Strike temperature.. how close do you get it?

[beergears]

How close do you call your strike , mash, I mean temp good?

I am asking, as I am struggling with strike temp. this morning, new-to-me space/setup and frigid outside temps.

I was shooting for 154 deg, started up with 146, raised with near-boiling additional water (x2) to around 152 now.

 

[IrregularPulse]

152 is close enough. I usually shoot for +-1 but don't fret over 2-3. Anything more than 3 and I'd try to adjust.

Take readings in several spots of your mash though kind of get an average and make sure you don't have hot and cold spots.

 

[chode720]

Do you mean the temp of your strike water, or the mash temp after dough-in?

After I dough in, I can usually get within a degree of my desidered mash temp. Its all about learning your system and the temperature loss, after adding in the strike water. I lose about 10-12 degrees, so I dough in when its 11 degress warmer. I usually try to get within 1-1.5 degress of my target

 

[beergears]

Yes, sorry, mash temp of course. Anxiety got the better of me!

 

[punk_rockin2001]

2 degrees off is fine. I've been off by lots more. With practice you'll start to get closer and closer too.

 

[beergears]

Well, I did get within 2-3 degrees, eventually, so I should be OK. This is first batch in a long time, so I am relearning...

Marching on with sparging!

 

[sithspitt]

Try http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/

 

[bkov]

I know strike/mash temp is important

but how important is the sparge water? I never pay may attention to the sparge temp, just approx

 

[permo]

It is important that you sparge temp not be too hot or you risk extracting bitter compounds from the grains. I sparge with 168 degree water, specifically I double batch sparge with 10 minute rests...stirring after 5 minutes. I routinely hit 80% efficiency...not bad for a cheap cooler.

 

[IrregularPulse]

IS this 168 water before you put it in or after? I usually got with 175-180 water to sparge because it drops after adding it to my mash recently drained mash.

 

[permo]

I go with 168 degrees before I add it to the mash tun for the batch sparge. I get no bitter flavors and great efficiency. I think the keys for my batch sparging process are to split the sparge into two seperate sparges, use a 10 minute rest, and stir the mash vigorously when you add the water and at the five minute mark of the rest. I also stir my grainbed up halfway through the mashing process.

My first AG I got like 65% efficiency. The only changes I made to my process was the stirring and my efficiency shot up.

 

[Yooper]

Generally, the hotter the grainbed (up to 170 degrees), the more "fluid" the sugars are. I usually use 180 degree sparge water, to get my grain bed up to 165-168 during the first sparge, and 172 to keep it at 168 during the second round, if I'm batch sparging. If I'm fly sparging, I'll do a mash out at near boiling to get my grainbed to 168, and then sparge with 172 degree water to keep the grainbed at 168.

 

[thelorax121]

With my system, at a rate of 1.3qt/lb grain, I get a 12 degree drop between the hot liquor and the grain. So I usually am spot on, or off by one degree, but as long as I am within two, I wouldn't sweat it

 

[RichBenn]

I've been hitting +/- 1 degree F. But, I notice there can be variation throughout the mash. Last time, I stirred too long and got almost 2 degrees off.

The trick, IMHO, is to:
1. Use a calculator, and
2. Put the water into the mash tun at about 10 degrees above the strike temperature.
3. Keep it open 'till it hits strike temp
4. Pour in the grains and stir.
5. Adjust strike temp for next time if you are off.

I found if I stir a bit longer with the lid open, the temp always goes down a degree or two, so I use a strike temp a degree higher than the calculator says. But overall, the calculators seem to get you pretty close.

 

[Bigscience]

I’ve been working on my brewing spreadsheet (WIP for about 10 years now) and have been trying to figure out a formula that accounts for as many variables as possible such as mash tun/grain specific heat, grain/mash tun temp and not just a calculator that uses a mash ratio like the Palmer Tw = (.2/r)(T2 - T1) + T2. The reason is that I’ll pull a double header and the tun will be about 60+ degrees warmer on the second batch of the day. I did a search and tested the first page of calculators with the following data

Mash Vol: 10.13 gal, 40.5qt 38.32 L
Grain 27lbs 12.25 kg
Mash Ratio 1.5qt/lb
Grain Temp 55°F 12.8 °C


The sites, their input and results are listed below. I tried to standardize the terminology to make things easier to follow and if a formula was listed, I included it too.

http://www.brewheads.com/strike.php
Input: Target Temp, Strike Volume, Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Thermal Loss of Vessel (3)
167.9°F


http://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtml
Input: Mash thickness, Target Temp, Grain Temp
169°F

http://www.tastybrew.com/calculators/infusion.html
Input: Target Temp, Mash Thickness, Grain Temp, Grain Mass
Based on Palmer Initial Infusion Equation:
Strike Water Temperature Tw = (.2/r)(T2 - T1) + T2
166.1

http://www.brew365.com/mash_sparge_water_calculator.php
Input: Mash Volume, Grain Temp, Target Temp, Grain Mass, Mash Thivckness
((((GrainMasslbs*0.05)+MashVolgal)*TargetF) - ((GrainMass*0.05)*GrainTempF))/MashVolgal
166.07

http://www.brewerslair.com/index.php?p=brewhouse&d=calculators&id=cal20&u=eng
Input: Grain Mass, Target Temp, Grain Temp, Mash Vol
170.2


http://www.quaff.org/cyberbrau/StrikeWaterTemp.htm
Input: Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Mash Vol, Target Temp, Mash Tun Thermal Factor (0.12), Mash Tun Mass (33.2lb)
170

http://www.brewblogger.net/index.php?page=tools&section=strike&action=calculate
Input: Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Mash Vol, Target Temp, Equipment Loss (this just adds to the strike temp)
From Calculations derived from the Brewing Techniques Troubleshooter, Vol. 4, No. 4
http://brewingtechniques.com/library/backissues/issue4.5/miller.html
166.1


http://pint.com.au/calculators/strikewatertemp/
Input: Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Mash Volume, Target Temp
165.5
Strike Temp =
desired mash temp x (litres water + (0.4 x kg malt)) – (0.4 x kg malt x malt temp)
litres water

http://texanbrew.com/tbcalcs/index.php
Input: Mash Ratio, Grain Temp, Target Temp, Thermal Loss (3 is default)
168.5

http://www.brewersfriend.com/mash/
Input: Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Mash Ratio, Target Temp
166.1
For the off the shelf software I got the following results:
Beer Smith
Input: Target Temp, Mash Vol, Grain Mass, Grain Temp, Mash Tun Mass (33.2), Mash Ratio, Mash Tun Specific Heat (0.12 cal/gm/C for SS), Grain Specific Heat (0.38 cal/gm/C)
169.5
Promash
Input: Mash Tun Specific Heat (Thermal Mass), Grain Mass, Mash Vol, Mash Ratio, Target Temp, Grain Temp
169.98

It seams to me that what we looking for is the amount of calories require to raise the temp of the grains and the mash tun with a given amount of water as dictated by the mash ratio. The specific heats of the grains, I’ve seen 0.367, 0.38 and 0.4 cal/gm/C and for stainless mash tun 0.12 cal/gm/C and water 1.0. When I run the math numbers I get the following.

Grain Temp 12.8 °C
Grain Mass 12.25 kg
Grain Delta 36.7 °C Requires 170.6 cal
MT Temp 12.8 °C
MT Mass 15.06 kg
MT Delta 36.7 °C Requires 66.3 cal
Final Temp 67.2 °C
Mash Vol 38.34L

351.76 Cal required or 9.2°C above target =76.4C= 169.5F

Soooo
((MTw(MTT2-MTT1)(0.12))+(Gw(GT2-GT1)(0.38)))/StrikeVol=Degrees Above Target

Where:
MTw is Mash Tun Weight in kg
MTT2 and GT2 are Target Temp
MTT1 and Gt1 are Mash Tun and Grain initial temps, respectively
StrikeVol is the amount of strike water in L
0.12 is the specific heat for stainless (plastic would be 0.3, Copper 0.092, Aluminum 0.215, Pyrex 0.200)
0.38 is the specific heat for grain

 

[budbo]

I know strike/mash temp is important

but how important is the sparge water? I never pay may attention to the sparge temp, just approx

I usually start the sparge at around 200 (no mash out) for a 30 min sparge with heat loss the grain bed is usually around 140 when all the water is gone... I generally get between 80-85% efficiency, for keeping mash temp I wrap the mash tun in a water softener insulation wrap that in winter keeps it within a degree for the whole mash

 

[Brew-boy]

I hit usually within 1 degree. Beertools has me calibrate my mashtun ask me the temp of my grain and the outside temp on brewing day. I feel these are the factors that allow me to be spot on when I don't screw things up.

 

[springer]

I am +/- 1° most times I use this calculator calc last brew the grain was 22° degrees and my strike was 174° and I hit 154° on the nose lost 1° over an hour was 26° ambient . The Igloo 10 gallon works great

I have been going a little thinner on my mash I used to use 1.25 qt per pound I upped it to 1.50 and it seems to work better I only do one sparge with 180-185° water getting 80%+ every time

 

[SkiSoloII]

With all these calculators (I use http://njnear76.bravehost.com/ ), the main thing to remember are to preheat the mash tun, get the grain temp, and get the water ratio right. I usually hit my temps pretty close.

Dave

 

[IrregularPulse]

I’ve been working on my brewing spreadsheet (WIP for about 10 years now) and have been trying to figure out a formula that accounts for as many variables as possible such as mash tun/grain specific heat, grain/mash tun temp and not just a calculator that uses a mash ratio like the Palmer Tw = (.2/r)(T2 - T1) + T2. The reason is that I’ll pull a double header and the tun will be about 60+ degrees warmer on the second batch of the day. I did a search and tested the first page of calculators with the following data

..............
Soooo
((MTw(MTT2-MTT1)(0.12))+(Gw(GT2-GT1)(0.38)))/StrikeVol=Degrees Above Target

Where:
MTw is Mash Tun Weight in kg
MTT2 and GT2 are Target Temp
MTT1 and Gt1 are Mash Tun and Grain initial temps, respectively
StrikeVol is the amount of strike water in L
0.12 is the specific heat for stainless (plastic would be 0.3, Copper 0.092, Aluminum 0.215, Pyrex 0.200)
0.38 is the specific heat for grain

Wow. That's a lot of work, but over 10 years you could have set aside $2 a year and bought Beersmith that does all that I understand some people like the numbers though.

 

[Mirilis]

With my new rig I dont have to worry about adding water .. i just reset the mash to mashout at about 168 ,then I set the HLT to 170 and turn the pumps on to start the sparge. I only done 1 batch on it but it worked out so far.

Next time I may just mash out at 168 then sparge with 168 to make sure i dont get anything unwanted.

When I had my coolers I used 180 water in the HLT cooler and didnt do a mash out at all.. I still got pretty good eff.

 

[nebben]

Practice.

My first one was very far off- ~138F.
The second one was better, but it sucked ~147F.
Third was almost right on ~150F.
Fourth nailed it ~152F (shooting for medium body 154F).
Fifth nailed it ~158F (shooting for full body).

I did a lot of reading after each failure to see where I could try to improve it. Once I hit it on the fourth attempt, I still had some ideas to help improve the process, and the fifth ended up being quick, easy, and right where I wanted it to be (1F +/-).

 

[smizak]

My system varies, it's a little annoying sometimes. I use Beersmith, and my temps have under and overshot. What I've done on my last couple beers is intentionally aim to undershoot my temp a little. I would rather have to heat up the mash than lose beta-amylase activity by overheating. I'll dough-in, stir like crazy, then leave it for 5 min. I'll re-check and make adjustments after. Doing a .25 gal. decoction, heat to boiling, then adding back consistently raises my mash by 1 degree Fahrenheit, so I can dial it in pretty accurately with that.

 

[Bigscience]

Wow. That's a lot of work, but over 10 years you could have set aside $2 a year and bought Beersmith that does all that I understand some people like the numbers though.

I have Beersmith and Promash. The issue I have with them is that they don't use the temp of the mash tun as a variable. I believe they assume it's the same as the grain temp. So on the second brew of the day, the mash tun will be way warmer. If this is not accounted for, you'll be over on the strike.

I enjoy designing my brew sheet as is has more information and a better flow than the other programs I've seen. I also think it's part of the hobby. Just like people can buy a premade system, kettles, software or even beer, the designing and building is almost as fun as the brewing. Maybe that's just me though.

 

[Forbein11]

I use beersmith and mash in an igloo cooler (10 gal). Beersmith does account for the temp of the mashtun and the grain. I hit my mash temps spot on. Just enter the correct data and make sure to check the box to base mash calculations on your equipment. Forgetting that box will result in a mash temp 5-10 degrees too low for my equipment.

 

[SamuraiSquirrel]

I have Beersmith and Promash. The issue I have with them is that they don't use the temp of the mash tun as a variable. I believe they assume it's the same as the grain temp. So on the second brew of the day, the mash tun will be way warmer. If this is not accounted for, you'll be over on the strike.

I enjoy designing my brew sheet as is has more information and a better flow than the other programs I've seen. I also think it's part of the hobby. Just like people can buy a premade system, kettles, software or even beer, the designing and building is almost as fun as the brewing. Maybe that's just me though.

The part about beer smith not letting you enter the temp of the tun is incorrect. You can separately enter the temp of the tun & the temp of your grain.

I have hit my mash temps spot on when both things were entered. I keep a thermometer in my grain and another in my tun with the lid closed up until a few minutes before I strike. Once the water is getting heated near the ballpark temps I plug in the temperatures to determine exact strike temp.

I have always been +/- 1 degrees with this method.

 

[Bigscience]

The part about beer smith not letting you enter the temp of the tun is incorrect. You can separately enter the temp of the tun & the temp of your grain.

I have hit my mash temps spot on when both things were entered. I keep a thermometer in my grain and another in my tun with the lid closed up until a few minutes before I strike. Once the water is getting heated near the ballpark temps I plug in the temperatures to determine exact strike temp.

I have always been +/- 1 degrees with this method.

So do you always add the total amount of strike water required by your ratio or do you stop once you hit temp?



For Beersmith the Strike/Infusion Temp Tool the fields for input are:

Calculation: (Initial Strike, Infusion Step)

Target Step Temp:

Water to Add:

Weight of Grain:

Initial Grain Temp:

Mash Tun Weight:



The Mash Tun Volume Required, Infusion Water Temp and Water/Grain Ratio are outputs.

Maybe I'm missing something so please inform me of how Beersmith would calculate the two following scenarios:

27 lbs at 1.5 qt/lb, desired temp 153F, MT weight 33.2, grain temp 52F, MT temp 52F

27 lbs at 1.5 qt/lb, desired temp 153F, MT weight 33.2, grain temp 52F, MT temp 135F


All I'm saying is that some people would like to build/design for themselves and since there were questions, I tried to provide an answer that I'd not come across on the net. The response from some was "just go out and buy it."

Brewing is like BBQ and Religion. Everyone has their own way to do it and are convinced theirs in the only way to do it.