb Black Patent (0%)



IBU 17.36807862

0.82 oz East Kent Goldings 60 min 13.3 IBU
0.35 oz Willamette 15 3.1 IBU
0.35 oz Liberty 5 min 0.9 IBU

 

[Schemy]

That looks better, but....Why is the Black Patent at 0%? You essentially have the same amount as the chocolate malt.

 

[tennesseean_87]

I think one is in lbs, the other in ounces.

P.S. quadmx, your sig is massive, if you put stuff on the same line with commas or make it a smaller font size, it makes threads easier to read threads you post in.

 

[quadmx08]

That looks better, but....Why is the Black Patent at 0%? You essentially have the same amount as the chocolate malt.

That was a typo, I edited it. Chocolate is ~0.3 black patent is ~0.03

not really sure how necessary that black patent is. It contributes only 3 SRM. I may re-listen to the CYBI episode and see if they mention is. I know people refer to the usage of black patent as waving a few grains over the kettle, but I figure you add it for mostly color and some roasted character.