Stopping frementation/Extreme cold crashing

[freak007]

Hello,

I started my first attempt at brewing on 12/5. I used 4 gallons of Musselman cider and 36 oz of apple juice concentrate with S-04. OG was 1.056.

I checked it on 12/10, it was down to 1.000. I added another gallon of cider, and 9 more ounces of concentrate (measured 1.056 again), this brought it back to 1.011. On 12/11 I checked and it was down to 1.002. I am expecting it to bottom out in the next couple days.

However, I was not terribly impressed with the overall flavor. It wasn't *bad* per se, just not as "appley" as I would expect, especially with all the concentrate I added. I know a lot of this is due to the lower quality of the starting must.

I am thinking once it bottoms out, I would like to back sweeten with more concentrate, or possibly add some apple extract before bottling. I intend to bottle it still.

My problem is I don't think current weather conditions will permit me to cold crash this. High's this week are supposed to be 8-14*F (-10ish C). My garage is unheated, and my basement stays 60*+

I know I could use these temps to make some pretty good applejack. But this is not the goal at this time


I would like to bottle this around 1.003, and enhance the apple flavor. Any suggestions?

 

[BILTIT]

What yeast did you use?

 

[freak007]

Safale S-04

 

[Antler226]

You could use Campden tablets to stop fermentation. As for flavor, have you considered adding acid or tannins? The tartness from the acid could really enhance the depth of your cider (along with natural juice).

 

[freak007]

Will re-racking with Campden stop the yeast without cold crashing it first? I thought you had to cold crash, and use Campden with Potassium Sorbate to stop it completely?

I am open to adding anything. The taste I took didn't seem overly dry. It was just bland...
When you say acid, are you thinking malic acid, or more of an acid blend?

Maybe Apple extract would be a better option than concentrate?

 

[Antler226]

It should, but only based on what I've heard and read. Cold crashing is just extra reassurance but not necessary.

I've always used an acid blend for depth (they hit different parts of the tongue). Here's a fun article: http://wakawakawinereviews.com/2013...nking-briefly-about-tartaric-and-malic-acids/

Extracts would work but it usually tastes more one-dimensional compared to fruit juice.

 

[freak007]

Hmm...

I think what I am going to do is let this bottom out. and then move it into secondary. I am leaving after New Years and will be out of town for a month or so. Once I get back I will kill the yeast, and pull a 1qt sample to experiment with adding concentrate and acid...

 

[bucketnative]

I really wouldn't base the flavor or aroma of the cider off of a sample that was taken as primary was finishing up. It usually isn't very good at this point, lots of things still going on that can detract from the apple flavor. I usually don't drink my first cider from a batch until it has fermented for 1 month, then aged in secondary for 1 month, then aged in a bottle for at least 1 month.

 

[Yooper]

Will re-racking with Campden stop the yeast without cold crashing it first? I thought you had to cold crash, and use Campden with Potassium Sorbate to stop it completely?

I am open to adding anything. The taste I took didn't seem overly dry. It was just bland...
When you say acid, are you thinking malic acid, or more of an acid blend?

Maybe Apple extract would be a better option than concentrate?

Campden does NOT stop or inhibit yeast, ever. Well, I guess it could if you added so much that it would stress wine yeast, but that amount would make the cider undrinkable.

I'm not sure where the myth of campden (sulfites) stopping fermentation comes from, but it sure is pervasive. If campden actually hurt wine yeast, winemakers wouldn't use it routinely, and strive to keep it at 50 ppm at all times.

You're correct- sorbate is what is used. But it doesn't kill yeast, it's used to inhibit yeast reproduction so it's only effective in a completely finished cider or wine that is completely clear and no longer dropping lees (since there are plenty of yeast in a hazy unfinished wine/cider).

Anyway, S04 should stop at 1.002-1.004, at least it always has for me. Often, the apple flavor comes back with aging but it really depends on the OG of the cider/wine. If the OG is pushed up with simple sugars to a wine, sometimes the apple flavor becomes more of a wine flavor, and the apple-ness disappears. Since this seems to be apple wine, and not cider due to the high ABV, it might need quite a bit of age to come around. I did a quick math in my head, but if seems like the OG of this wine would have been 1.110 or more. If the S04 doesn't poop out, and it very well might (I haven't used it in a wine or cider over about 1.055 or so), it'd be in the 12% territory. I don't know how high S04 could be pushed, though.

It might be a good thing if it poops out around 10% ABV, even though it would leave some sweetness and not be dry.

 

[carlnpa]

Yooper

S04 gives up at 9.5% reliably.

If sugars are pushed up to around 1.09 initially it will finish in the 1.018 range, the apple flavor is never gone. Cold crash not required.

We make a lot of this recipe, it looks and tastes like cider. It has remaining excess sugar

If started in the 1.05/6 range (the raw cider we use) it may taste like a dry wine <1.000, the apple is gone but may come back.

 

[freak007]

Thanks for the input.

The OG was measured at 1.056, and all the math I have done this should be correct...

The original Cider measured 1.048.

I did not measure the concentrate, but the nutrition information says 20g of sugar for every 2 oz of liquid. I added 45 oz of concentrate, so 450g of sugar (453.6g to a pound)

Total volume would be 5.35 gallons

My goal is a semi-dry cider in the 6.5-7.5% ABV range


I checked it again last night. It is starting to clear up, SG measured 1.004, which naturally makes me question the accuracy of the measurement I tool on 12/11. Flavor was MUCH better, the apple was definitely there, a little bit of tartness, and not excessively dry.

I will be moving it into secondary in the next couple days. I think letting it age/settle for a bit is probably best.


Yooper; I seem to remember reading somewhere that you said it was best to use Sorbate and Sulfite together in order to stop fermentation? I have both in powder form (I also have Campden tabs), what would the dosage I need be? I will not be doing anything beyond a rerack for at least a month...