Stiring my grains too much when steeping

[BellaBrewing]

When I steep my grains I stir and move the bag around. Should I just be leaving the bag sit in the 152 degree water. I do it most of the 20 minutes that they are steeping. I know it might not matter but I figured I would ask just in case. Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[bajaedition]

go any pop corn? time to get it out

If I am steeping grains I kind move them around a bit

 

[IslandLizard]

It's like steeping a large tea bag, agitation refreshes the water which dissolves and extracts the sugars and stuff, which is good.

Now if you were "mashing" in that bag, the story changes.

 

[Brownalemikie]

Towards the end of steeping I lift the bag out of the wort and let it drain then let the bag sink back into the wort. Same thing at the very end.....let bag drain all the wonderful juices.

 

[Lefou]

Compared to a simple steep in a small bag and walking away, mashing your grains in hot water and stirring will convert starches better and raise efficiency.

(comment for the advanced brewers, but information the new guys can use,, too...)
As an all grain guy who does extracts and partial mash, I've sometimes turned a portion of my wheat grains into flour when doing wheat beers. Why?
Even though it might increase the chance of clogging the spout on the mash tun, it can dissolve a bit of extra wheat into the water. I do a little but not all of my grain this way.
I find it helps sugar extraction. Online calculators and practical experience bears this out, especially if I treat my brewing water beforehand with amylase and CaCl2

 

[IslandLizard]

Compared to a simple steep in a small bag and walking away, mashing your grains in [...]

Although that's true, mashing a couple pounds of grain in 4 gallons of (hot) water with lots of agitation may not work as the enzymes become too much diluted in that huge water volume. Water to grain (mashing) ratios are typically kept between 1.0 and 2.0 quarts per pound. A simple undisturbed soak in that scenario is more beneficial until conversion is complete. Then dunk and rinse to your heart's content to knock all the sugars out of the grain into solution.

 

[IslandLizard]

[...]
(comment for the advanced brewers, but information the new guys can use,, too...)
As an all grain guy who does extracts and partial mash, I've sometimes turned a portion of my wheat grains into flour when doing wheat beers. Why?
Even though it might increase the chance of clogging the spout on the mash tun, it can dissolve a bit of extra wheat into the water. I do a little but not all of my grain this way.
I find it helps sugar extraction. Online calculators and practical experience bears this out, especially if I treat my brewing water beforehand with amylase and CaCl2

I do mill all flaked products, as well as small kernel grain (e.g., wheat, rye), separately on a tighter gap setting (0.024") for faster, more thorough conversion. It produces some flour which is fine. It never causes haze later.

But in most wheat beers I do add a couple tablespoons of wheat flour made into a slurry at the end of the boil to help keep those beers opaque. It still settles out in the keg though, over time.

Why add amylase? Your base malts should provide plenty of it.

 

[Lefou]

I added amylase because I've had low mash efficiency during my first all grain attempts. I figured out it was part personal method and the LBHS because they were grinding my grains for me. Never had that problem with extract beers for two reasons.
One, I was a noob and unaware of it for some time.
Second, water treatment and all grain was still a few months in the future and it took some time to learn possible solutions.

Oh, and one more thing ... not all base malts are created equal. Some ARE better than others for getting better conversions.

 

[IslandLizard]

I added amylase because I've had low mash efficiency during my first all grain attempts. I figured out it was part personal method and the LBHS because they were grinding my grains for me. Never had that problem with extract beers for two reasons.
One, I was a noob and unaware of it for some time.
Second, water treatment and all grain was still a few months in the future and it took some time to learn possible solutions.

Oh, and one more thing ... not all base malts are created equal. Some ARE better than others for getting better conversions.

Base malts provide plenty of amylase, a finer milled grist will allow the enzymes to get to the starches better and faster.

Sure, not all malts are the same, for example, most floor malts are undermodified, for a reason, and enzyme content is somewhat lower, but still self-converting and then some. Those aren't typically used with tons of adjuncts either.

 

[Lefou]

The differences in malted grain.... well, it's a pain figuring out sometimes.
With all the different providers, malting methods, locations and styles, and the lack of good technical data it can be confusing.

John Palmer, the Brulosophy guys ... they have some great info on conversion and the grain-to-water ratios. I'm still learning.

 

[bajaedition]

A point about adding amylase

you need to see what temperature the strain you are adding works at

I have bought Amylase that works at 122 degrees F and others that work at 150 degrees F

That is important, it would be a shame to add the enzyme thinking you are going to get benefit and then destroy it by using it at to high a temperature.

I know we have identified over 700 enzymes, how many of these are classified as Amylase I do not know, but it seems prudent to check the label on your vial you bought to check for optimum temperature to do the rest at.

Without a long discussion on biology, we need simply remember that industry can choose what Amylase enzyme to synthesize and sell, the temperature ranges we are used to quoting here are for the enzymes found in grains, these may not be the ones you are getting when you buy Amylase, so check your labels for temperature range.

normally we do not even consider a third class of enzymes when thinking about beer, the y-amylase. Enzymes are a fascinating biological study in themselves that can get deep real quick.