Stone Mocha IPA Clone

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Blackdirt_cowboy

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Anybody have a recipe for this that you'd be willing to share? Even just a starting point would be helpful. I'm pretty much a newb at brewing, so there's no way I could begin to clone this without help. I've got an email in to the brewery as well, to see if they will help me out. I know what the hops are from the website, but have no clue where to start on the grain bill. I'm not usually into the IPAs, I'm more into the malty tasting beers, but this one is absolutely amazing. If anyone has any pointers, I'd be grateful.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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I've been doing some research and came up with a recipe. I know the hops used, but I don't know when in the boil they should be added. I also know what "extras" are added per the website, but don't know if they are added to the mash or to fermentation or after fermentationnis done. Here is what I've come up with.

Stone Mocha IPA Clone

Method: All Grain
Style: Imperial Stout/IPA
Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
OG: 1.090
FG: 1.021
ABV: 9.04%
IBU: 81.05
SRM: 32.95

14.75 lbs. American pale 2-row
2 lbs. crystal 60L
2 lbs. flaked oats
1 lb. American chocolate malt

This grain bill is just a stab in the dark. I loosely followed the guidelines for an imperial stout. I have no idea if my color is even close, as I've never poured a Mocha IPA. I've always just drank them staraight from the bottle.

As far as hops go, stones website says they use cascade, citra, and Amarillo. I just don't know which to use for bittering, flavor and aroma. So far, this is what I have.

2 oz. cascade at 60 minutes
2 oz. Citra at 15 minutes
3 oz. Amarillo at 5 minutes

Stone's website also says they use Ryan Brothers coffee espresso gold, cacao, and milk sugar. I have absolutely no idea what amounts and when to add these.

I also am not sure what yeast to use. Tentatively, I am planning on wyeast American ale 1056. It can handle the higher alcohol content, but I'm not sure it's got a high enough attenuation percentage at 75%.

I will probably scale this back to a one gallon batch when I try it the first time. But in the meantime, can anyone help me out on some of the things I am unclear on? Also, what is yalls opinion on this grain bill?
 

ColeVet67

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Stone's website also says they use Ryan Brothers coffee espresso gold, cacao, and milk sugar. I have absolutely no idea what amounts and when to add these.

Well i think you might want to do some COLD BREW coffee and add this to either secondary or bottling/kegging.

I would source some cocoa nibs and also add those to secondary. The amount of nibs is dependent on the flavour profile of choc you want in the end. Adding to secondary will simply "steep" in the beer.

The milk sugar (lactose) can be added during primary and should/will not add any points to gravity as it is not ferment able. May want to keep this addition low or you will end up with a MILK STOUT sweetness.

For any of these additions.. (i havent played with, but familiar with reading) you should play around to find your desired levels. There is no wrong or right amount... once you figure it out.. come back with a recipe and others may tweek.. Good luck.. HAPPY BREWING.. !!
 

syates0351

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So I agree in your assessment that this beer is outstanding. That being said I think your grain bill could use some adjustment. Adding the chocolate malt is going to make it too dark.

My research comes up with the following gains used: 2 Row, Munich, Crystal 40, and Victory

I would say the lactose goes I the primary with the espresso and dark cacao in the secondary as their website says they use "pure dark chocolate"

For hop additions I'd go cascade 60 minutes, citra 15 minutes and the Amarillo for perhaps 2 minutes.

I haven't plugged any of this into my program yet so you'll have to play around with the quantities to hit the 9% abv and 80 IBU.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

Blackdirt_cowboy

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I agree with your assessment on the grain bill. I realized it was going to be too dark. This is what I've come up with.

18 pounds 2 row
1.25 pounds crystal 20
2 oz. chocolate malt

Brewers friend estimates this will be 11 srm. I can't decide what srm the beer is but I think it's in the 9-11 range. I will probably start with this and see how close it will get me. Out of curiosity, what will the victory malt contribute? I have no experience with it.
 

syates0351

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Victory malt will add that golden color the beer has and balance out the sweetness of the crystal malt. Plus I think it compliments the citra hops nicely and adds a layer of complexity. Beerconnoisseur.com lists the malts I posted previously for this beer . After I posted that I toyed around with the grain bill I brewers friend and brew cipher and this is what I came up with:

14lbs 2 row
2lbs Munich
1.25 lbs Crystal 40
1 lb victory
2.1 oz cascade @ 60 min
2 oz Citra @ 15 min
1.5 oz Amarillo @ 2 min

The numbers show 9.04% abv, 79.89 ibu and 12.59 srm (which isn't too far from your estimate)

I couldn't find the srm of the actual brew listed anywhere, so I was just throwing a guess out there as well. All my fermenters are currently in use and I'm doing an Old Rasputin clone next so it may be a while until I can give this a shot. Keep me updated on your progress. In the meantime I'm going to go buy out my local beer stores' stock of this delicious gold.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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Good find on beer connoisseur. I wonder where they got their info on the grain bill? Since I'm still a rookie, I may go with theirs and see how it turns out. I've got the Ryan brothers espresso gold on hand, as well as cacao nibs and lactose. I'm out of base malts at the moment but should have 250 pounds arriving sometime this week. As soon as that gets here I will have everything I need to try this out. I'll probably just do a BIAB on the kitchen stove for a 1 or 1.5 gallon batch and see what happens. I plan on using Wyeast 1056 American Ale yeast. Does this sound right to you?
 

triethylborane

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I don't know when Stone adds the nibs, but generally I add nibs and/or cholaca after krausen has dropped from primary fermentation on my beers that use the stuff. So generally 4-6 days after pitching yeast.

Lactose - I add at 60 minutes on a 60 minute boil.

I think 1056 would be fine for this brew.
 

syates0351

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Rookie with 250 lbs of malt on the way? That's a whole lot of malt. Nice. I just bottled a Belgian saison and transferred an Irish red to secondary for cold crashing today, so I've got two fermenters freed up. Probably going to place my order for the Old Rasputin and this beer's grain later this week.

I find grain bills for commercial brews in the oddest places sometimes and I always wonder about the source and validity of the information but I think Beer Conn. is pretty reputable.

1056 or WLP001 are what I was thinking for this as well just make sure to make a big starter to account for the high gravity and low attenuation.

I personally do my coffees and cacao nibs in a secondary fermenter but I'm always doing a stout with these, something that can sit for weeks/months. Adding them after high krausen is an interesting thought and would shorten the boil to bottle/keg time considerably.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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Yeah, that’s a lot of grains for a rookie, but I’m 2 hours from the nearest home brew shop, so I took advantage of a bulk order deal that saved me 35% plus free shipping. Shipping costs on all this stuff was eating me up. I bought 250 pounds base malt, 12 pounds of various hops, and 80 pounds of specialty grains. I can damn near brew any beer I want on a whim. The only thing I don’t have on hand is yeast, just because I’m scared it will ruin before I can use it.

Anyhow, keep me posted on how your brew goes. I hope to get one done this weekend.
 

syates0351

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Ah, your in Waco. Yeah, you probably have to go to Dallas for the closest HBS. I grew up in Bryan/College Station. Not that you'll need it anytime soon but morebeer.com has free shipping on orders over $59. There are some items that don't qualify, such as bottles, but even with the $9.95 shipping on bottles it's cheaper than Amazon. I'm guessing 2 or 3 day shipping from Pittsburgh to Waco. I usually order 2 recipes worth of ingredients which puts me over the free shipping limit and being in WV, if I order before 1 p.m. I get the stuff the next day. As for grain they usually have options for 1, 5, 10, and 55 lbs. The 55 lb doesn't qualify for the free shipping either but I worked out the math and it still comes out cheaper to order 6- 10 lb packages of grain and get the free shipping than the 55 with shipping charges. Just some info for the next time you need grain.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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I finally had a chance to brew this yesterday. I only did a 1.5 gallon batch just to see how it comes out. It was cold and rainy yesterday so I just did a BIAB batch on the kitchen stove. My boil off rate was less than it usually is, so I ended up with 2 gallons of wort rather than 1.5. As such, my gravity was 15 points low. Had I boiled off that extra half gallon, I would have nailed the expected OG of 1.090. I Used some of the wort to boil some DME to bring the gravity up to where it should be. It’s bubbling like crazy this morning.

The wort had a great taste with an extremely bitter finish. Hopefully the bitterness will mellow during fermentation. I plan on adding the cacao nibs after fermentation settles down and will add the cold brewed coffee at bottling.

Oh, one other change I made - I didn’t have any victory malt, so I toasted some 2-row in the oven and substituted it with that.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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So fermentation went quickly and the beer has been sitting on cacao nibs for 4 days. I’ll probably rack it onto cold brewed coffee tomorrow and bottle it. I sampled it tonight and there are some similarities. Color looks pretty close. My beer doesn’t have near the aroma that the original does. The IBUs are right, and the bitterness tastes right, but the aroma is off. I may need to dry hop with the Amarillo instead of using in the boil. Also, the stone beer tastes sweeter. I may need to up the amount of milk sugar. My beer has a chocolate flavor, but it may not be as intense as the Stone. Of course, I won’t make any changes until the coffee is added and it’s carbed up. These are just some preliminary notes.
 
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Blackdirt_cowboy

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So here is the recipe I went with:

79.5% 2 row
13.3% light Munich
2.5% crystal 40
4.8% victory

1.75 cascade @ 60 minutes
1.75 citra @ 15 minutes
1.75 Amarillo @ 2 minutes

4 oz Ryan brothers coffee at kegging
6 oz Cacao nibs at secondary
8 oz milk sugar @ 15 minutes

Wyeast 1056 yeast


I just cracked one open after 2 weeks bottle conditioning and there are some subtle differences. First, on the color, I’m really close. The stone beer is clearer, and mine may be just a little lighter if I get it cleared up. The aroma is somewhat different. Mine smells strongly of coffee. Stone smells more like hops. I may need to dry hop the Amarillo addition. The taste is really close. Mine has a stronger coffee tastes and is smoother. The stone beer has a more bitter taste, as well as more chocolate.

Going forward, I think I need to decrease the amount of coffee in my beer. I’m not sure if I need to increase the chocolate, or if the coffee is overpowering the chocolate flavor. I also think I need to dry hop the Amarillo to get more of that aroma and flavor. Finally, the stone beer has more head and slightly more mouthfeel, but I’m not sure what to do to fix that. If anyone has any ideas on what I should do, I’m all ears. I think my grain bill is pretty close, I just need to tweak the hops and other additions.

For what it’s worth, my wife liked my version better. I’m not convinced that I don’t agree with her.
 
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