Step mash question

[MARCELO178]

I use castle malting. Which is a well modified malt. It is not recommended to do protein rest, unless I use more than 20% of unmalted grain or large amount of wheat malt.
If I use a small amount of wheat malt, like 3%-6% to enhance my head retention, is that ok to do a small protein rest like 10 minutes?

 

[MARCELO178]

The reason I am asking that is because I have been adding 5% of wheat malt in all my beers and I notice that the beers are more cloudy and the head in the first moment is very good, but fades away very quickly.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I use castle malting. Which is a well modified malt. It is not recommended to do protein rest, unless I use more than 20% of unmalted grain or large amount of wheat malt.
If I use a small amount of wheat malt, like 3%-6% to enhance my head retention, is that ok to do a small protein rest like 10 minutes?

Its really interesting. Check this out.

Brewers do not want a lot of longer chain proteins in their wort. A high level of big proteins can lead to haze and instability. However, brewers do want medium length protein chains because they are beneficial for a beer’s body and for foam retention. The optimal range for peptidase is between 113–128 °F (45–53 °C) while the optimal range for proteinase is 131–137 °F (55–58 °C). A 15–30 minute hold in the proteinase range was thought to diminish haze, but not negatively impact foam or body.

So if you want to do a protein rest 55 Celsius seems to be the target.

https://byo.com/mead/item/1497-the-science-of-step-mashing

Personally I don't like adding wheat because I think it does add some haze. I use carapils/dextrin instead which may not be entirely necessary.

Personally I have found that by extending the dextrinization rest (70-72 Celsius) I get excellent head retention without the need for adding wheat or even carapils/dextrin. You might like to try it. I got the idea from reading Braukaiser.

The dextrinization rest at 70-72C (158-162F) needs to be held until the mash is iodine negative but may be extended to 45-60 min. Many authors contribute head retention and mouthfeel benefits to extending this rest. Finally the mash may be raised to mash out temp and subsequently lautered.

- http://braukaiser.com/wiki/index.php?title=Infusion_Mashing

 

[MARCELO178]

Do you use protein rest at 55C? let´s say you are brewing a bitter (95% pale ale malt+ 5% crystal), would you do the protein rest?

 

[MSK_Chess]

Do you use protein rest at 55C? let´s say you are brewing a bitter (95% pale ale malt+ 5% crystal), would you do the protein rest?

No I would not bother. I would only really do a protein rest if the malt was under-modified or like you say you were using a large portion of adjuncts. I checked out Castle malting, their malts are well modified and technically do not need a protein rest. I would Mash at 65 Celsius for 45min and then Mash at 70 Celsius for 10-15 min and then do a mash-out at 75 Celsius for 10-15min being careful not to go over 76 Celsius.

Haze used to drive me crazy. Make sure that,

1. Hot break is good, solid rolling boil.
2. Use a kettle fining like Protofloc or Irish moss 15 min from end of boil.
3. Cool the wort as quickly as possible, try to get as close to 20 Celsius in 20 minutes from end of boil if you can
4. Cold crash after fermentation is complete and use a post fermentation fining like gelatin.

Also if you can make sure that mash Ph is good (5.2-5.5)
Acidify sparge water (mash Ph rises during sparge and can produce tannin extraction which can lead to haze)
Do not over sparge (this increases haze causing polyphenols immensely if you over sparge)

 

[MARCELO178]

Thanks for the tips!
I am going to brew a Pale Ale and try with 10 % wheat malt and do 10 minutes rest at 55 C. I will do a 8 L batch, so if it goes wrong it is not a big deal, I will post results and pictures of my nice or bad head.

 

[Lefou]

Don't forget your hops!

Hopping and IBU level is important, too. Hops contribute to your foam.
If you're doing a pale ale, make sure you use hops with enough alpha acid to get at least the minimum IBU rating for your beer.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Thanks for the tips!
I am going to brew a Pale Ale and try with 10 % wheat malt and do 10 minutes rest at 55 C. I will do a 8 L batch, so if it goes wrong it is not a big deal, I will post results and pictures of my nice or bad head.

Most welcome. I know some British Pale ales and Bitters use wheat, Black Sheep Ale and Black Sheep Best Bitter for example. Good luck and let us know how you get on

 

[65C]

Also if you can make sure that mash Ph is good (5.2-5.5)
Acidify sparge water (mash Ph rises during sparge and can produce tannin extraction which can lead to haze)
Do not over sparge (this increases haze causing polyphenols immensely if you over sparge)

I've only been using lactic acid to bring strike water down Ph from 7+ to 5.2

the sparge water I've been using is 7+, are you saying I should be bringing that down too? (I do get some haze but don't use any protofloc etc.)

what do you mean by over sparge?

 

[MSK_Chess]

I've only been using lactic acid to bring down Ph from 7+ to 5.2

the sparge water I've been using is 7+, are you saying I should be bringing that down too? (I do get some haze but don't use any protofloc etc.)

what do you mean by over sparge?

Lactic acid is great. I use that too when I run out of acid malt.

Yea I think you should also acidify the sparge water. My understanding is that as you sparge the mash pH rises.

A mash pH greater than 6.0 can leach harsh-tasting silicates, tannins, and polyphenols from the grain into the wort. To avoid increasing the mash pH during sparging, sparge water pH should be adjusted to between 5.5 and 6.0. - Bru'n'water - Copyright © 2015 Martin Brungard

Personally I think kettle finings like Protofloc are a must - you will be amazed when you see the proteins in your wort forming and separating from the unfermented wort and precipitating to the bottom of your boil kettle when you cool it rapidly.

 

[65C]

thanks - I've got some protofloc tablets arriving next week - I don't might the haze too much - but going to see what diff it makes on clearing - I'll try the ph change on the sparge for the next batch too

 

[MSK_Chess]

thanks - I've got some protofloc tablets arriving next week - I don't might the haze too much - but going to see what diff it makes on clearing - I'll try the ph change on the sparge for the next batch too

If you use Martins Bru'n'water software it automatically calculates the sparge additions for lactic acid. My water is pretty soft and I end up adding about as little as 1ml of lactic acid to it. Its so small that I have to add it with a pipette which has .2ml increments on it. I have an immersion chiller and I love to watch the protein separate as the wort cools. Not sure how it works on other systems like plate chillers or reverse chillers though.

here is a good picture of cold break with proteins coagulating and dropping of of suspension in the kettle.

 

[65C]

my wife got some medicine syringes - they do 5ml - really useful for small quantities

I've got some PH strips - 7ml of lactic in 12L gets me bang on 5.2 - I don't check it now - just trust my original calcs - also beer tasting fine

I am thinking of doing the next porter without any lactic just to see how it turns out - the off flavours I originally had which led me to sorting the ph turned out to be overheating yeast which I've fixed by using a spare fridge for the ferment - it's lowest setting is about 17C - much better brewing now

I would like to find a style that works with the local water without treating tbh (got a couple of black IPAs just bottled - and taste bloody great from the bottling bin - which may be the way to go)

thanks

 

[MARCELO178]

Last week I Brewed my Pale ale, my step schedule was:
15 min. at 55C (131F).
30min. at 65C (149F).
15 min. at 72C (161.5F)
I did BIAB, I notice 2 things.
First, my efficiency, 89%(my normal efficiency is 75%-80%).
Second, when I chilled the wort was very clear.
The beer is fermenting for 1 week now.

 

[MSK_Chess]

my wife got some medicine syringes - they do 5ml - really useful for small quantities

I've got some PH strips - 7ml of lactic in 12L gets me bang on 5.2 - I don't check it now - just trust my original calcs - also beer tasting fine

I am thinking of doing the next porter without any lactic just to see how it turns out - the off flavours I originally had which led me to sorting the ph turned out to be overheating yeast which I've fixed by using a spare fridge for the ferment - it's lowest setting is about 17C - much better brewing now

I would like to find a style that works with the local water without treating tbh (got a couple of black IPAs just bottled - and taste bloody great from the bottling bin - which may be the way to go)

thanks

7ml wow your water must be really quite hard. From what I understand most brewers with high levels of bicarbonate in their water boil it to precipitate some of the elements out. Its a great idea btw brewing beers which suit your local water. I used to struggle with dark beers. Do you know what your tap water water profile is? Most are available online and publicised by your local municipality. Would be really interesting to put in the numbers and see what a program like bru'n'water comes up with, from other accounts that I have read it seems that its very accurate.

 

[MSK_Chess]

Last week I Brewed my Pale ale, my step schedule was:
15 min. at 55C (131F).
30min. at 65C (149F).
15 min. at 72C (161.5F)
I did BIAB, I notice 2 things.
First, my efficiency, 89%(my normal efficiency is 75%-80%).
Second, when I chilled the wort was very clear.
The beer is fermenting for 1 week now.

sounds really great Marcelo, show us some pics when its finished