Stefan Shoemaker's Porter

[delcosansgluten]

Hey everyone. I want to brew a beer with sorghum extract and think the porter recipe below could be the way I go. However, I hate adding sugars to my beer so is there any way I can omit the molasses and belgian candi sugar? I brew with a mash and boil and it can tolerate 16lbs grain bills. I have to imagine some grains can give me the same effect as molasses and candi sugar. Any advice?

https://www.glutenfreehomebrewing.com/recipes/showrecipe.php?recipeid=10

 

[glutarded-chris]

I will give my 2 cents worth...

If you can mash up to 16 pounds of grain, why use any sorghum or added sugars? Once I went all grain, I never went back to use of any sugars, syrups or things like that. GF grain is so available now you can do almost anything if you can mash and do a full volume boil.

Molasses is a temperamental beast! Use too much and you get off flavors. I tried a few batches to get into stout territory and they came out ok, but don't use a lot of molasys. I would try to get the porter character from your mashed grain. I will post some threads if I can find them.

I would NOT use belgian candy "sugar", always use the "syrup". It is different! The "sugar" version is just sugar. The "syrup" version has gone through the maillard reaction and a level of carmalization. Lots of thread info on that also. You get color and flavor from the Belgian Candy Syrup.

 

[glutarded-chris]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/phat-tire-gluten-free-ale.443549/This is a recipe that I used molasses. Advice I got was to use only "unsulfured" molasses and use only a few ounces max.

Another partial mash I used trying to get lots of roasted grain character.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/gf-oatmeal-stout-partial-mash-recipe.507973/
Keep in mind that this was before the world was changed by Termamyl and later enzymes! I would do the mash very differently now!

 

[skleice]

I'm also in the all grain camp. I haven't used sorghum syrup in 3 years. There's just no comparison imo. If u can mash, do it!

 

[delcosansgluten]

@glutarded-chris @skleice thank you both for the inputs. I've never brewed with extracts and wanted to give it a try. After reviewing more recipes, I think I may just use up some of my leftover grains from the brown ale.

What do you both think of this recipe?
6lbs sorghum
2lbs crystal rice
1lbs biscuit rice

not sure which hops or yeast to go with though.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Are you steeping the grain or doing a "proper" mash with the grain including enzymes?

My basic advice for GF extracts is in recent post #6 of: Dry Rice Sugar use

I displace as much of the sorghum syrup as is practical. The sorghum syrup has decent FAN so it behaves but has the classic sorghum "twang".
Safale US-05 works well. I had good luck with Windsor, US-04 and Saflager W34/70 (fermented up to room temp).
I liked hop forward with Cascade, Amarillo, Columbus. I did not like Goldings or anything like it because, to my taste it did not pair well with the sorghum twang. Others may disagree.

 

[delcosansgluten]

Are you steeping the grain or doing a "proper" mash with the grain including enzymes?

My basic advice for GF extracts is in recent post #6 of: Dry Rice Sugar use

I displace as much of the sorghum syrup as is practical. The sorghum syrup has decent FAN so it behaves but has the classic sorghum "twang".
Safale US-05 works well. I had good luck with Windsor, US-04 and Saflager W34/70 (fermented up to room temp).
I liked hop forward with Cascade, Amarillo, Columbus. I did not like Goldings or anything like it because, to my taste it did not pair well with the sorghum twang. Others may disagree.

I am going to do a proper enzyme mash with the grains and then will add the sorghum post mash. I also decided not to go with the above recipe but instead went with a Chocolate Oatmeal Stout for my next brew.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Good plan. So then is your intent to first see what your yield from the mash is and then calculate your other syrup additions to hit your desired OG? What enzymes are you using for your mash?

 

[delcosansgluten]

Good plan. So then is your intent to first see what your yield from the mash is and then calculate your other syrup additions to hit your desired OG? What enzymes are you using for your mash?

Termamyl and Sebamyl are my enzymes. Next batch ill grab ceremix and ondea. I was going to mash for 1 hour, add the extracts and boil per normal. Any things I should be aware of?

 

[glutarded-chris]

For ondea pro and ceremix flex, I recommend wathing this video starting 39 minutes into the video:


For your mash regiment using Termamyl and Sebamyl, are you using the typical falling temperature mash where you mash in with Termamyl and do an initial rest at 170F or so and then drop to 140F to 150F for the one hour rest with Sebamyl? I think that will be fine for the partial mash and makes the mash go quickly. By itself, my experience is that Termamyl will over-attenuate but it works soooo well. With a partial mash using sorghum as your syrup base, Termamy&Sebmyl might be the best opition because the sorghum syrup fermentables will likely keep it from finishing too low.

When you go back to all grain, and I expect you will, the best would be to use the Ondea&Ceremix and do a rising temp mash if you can do the rising temp mash with your setup.

 

[skleice]

Agreed. You will see quite an improvement after switching to Ondea and Ceramix. The ondea creates a much more desirable wort with more dextrins and fewer simple sugars. This leads to more body and better head retention.

If you can't step mash, you can also use Ondea with Termamyl if you add it after dropping down to 145ish°.

 

[delcosansgluten]

For your mash regiment using Termamyl and Sebamyl, are you using the typical falling temperature mash where you mash in with Termamyl and do an initial rest at 170F or so and then drop to 140F to 150F for the one hour rest with Sebamyl?

Yes, this is my plan for the mash, thanks again for the guidance!!

 

[KyBeer]

I have done several GF brews over a year ago. I have an aged Porter that beats any porter I've ever made. The aging took the edge off the sorghum twang. I used a kit from a gluten free web site, Roco Creak something. Tried to buy sorghum in bulk and make my own with only fair results. The adjuncts in low quantities were difficult to find. I did noticed the fermentation took longer, almost two weeks with US05.
Now I just add "Clarity Firm" from White Labs when brewing reduced GF beers. I make a beer very close to Stone Delicious IPA . I like IPAs and it says it is gluten reduced. I can only drink about two regular gluten beers when I go out with friends, but Stone Delicious IPA lets me drink a bit more.

 

[glutarded-chris]

Aging definitely helps! The few batches that I did toward Porter or Stout had to spend some time to mellow. No matter if sorghum is in there or not. I found fermentation took a little longer, clearing took a little longer and carbonation had to be more firm. I bow to more experienced dark batch brewers because I have only done a few to prove to myself that I could get close. I prefer pale ales and lagers.

If you have an autoimune response to gluten, it is more of an "injury" than a brief sickness so don't mess around with gluten reduced at all! Very different from lactose intolerance or other such conditions where once the symptoms fade you are all set to go. If you have the autoimune response associated with celiac, the damage has to heal before you return to "normal". Therefore, every poisoning is additive and NOT GOOD! Best to follow complete avoidance of ingredients that contain gluten. Clarity Firm breaks up the gluten chains so that they don't register on the gluten tests, but there is a concern that the molicule fragments that remain could still trigger the autoimune response that causes the damage. My advice is to follow the Zero Tolerance philosophy!