Stouts and Porters are not dark enough

[Culbetron]

All of my stouts and porters that I have made have been brown. Not anything close to black. I used Jamil's recipes for sweet stout and his robust porter but they have been waaay lighter than they are supposed to be.

At first I thought it was a PH issue because my mash PH was really low on the dark beers. But the last stout I made I adjusted the mash PH to 5.3.

Some other possible culprits:
- I don't have a very vigorous boil. I'm pushing the wort volume as high as possible for my system and my boil has suffered.
- I haven't used any irish moss on those beers
- The malt I've been using is crushed quite a while before I can use it.

Anyone have any ideas as to what's going on?

By the way, the light beers I've been making have been looking and tasting great.

 

[CadillacAndy]

Dark grains can have varying colors. Are you using grain with the same lovibond rating as the recipe calls for? Are you hitting all of the other numbers - gravity, volumes, etc?

 

[Culbetron]

I'm hitting all my numbers for gravity and volume.

I'm using Weyermann malt but made sure of the lovibond rating of each.

I should say that the one extract stout I made was great and very dark.

 

[CadillacAndy]

When are you adding your dark grains?

 

[Culbetron]

Along with all the rest of the grains at the beginning of the mash

 

[CadillacAndy]

Are the flavors where they are supposed to be? If not, my only thought would be to add more to get the color and flavor you're looking for.

 

[stru]

I had the same problem on my first several stout recipes.

If you are happy with the flavor you could add some debittered black malt to get the color you want. I like mine a bit more bitter than most people so I add a decent amount of roasted barley and black patent to mine. It's very dark.

 

[Culbetron]

The flavor does seem like it could use a bit more roastiness. My thought is to just brew the next one with quite a bit more roasted malt OR steep the dark grains separately so that I can adjust the color/roastiness. I'm not sure though if this is an ingredient or process problem.

 

[estricklin]

What about your base malt?

 

[Braufessor]

How much are you using of which grains in a typical 5 gallon batch? Basically, this is about the only thing that is going to determine color/flavor of roast.

Also, I personally let the mash pH of dark beers go to 5.5-5.6 . . . . it rounds out the roast flavors. Because of the acidity of dark grains, these beers can handle a higher pH.

Also, from your description, I am assuming the dark grains are also properly crushed??? That would do it if they were not.

I would focus on quality and quantity of those dark grains though.

 

[Smellyglove]

The flavor does seem like it could use a bit more roastiness. My thought is to just brew the next one with quite a bit more roasted malt OR steep the dark grains separately so that I can adjust the color/roastiness. I'm not sure though if this is an ingredient or process problem.

If this was me i'd try adding some carafa special III, at sparge. For a five gallon batch maybe 40g. Grind them in a coffee-grinder.

 

[mabrungard]

For sure, mash pH has an important effect on color extraction. Low pH does reduce color and roast flavor extraction, so that is a likely culprit. Adjusting mash water chemistry to keep the pH in the 5.4 to 5.6 range does improve color and roast flavor in black and brown beers. This is important for all stout styles excepting dry stout. That is the only one where lower pH is desirable.

 

[Culbetron]

Thanks everyone for the input. I'm living in Moscow Russia and so my water has been really suspect. I can't get an accurate water report either. Fortunately we just installed an RO filter last week so hopefully I'll have an easier time next brew day adjusting PH

 

[Culbetron]

I think I may have found the answer to my problems. I only have acess to Dingeman's malt and certain Weyerman malts. The problem is that all the black malts I can get (Carafa III special, Roasted Barley, and Black) are all debittered.

So what I thought was roasted barley is actually dehusked. Dingeman's says this about their roasted barley "Because we are using pealed barley the undesired astringent flavor from the husk of the barley disappears!"

The next step is figuring out how on earth I'm supposed to make a decent stout or porter with dehusked malt!

 

[william_shakes_beer]

get a half pound of black patent

 

[ColeVet67]

I just did, a few weeks ago, a Dry Stout PM.. It is BLACk AS NIGHT.. like no kidding "used motor oil" dark.
I would be more then willing to share the recipe if you like.. !!!

 

[Culbetron]

Don't think you guys read the last couple posts in the thread

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Talk to your supplier, I"m sure they can order some regular non-dehusked for you. Otherwise you may have to try ordering online somewhere or importing or something.