Stuck Fermentation on Really Big Imperial Stout

[flow415]

Where did you get ratio from? you made a yeast "starter" in (fairly high gravity) 1.074 wort.
Most yeast starters are 1:10 DME to water, by weight, for a 1.037 gravity.

In stirred starters you would not see much activity, except some foam at times, as the main object is to

Correction, I used 100g of dme. Sorry!

 

[VikeMan]

Reading through this thread again... I didn't see this mentioned/asked... How are you measuring the gravity (of the beer, not the starter)?

 

[flow415]

Reading through this thread again... I didn't see this mentioned/asked... How are you measuring the gravity (of the beer, not the starter)?

How did i measure the gravity of the starter? I didn't measure it. I do know that bubbles were coming out of my airlock for sure when I first put it on the stirplate after I aerated the wort and added the yeast.

 

[Alan Reginato]

I don't know what you are going to have in your fermentor when you finish it. Adding dry saison yeast maybe is another shot you could fire.

BTW, how you're measuring the gravity of the beer? Refractometer?

 

[VikeMan]

How did i measure the gravity of the starter?

No, the beer.

 

[flow415]

Reading through this thread again... I didn't see this mentioned/asked... How are you measuring the gravity (of the beer, not the starter)?

How did i measure the Gravity of the starter? I didn't measure it. I do know that bubbles were coming out of my airlock for sure when I first put it on the stirplate after I aerated the wort and added the yeast.

No, the beer.

I'm using a normal hydrometer.

 

[flow415]

I don't know what you are going to have in your fermentor when you finish it. Adding dry saison yeast maybe is another shot you could fire.

BTW, how you're measuring the gravity of the beer? Refractometer?

I'm using a hydrometer.

 

[IslandLizard]

I do know that bubbles were coming out of my airlock for sure when I first put it on the stirplate [...]

On an aside note, yeast starters need to have access to unlimited air/oxygen as that coaxes the yeast into aerobic respiration causing cell multiplication (through budding), rather than fermentation (anaerobic respiration).

In starters, an airlock should therefore be avoided, and instead, use a loosely crimped aluminum foil "tent" over the starter vessel's opening or a gas permeable (breathable) foam plug. Air (O2) can enter and CO2 can be expelled.

 

[passedpawn]

I haven't checked the gravity of it but I was just thinking if the yeast really took off, there would've been a lot of krausen.

Check your specific gravity right now. Report back.

 

[Bluntsworth]

Would distiller's yeast work? Is that a diastaticus yeast? I have a stuck Belgian Quad I need to figure out.

 

[dmtaylor]

Would distiller's yeast work? Is that a diastaticus yeast? I have a stuck Belgian Quad I need to figure out.

Not sure. But I can tell you for sure, Belle Saison will unstick any stuck fermentation... ESPECIALLY a Belgian style.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Would distiller's yeast work? Is that a diastaticus yeast?

That's like asking if brewer's yeast is diastaticus - some are, some aren't, distillers use a whole range of different yeasts.

 

[odie]

Belle Saison will unstick any stuck fermentation...

can you expand upon that? I have a very high OG RIS that I fear may be hung up.

and I have harvested Belle Saison yeast slurry on hand.

 

[dmtaylor]

Belle Saison yeast is just about the most diastaticus diastaticus yeast there is. This means it is able to eat more sugars than most other yeasts. Attenuation will be close to 95% no matter what sugars you throw at it, except lactose, it can’t eat that one.

 

[odie]

hmmm...might it eat too much? I don't want 1.010 FG on an RIS. But don't want 1.050-1.060 either.

 

[dmtaylor]

It might.

 

[Alan Reginato]

As @dmtaylor said, it might, but doesn't mean it always does.

Depends on some factors. Mash temp and grist composition. I usually brew with saison yeast and the only really high attenuation I got was last brew. Was a 100% pale ale, but at finner grind. FG was 1.000. With that kind of malt, at coarse grind, usually got 85% of attenuation. In dark beers, 80%. So, I don't think it will eat it up, with a standard mash temp and normal grain grinding.

BTW, I certainly would give a try with saison yeast.

 

[IslandLizard]

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@hotbeer and @Alan Reginato
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[gewehr43sniper]

I would try lalvin ec-1118 yeast from amazon, it should kick off another fermentation and its cheap

 

[G_robertus]

I would try lalvin ec-1118 yeast from amazon, it should kick off another fermentation and its cheap

I would be very careful with that. Most wine yeasts cannot ferment complex sugars, but are killer strains. Opinions online seem to differ and I've yet to test this myself, but I wouldn't put my money on it. If it fails to ferment and you have an active kill factor in your beer only other killer positive or neutral strains have any chance of continuing fermentation.

That said, my record with adding more yeast is very poor so I tend to just go with what I end up with and take note for next time. Saison or Brettanomyces might still work though.

 

[VikeMan]

I would try lalvin ec-1118 yeast from amazon, it should kick off another fermentation and its cheap

I don't know who originally recommended "champagne" yeast as a generic solution for stuck beer fermentations, but I wish they wouldn't have.

EC-1118 doesn't eat maltotriose and is bad as eating maltose. It's not going to cure a stuck beer fermentation. The same applies to most wine/champagne strains.

Lalvin K1V-1116 is an exception, and might be worth trying if this beer was (and still is) stuck. I note that OP hasn't posted since @passedpawn suggested measuring gravity again, 15 days ago.

 

[Bluntsworth]

Belle Saison

Wonderful! I will try that.

I'm currently mulling over adding some Belgian candi syrup. I'm thining the extra alcohol will help balance out the extra sugars that wont ferment. OG was 1.095 and current is 1.030. It is pretty sweet still.

Also wondering if I will need to keg and force carbonate to avoid the risk of no bottle fermentation and flat beer. Any thoughts?

Note: I have a sample currently experimenting on to the side. 200ml sample @ 1.030. Added A-Amylase and rested at 70c for a like a half hour then added a bit of the yeast from the batch in the fermentor (trub from the bottom). Nothing happening yet (24 hours). Going to add some candi sugar to this sample and see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

 

[dmtaylor]

Wonderful! I will try that.

I'm currently mulling over adding some Belgian candi syrup. I'm thining the extra alcohol will help balance out the extra sugars that wont ferment. OG was 1.095 and current is 1.030. It is pretty sweet still.

Also wondering if I will need to keg and force carbonate to avoid the risk of no bottle fermentation and flat beer. Any thoughts?

Note: I have a sample currently experimenting on to the side. 200ml sample @ 1.030. Added A-Amylase and rested at 70c for a like a half hour then added a bit of the yeast from the batch in the fermentor (trub from the bottom). Nothing happening yet (24 hours). Going to add some candi sugar to this sample and see what happens.

Thanks for the help.

These are all good ideas. I have done all the same things in various capacities in different batches over the years. The candi syrup thing is both as traditional as it is a band-aid for not being able to make a more highly fermentable wort. The keg & force carb idea is excellent, as I have experienced poor or unpredictable carbonation in bottled beers like this. And the amylase *might* help, hard to say... if it works, it might take a few weeks.

 

[Bluntsworth]

Not sure. But I can tell you for sure, Belle Saison will unstick any stuck fermentation... ESPECIALLY a Belgian style.

Thanks so much!! Bought some Belle Saison, put it in my side sample. and it is taking off after like 12 hours. I'm gonna see where this sample ends up on FG and if it's good, pitch it in the whole batch!

Note: Took a sample from the stuck wort (1.030), added candi sugar to OG of 1.060. If it gets to 1.015 (my initial target), will pitch into the fermentor. Yeast is working very well. Will taste also to make sure it's not too bone dry, but at this point, I'd prefer dry to overly sweet.

 

[flow415]

Hey guys,



Thanks so much for all the info. So just to give everyone an update, here's what's going on. I was stuck at 1.070 for the longest time. I added the alpha amylase, waited over a week, pitched WLP099 and after a day or so, saw a few bubbles from the airlock but that was it. The WLP099 I got was shipped from morebeer.com (not in ice) and when I created the starter for it, it never really took off and I didn't see any krausen even after waiting 3 days (on a stir plate). I should've took a before and after reading from the starter but I didn't. After all that, my beer is still sitting at 1.070 and it's quite sweet. The funny thing is, because it's been sitting so long, it actually tastes quite refined if that makes sense. Haha.

At this point, my next step is to go with the Belle Saison as recommended. I'll report back and give you guys an update.

 

[Bluntsworth]

Thanks so much!! Bought some Belle Saison, put it in my side sample. and it is taking off after like 12 hours. I'm gonna see where this sample ends up on FG and if it's good, pitch it in the whole batch!

Note: Took a sample from the stuck wort (1.030), added candi sugar to OG of 1.060. If it gets to 1.015 (my initial target), will pitch into the fermentor. Yeast is working very well. Will taste also to make sure it's not too bone dry, but at this point, I'd prefer dry to overly sweet.

The sample went from 1.060 to 1.010! Pitched the Belle Saison into the 5 gal fermenter, after a week it got from 1.030 to 1.024, so a little improvement. I didn't do a starter with it. Will do that next time. Last thing I'm gonna do is add 1.5 teaspoons of A-Amylase to the 5 gal bucket, stir it around a bit, and see if it bubbles after a week or so. If not, I'll take what I can get. Wont be too bad at 9.8% ABV, but would like it to get up to the desired target.

 

[dmtaylor]

The sample went from 1.060 to 1.010! Pitched the Belle Saison into the 5 gal fermenter, after a week it got from 1.030 to 1.024, so a little improvement. I didn't do a starter with it. Will do that next time. Last thing I'm gonna do is add 1.5 teaspoons of A-Amylase to the 5 gal bucket, stir it around a bit, and see if it bubbles after a week or so. If not, I'll take what I can get. Wont be too bad at 9.8% ABV, but would like it to get up to the desired target.

You don't need more amylase with Belle Saison in there. All you need is more time. Belle Saison takes about 3.5 weeks to complete fermentation in my experience. One or two weeks is not enough. Just be patient with it and it will finish much lower.

 

[odie]

Well my RIS is definitely stuck around 1.050-1.055 after fermenting since mid December. OG was about 1.130 and I used US-05

How much Belle Saison should I throw at it? I have about 1/2 cup of tight yeast cake in a mason jar.

17# 2 row
2# roasted barley
10oz black malt
1# chocolate malt
2# oats
11oz dark DME
1# lactose
2# maple syrup
3oz cacao powder
3oz cacao nibs
3oz ground coffee

 

[mac_1103]

Well my RIS is definitely stuck around 1.050-1.055 after fermenting since mid December. OG was about 1.130 and I used US-05

How much Belle Saison should I throw at it?

You're "stuck" at 10.5% ABV? How much lower were you hoping to go? Are you worried that Belle Saison will change the character of a RIS too much? Maybe just try something with a higher alcohol tolerance before you pull out and nuke it from orbit?

 

[odie]

This recipe has hit mid 13% and much lower FG before with less US-05 used.

granted, I did not take an FG until like a year later when tapped.

But after 3 months, I assume it should have reached FG.