Steeping too hot

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martinfan30

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I know releases tannins, but I found my thermometer was off by 20 degrees.

I found i actually steeped 3 pounds of crystal 30, 90 and caramalt for 30 minutes. At 190! Did I just ruin this??
 
I know releases tannins, but I found my thermometer was off by 20 degrees.


NO it dosen't...
As long as you didnt boil it I think you are fine.

No it doesn't matter if he boiled or not....

You both "heard" somehting that was only half understood, and keeps getting passed around like it's cannon, when really it's an over simplifaction of something more complicated....Like someone keeps handing around the same half finished puzzel, as a finished work or art, and not realizing there's an entire part of the picture missing.

We really need to quit perpetuating this answer that is reptead rotely with very little understand..."I heard somewhere" is not a good enough reason to keep repeating something if you have no real understanding of what you're talking about. Read this, it pertains to both tannin myths Boiling and steeping.

Here's a detailed explanation.

There's no reason not to squeeze.....that's another old brewer's myth that has been misunderstood...and has been shot down..But if often just get's repeated as ROTE without anyone stopping to look beyond the just repeating the warning...

Read this https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/do-you-squeeze-bag-biab-177051/?highlight=squeeze

And this.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/squeezing-grain-bag-bad-175179/?highlight=squeeze

From Aussie Homebrewer.com

Tannins And Astringency

If you are worried about squeezing your bag too much or crushing too fine, relax! Astringent beers do not come from finely crushed or squeezed husks but come rather from a combination of high temperatures and high pH. These conditions pull the polyhenols out of the husk. The higher your pH and the higher temperature you expose your grain to, the worse the problem becomes. Any brewer, traditional or BIAB, should never let these conditions arrive. If you do allow these conditions to arrive, then you will find yourself in exactly the same position as a traditional brewer. Many commercial breweries actually hammer mill their grain to powder for use in mash filter systems because they have control of their pH and temperatures. This control (and obviously expensive complex equipment) allows them non-astringent beers and “into kettle,” efficiencies of over 100%.

As long as you keep your steeping temps below 170, you won't be producing those supposed tannins that folks blindly say you would be squeezing out.

1) If your PH is off, or your steeping/mashing temp is above 170, your beer will extract tanins from the husks whether you squeeze or not

2) If your PH is ok, and your temps were below 170, squeeze away!

There's been some tests that have disproved the whole "don't squeeze the grain bag, because you will leech tannins" idea. I think there's even been a couple experiments on here detailed in threads. I think it's been pretty well shot down as one of those "old school" beliefs, that turn out to have little effect.

In fact if you are doing AG "Brew in a Bag" you are encouraged to squeeze the grain bag. They even showed it on basic brewing recently, the took a ladder with a hook attached, hung the grain bag, and twisted the hell out of it to drain every ounce of precious wort out of bag of grain.

This should launch as an mp-4

http://media.libsyn.com/media/basicbrewing/bbv01-16-10cornpils.mp4

So is that's the case, that it is "OK" to do in AG Brew in the bag, then why would it really be bad in extract with grains brewing?

I wouldn't worry about it.

From BYO, MR Wizard;

The two most influential factors affecting the extraction of tannins from malt into wort are pH and temperature. All-grain brewers are very careful not to allow wort pH to reach more than about pH 6 during sparging because tannin extraction increases with pH. In all-grain brewing wort pH typically rises during the last stages of wort collection and is one of the factors letting the brewer know that wort collection should be stopped.....

Temperature also affects tannin extraction. This relationship is pretty simple. If you don’t want to run the risk of getting too much tannin in your wort, keep the temperature just below 170° F.

This is where the answer to your last question begins. You ask whether steeping and sparging released "unwanted tannins" in your beer. For starters, all beer contains tannins. Some tannins are implicated in haze and some lend astringent flavors to beer.

The type most homebrewers are concerned about are those affecting flavor. In any case, it is up to the brewer to decide if the level of tannins in their beer is too high. The (in)famous decoction mash is frequently recommended when a brewer is in search of more malt flavor. Decoction mashes boil malt and — among analytical brewers who are not afraid of rocking the boat with unpopular ideas — are known to increase the astringent character associated with tannins. In general I wouldn’t consider 170° F dangerously high with respect to tannin extraction. However, if you believe your beers may suffer because of too much astringency, consider adjusting your steep pH and lowering the temperature a few degrees.

They are often repeated ad nauseum by, especially new brewers, with little know understanding of the context behind them...or even a basic thinking like, "how come it says not to boil your grains, yet people doing decotion mashing do it all the time?" or "They say not to squeeze their grain bag, but in Brew in a Bag- they are encouraged to squeeze them...so what's going on here?."


It's the same with boiling your grains... posted a detailed discussion of the "chestnut" here; https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/less-than-satisfied-my-first-brew-224679/#post2639410

(There are actually a number of instances where what's been told about that is actually done in all grain brewing....)

In fact I'm boiling my grains right here (It's called decocting) ;)

59448_434057434066_620469066_5122018_4799406_n.jpg


I think this should be hung and posted in Every new brewers brew closet.
 
What caught my eye is the three pounds of crystal malt. What are you brewing??? Sounds like Caramel Ale. :D

Pez.

EDIT - I now rinse my steeping grains with half a gallon of hot water after steeping. I admit to being surpised how much color came out of the grain bag with rinsing, even after I tried squeezing it. It is just my opinion, but I think rinsing does a better job of getting out all the good stuff. Pez.
 
But you muddied it up citing the boiling fallacy...

So we should boil our steeping grains on purpose? Since many if not most extract brewers don't check Ph, how can the advice not to boil steeping grains be wrong? What do we gain by boiling steeping grains?
Pez.
 
So we should boil our steeping grains on purpose? Since many if not most extract brewers don't check Ph, how can the advice not to boil steeping grains be wrong? What do we gain by boiling steeping grains?
Pez.

The point is, that if you boil your steeping grains (some do by accident,) you don't need to stress out and AUTOMATICALLY believe you've extracted tannins...It's another one of those brewers boogeymen...In fact as I talked about in my post...often we boil on purpose in all grain, it's called doing a decoction mash...If it's not a concern during Ag brewing it really shouldn't be something to stress out about in extract brewing...JUST LIKE, with that old "Don't squeeze the grainbag" nonsense....AG biab brewers do it all the time...so again whenever people start a thread freaking out that they squeezed the bag on their first extract batch which folks do all the time, it's also nothing to stress out about.

If we stop perpetuating these hackneyed little understood bogeymen, then just maybe there'd be less panicky new brewers thinking they ruined their beer because they've done something that they keep hearing is bad for their beer, when it's a rare situation that it happens.
 
The point is, that if you boil your steeping grains (some do by accident,) you don't need to stress out and AUTOMATICALLY believe you've extracted tannins...It's another one of those brewers boogeymen...In fact as I talked about in my post...often we boil on purpose in all grain, it's called doing a decoction mash...If it's not a concern during Ag brewing it really shouldn't be something to stress out about in extract brewing...JUST LIKE, with that old "Don't squeeze the grainbag" nonsense....AG biab brewers do it all the time...so again whenever people start a thread freaking out that they squeezed the bag on their first extract batch which folks do all the time, it's also nothing to stress out about.

If we stop perpetuating these hackneyed little understood bogeymen, then just maybe there'd be less panicky new brewers thinking they ruined their beer because they've done something that they keep hearing is bad for their beer, when it's a rare situation that it happens.

Jeez Revy, no one said anything about squeezin no bags.
 
Jeez Revy, no one said anything about squeezin no bags.

Jeez Pezmen, don'tcha know that the two most off repeated myths about tannins that folks always want to pass on are "Don't boil your grains" or "Don't Squeeze the grain bag?" I'm just sayin, we need to stop spreading BOTH of them so easily....
 
I'm just sayin, NO ONE said anthing about squeezing bags. No bad advice was given to the OP. NO one spread any fallacies. No one needed to be lectured. Pez.
 
Pezman1 said:
I'm just sayin, NO ONE said anthing about squeezing bags. No bad advice was given to the OP. NO one spread any fallacies. No one needed to be lectured. Pez.

Thank you!
 
I was trying to tell him it will be just fine, not give him a two hour dissertation on why he will be fine.

Think about it this way, maybe if you hadn't brought up boiling, a "2 hour dissertation," as you call it, wouldn't have been necessary....I'm sorry if your ego is too frail to have someone clarify some inaccurate info. But we tend to want the best, most accurate advice on here, not just for the OP but for anyone down the line who might be freaked out and searching for info, who might not even post, rather than just perpetuating a myth, we want to make sure only good info comes out.

I mean, don't YOU want the most accurate info, when you're looking something up? I sure as hell do.
 
Revvy said:
Think about it this way, maybe if you hadn't brought up boiling, a "2 hour dissertation," as you call it, wouldn't have been necessary....I'm sorry if your ego is too frail to have someone clarify some inaccurate info. But we tend to want the best, most accurate advice on here, not just for the OP but for anyone down the line who might be freaked out and searching for info, who might not even post, rather than just perpetuating a myth, we want to make sure only good info comes out.

For me it has nothing to do with ego. My ego does not require me to flame people for making a statement that I do not agree with. I am sure your ego will not understand that most people are not as impressed with you as you are.
 
For me it has nothing to do with ego. My ego does not require me to flame people for making a statement that I do not agree with. I am sure your ego will not understand that most people are not as impressed with you as you are.

Noone's flaming you pal....I was just clarifying for the op, and anyone else who might lurk, some inaccurate information, nothing more. That's what we do here. Clear up misinformation. Sorry if you and your new friend can't handle it.

*shrug*
 
Actually, I was worried about steeping my grain. I squeezed the bad and was scared. Thanks revy for the awesome reply...as always!
 
What caught my eye is the three pounds of crystal malt. What are you brewing??? Sounds like Caramel Ale. :D

Pez.

EDIT - I now rinse my steeping grains with half a gallon of hot water after steeping. I admit to being surpised how much color came out of the grain bag with rinsing, even after I tried squeezing it. It is just my opinion, but I think rinsing does a better job of getting out all the good stuff. Pez.


LOL! Im still pretty new to brewing(a year doing mr b stuff), just bought some stuff from Williams Brewing to upgrade. Thought I'd give the LHBS beer of the month recipe a try.

An Irish Red Ale,

6.6# Sparkling Amber LME
1# Crystal Malt 20L
1# Crystal Malt 120L
1# Cara Red
2 oz Goldings (30 min/5 min)
Wyeast Irish Ale yeast

1.045 OG

Heres my stock right now.

1329677406.jpg


Irish Red, German Ale, Belgian Tripple
 
LOL! Im still pretty new to brewing(a year doing mr b stuff), just bought some stuff from Williams Brewing to upgrade. Thought I'd give the LHBS beer of the month recipe a try.

An Irish Red Ale,

6.6# Sparkling Amber LME
1# Crystal Malt 20L
1# Crystal Malt 120L
1# Cara Red
2 oz Goldings (30 min/5 min)
Wyeast Irish Ale yeast

1.045 OG

Heres my stock right now.

1329677406.jpg


Irish Red, German Ale, Belgian Tripple

I'm fixin to buy a Williams oxygen system with the stainless steel wand and 02 regulator. Tired of shakin and all.....

Wyeast Irish Ale is one of my faves, never had a bad experience with it. It does leave a bit of diaceytl, but it is supposed to.

I have a Midwest Irish Stout/ Wyeat Irish Ale in the fridge right now. Mmmmmm....

Pez.
 
Cool. I'm pretty happy with their stuff except the plastic fermenters aren't sit tight. That's why I sealed them with electrical tape.
 
I steeped my grains too hot, around 190 also. It's a wheat beer and definitely has an astringent taste. Does that taste go away or mellow over time?

Any info appreciated. This is my second batch.
 
FWIW, I did this last weekend (steeped @ 170 for 35min), and was concerned all week because the smell coming from the FV was very "alcohol-ly". Just checked my gravity and took a taste and everything seems to be OK. The taste is very strong and bitter, but no "off" flavors (bananas, band-aids, etc).
 
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